Muhammed on South Park

[.lava]

The Qur'an is a work of man. It is one man's interpretation of God, which is riddled with inconsistancies, as expected from a falable work. I do not know why the faithful need to believe in an inerrant work from God. Maybe it is a desire to grasp the absolute that gives comfort. Perhaps it is the same line of thought that Russians have which leads them to choose strong leader who brings stability. A world where there are absolutes is a lot easier than one in which you must create your own purpose.

we believe in different things which is fine i personally don't see many "absolutes" in life. seems at the end our last trace remains and i would call that absolute. other than that only absolute i know is God itself

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[.lava]

And some Westerners believe they are at war with Islam. There is a name for such Westerners. "Idiots".

lol it is a known mindset and it is not owned by Western alone. looks like the same mindset exist in every nation and every group. majority of the rest are people who would not research, just accept and believe whatever is put infront of them and drifted wherever they are led

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[.lava]

Today... I would personally not compare them. The Nazis where a lot worse then any of the parts involved in the current conflict. But they are a proof of one thing. It does not matter what religion you are of, there will always be someone somewhere that will come up with a reason to kill you. Even if you are of the same religion. It is one of the darker aspects of humanity I guess, an aspect I for one cannot say I am a fan of.

i agree. i am not a fan of it either

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[Sunstone]

What exactly do you mean by war with Islam? Do you mean mindless patriotic "towel head" hating jarheads who want all Muslims killed? No argument here that they are idiots, and are just as much a problem as the terrorist extremists. (The irony and hypocrisy of which they cannot see is only proof of how stupid they are.)

However, I am at war with Islam in the sense that I am opposed, and find worth fighting with dialogue and debate, any ideology that has a harmful effect on scietific progress, education, and flat out acceptance, as well as tries to oppress the freedom of people who do not share its beliefs. Does that make me an "idiot?" Once again, not all Muslims, and Christians for that matter, fall under the category of believers that cause these problems because of their faith, but that doesn't stop the religions themselves from containing aspects that necessarily lead to these problems.

I don't think you're an idiot.

 

[*Anne*]

just like I feel criticism of political and religious elements in my nation should always be active, I do not want to see the criticism methods in other nations being countered with unsophisticated violence, and the very idea that religious and social themes are beyond human criticism is troubling.

*nods*

I've considered the possibility that my reaction is an overreaction. But then I think of the old saying, "Give 'em an inch, and they'll take a mile." When it comes to censorship induced by the threat of violence, I don't want to give so much as a centimeter.

 

[Commoner]

i am sorry. i don't understand what you're asking me. any example from verses that we should follow word by word?

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Ah, I was refering to this(in bold):

something wrong with that kind of "thinking"? i believe you are being nice cos it is not thinking at all. that's not how we live or experience religion. we do ask questions. we have to. majority would assume faith is blind. i think not. while you still have your intellect, following something else blindly is not even humane. intellect is a tool for us and it has to be used. there are somethings beyond my intellect, for sure. there i would hold on to my faith. but what we are talking about is not really beyond human mind.

Can you give me an example of such a thing - something you would have to take on faith?

I can certainly think of things I don't understand, but I can not think of anything I would need to use faith for and how that faith would come from any sort of scripture. When I don't understand something, I just say: "I don't know" and keep looking. Why would you want to replace "I don't know" with an answer you can't possibly understand - faith?

 

[.lava]

Ah, I was refering to this(in bold):



Can you give me an example of such a thing - something you would have to take on faith?

I can certainly think of things I don't understand, but I can not think of anything I would need to use faith for and how that faith would come from any sort of scripture. When I don't understand something, I just say: "I don't know" and keep looking. Why would you want to replace "I don't know" with an answer you can't possibly understand - faith?

how there's God, i can not understand. it is beyond my intellect. but other than that i don't have many examples because in my personal journey i haven't reached dead line of my intellect yet which means i could keep learning and just like you do i would say "i don't know" till i understand. but i don't think i could ever understand how there's a God, who's not created, no end no begining...etc. so it is more like difference between unknown and unknowable. unknown i can learn and understand as long as my intellect lets me but unknowable, that, i can never understand

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[Commoner]

how there's God, i can not understand. it is beyond my intellect. but other than that i don't have many examples because in my personal journey i haven't reached dead line of my intellect yet which means i could keep learning and just like you do i would say "i don't know" till i understand. but i don't think i could ever understand how there's a God, who's not created, no end no begining...etc. so it is more like difference between unknown and unknowable. unknown i can learn and understand as long as my intellect lets me but unknowable, that, i can never understand
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But isn't that kind of an unnecessary spot you're putting yourself in? Why would you assert there is a God and then try to understand how that's possible, instead of just starting with "I don't know if there is a God"? In every other case - you start with "I don't know", just not when it comes to God. Why is that?

 

[Luminous]

i am unsure if Nazis are good example here. if it really is, then who's in the place of Nazis? Iraqis or American? besides, entire Europe did fight against them because they suffered from them. seems Ira did not offer suffering to Western enough

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The United States only got involved because the Nazi's wanted to spread their ridiculous proposition throughout the world by force and coersion. they were planing to allie with Mexico and take us on.

 

[.lava]

But isn't that kind of an unnecessary spot you're putting yourself in? Why would you assert there is a God and then try to understand how that's possible, instead of just starting with "I don't know if there is a God"? In every other case - you start with "I don't know", just not when it comes to God. Why is that?

lol i am not saying i have doubts there is a God. i know there is, i just can not explain how

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[.lava]

The United States only got involved because the Nazi's wanted to spread their ridiculous proposition throughout the world by force and coersion. they were planing to allie with Mexico and take us on.

that's the part of world history that i am not very aware of. i did not know Nazis wanted to allie with Mexicans against USA. interesting. thank you for sharing

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[Commoner]

lol i am not saying i have doubts there is a God. i know there is, i just can not explain how

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You do? Well, maybe this is my lucky day when I dodge the eternal hellfire!

May I ask how you know? And if you do know there is a god, why would you then replace the "I don't know how to explain it" with any kind of faith position?

 

[Eliot Wild]

You do? Well, maybe this is my lucky day when I dodge the eternal hellfire!

May I ask how you know? And if you do know there is a god, why would you then replace the "I don't know how to explain it" with any kind of faith position?

I like this question.

I process questions by posing them to myself initially. Isn't that the way a rational mind works? We first determine an answer before asserting a position. If I believe God exists, then I should at least be able to explain it to myself, even if I lack the articulative skills to express it someone else.

I guess my point is this, if we believe we have satisfied for our own mind justification/validation for God, wouldn't we be able in progression to articulate that proof to another?

 

[.lava]

You do? Well, maybe this is my lucky day when I dodge the eternal hellfire!

May I ask how you know? And if you do know there is a god, why would you then replace the "I don't know how to explain it" with any kind of faith position?

i