kai
ragamuffin
a new thread all about the "challenge"
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/82775-challenge-quran.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/82775-challenge-quran.html
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Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study
- Thread starter Fatihah
- Start date
Response: And once again, the challenge is dodged. Thus showing more evidence to the qur'an's authenticity. 1400+ years and counting....
Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?
siddqqeeutube
Member
hi evryone,i,m a muslim..praise be to Allah for having someone like Fatihah..u go man..tell them the truth about our prophet protect him from slander from the ignorence.
Well Fatihah,the proof is it was written by a Humans hand,have you any proof it was written by someone else? if you have i'll sign up at the nearest Mosque.
Response: Shurkran, dear friend. Jazak'Allah.
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Response: Yes, it was written by human hands, yet you won't use your human hands to answer the challenge and show that it is humanly possible for someone to produce a chapter like the qur'an. The proof is at your fingertips. If you have nothing to hide, you would answer the challenge. The fact that you'll use those hands to respond to this post but won't do the same in answering the challenge is becoming very obvious.
OK,what if i cannot answer the challenge,in what way does it prove that the Quran is a divine miracle? or from a divine entity,for one i am at a disadvantage as i cannot read or write Arabic or know the criteria for the challenge,so really the challenge does nothing to prove anything so its just a matter of what you believe.
Response: It's not about writing a book in arabic. You can write it in any language you want. I've explained the specific miracle before. So once again, here it is as presented in another thread:
" It is a common response that everytime this challenge is stated, someone responds with something like, "can you produce something like Shakespere or a symphony like Beethoven? If not, does this mean that they are prophets of God?"
So before the thread is filled with those type of responses, let me explain further. The challenge is to produce a chapter "like" the qur'an. Therefore, it does not mean to simply write something in arabic and think you've accomplished something. What is the qur'an? Well what is any religous scripture? It is supposed to be inspiration from God. It's purpose is to inspire people to follow its teachings. So to produce a chapter like the qur'an means to produce a chapter as inspirational and as successful as the qur'an.
So what's the purpose of that? Well by doing so, you learn the miracle of the qur'an. And what is that miracle? The miracle is the following:
It is impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation.
This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. This is a challenge for those who claim that the religion of islam is man made. Muhammad used a religion to inspired enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get? And when you do, you will fail. Not only will you will fail, you will fail miserably. Muhammad conquered Arabia. I guarantee you, you won't even be able to conquer your own neighborhood. And once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself the question "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me and anyone else?" That is when you will come to realize that it was the help of Allah that made it possible for Muhammad. Without Allah, even Muhammad would have failed. You disagree, the 1400+ year challenge still stands."
I can see it working 1400 years ago when people had less education and savvy so you are right i would fail to make up a religion and go invading other countries but back then i think with the promise of booty it would have been easily attainable.
The one gaping hole in the challenge is there is no proof behind it,the Quran which is very simmilar to the books of the bible (some say a rough copy) has no evidence that it came from anyone but Muhammed.
It could also be argued that the challenge has been met and surpassed by the book of Musa,did'nt your Prophet say something along the lines of why did'nt a book such as Musa's get sent down to me.
The way i had the challenge explained to me was it had to be 3 lines in Arabic prose but unique.
The one gaping hole in the challenge is there is no proof behind it,the Quran which is very simmilar to the books of the bible (some say a rough copy) has no evidence that it came from anyone but Muhammed.
It could also be argued that the challenge has been met and surpassed by the book of Musa,did'nt your Prophet say something along the lines of why did'nt a book such as Musa's get sent down to me.
The way i had the challenge explained to me was it had to be 3 lines in Arabic prose but unique.
(QUOTE England my lionheart) I can see it working 1400 years ago when people had less education and savvy so you are right i would fail to make up a religion and go invading other countries but back then i think with the promise of booty it would have been easily attainable.(End quote)
Response: But there's a problem there. You admit that you couldn't do it (thanks for the honesty) but then you say that back then, the promise of booty might have made it easily attainable. But where's the proof?
(Quote England my lionheart)
The one gaping hole in the challenge is there is no proof behind it,the Quran which is very simmilar to the books of the bible (some say a rough copy) has no evidence that it came from anyone but Muhammed.(End quote)
Response: But it does and that's proven in the challenge. You have not proven that it's humanly possible to produce a chapter like the qur'an's and have admitted that you would fail the challenge. So if it's not humanly possible, then Muhammad didn't produce it because Muhammad is a human.
(Quote England my lionheart)
It could also be argued that the challenge has been met and surpassed by the book of Musa,did'nt your Prophet say something along the lines of why did'nt a book such as Musa's get sent down to me.
The way i had the challenge explained to me was it had to be 3 lines in Arabic prose but unique.(End quote)
Response: If you're talking about Musa the prophet, yes He has done what the prophet has done. But that's because he himself was a prophet. That's the point. You're not a prophet. I'm not a prophet. Only a prophet would be able to accomplish the miracle.
Response: But there's a problem there. You admit that you couldn't do it (thanks for the honesty) but then you say that back then, the promise of booty might have made it easily attainable. But where's the proof?
(Quote England my lionheart)
The one gaping hole in the challenge is there is no proof behind it,the Quran which is very simmilar to the books of the bible (some say a rough copy) has no evidence that it came from anyone but Muhammed.(End quote)
Response: But it does and that's proven in the challenge. You have not proven that it's humanly possible to produce a chapter like the qur'an's and have admitted that you would fail the challenge. So if it's not humanly possible, then Muhammad didn't produce it because Muhammad is a human.
(Quote England my lionheart)
It could also be argued that the challenge has been met and surpassed by the book of Musa,did'nt your Prophet say something along the lines of why did'nt a book such as Musa's get sent down to me.
The way i had the challenge explained to me was it had to be 3 lines in Arabic prose but unique.(End quote)
Response: If you're talking about Musa the prophet, yes He has done what the prophet has done. But that's because he himself was a prophet. That's the point. You're not a prophet. I'm not a prophet. Only a prophet would be able to accomplish the miracle.
chandrawasih
New Member
Easy. Current morality of mankind speaks a lot of the validity of the prophets.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
He was a warrior and butcher of men...if history is right
Of course from an esoteric view he was a perfected man...
but that's too much info for most here to understand lol
I don't think the morality of mankind has changed throught history
Response: Yes, he was a warrior and a butcher of men. All for the right causes.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
the right cause?
....
I think of my motherland, Cambodia, like an invocation I’d give to the world,
dreaming that by the year 2000,
peace will truly come to this wounded nation of mass genocide and violence.
I think of her becoming a land of gardens, a rain forest of air and life, a
country of forgiveness and compassion.
She win to give will represent understanding beyond borders
and become a peace maker of neighboring conflicts with the Vietnamese the Thais and ourselves.
All her children will have a childhood, a generation with both parents
alive and siblings to play with. No child will be forced to hold a
gun for someone else’s political or economic greed.
All the land mines will have been destroyed from the land her
people farm to eat. All land mines banned from the world.
There will be playgrounds instead of war zones.
There will be more schools instead of brothels and nightclubs.
The children will sing songs of joy instead of terror.
They will leam how to read love instead of hate.
And each child will have enough to eat and clean water to drink.
My homeland will be green again-she will sprout seeds of peace into
spring blossoms of love and joy. Her tropical trees will be left unlogged.
Her abundant fruit shared. Her forests an earthly paradise. She will be serene,
beautiful, and full of charms like the statues carved on her temple walls,
filled with peace and hiding. smiles. Her people will have been made strong
and wise from all the suffering they have endured. The bigger and more wealthy
countries will stop selling her arms to kill her own people.
They will become good role models for her political and spiritual development.
They will respect her as an equal and love her as their own sister.
Those nations with skills to share, friendship to gain,
and love to give will sincerely come to help her,
give her encouragement, and provide her with the support
needed to keep her people growing trees instead of cutting
them down to pay their debt.
I think of Cambodia as one nation loved, one nation healed and freed from war and hate.
Imagine the earth with all nations loved and treated when sick or diseased.
Imagine families of people willing to share, to understand and learn from each other.
Imagine all the wisdom and the experiences that we could gather to make
our planet one home and ourselves one people, united in our diversity.
Imagine-
Chath Piersath. Habitat for Humanity International, Cambodia
siddqqeeutube
Member
Hi cheese...fatihah must be tired entertaining people like u....reason for yourself this comment by thomas carlyle.."the lies which well meaning zeal has heaped around this man(muhammed) are disgraceful to ourselves only"...if u get all those crooked info from the christian books,what do u expect to learn?
siddqqeeutube
Member
check also these comments about muhammed saw ... ..most influential man in history(michael m hart).......most sucessful of all religious personalities(encyclopedia britanica 11th ed.)........greatest leader of all time(jules masserman in "time" magazine)........the greatest man that ever lived(lamartine in "history of the turks".......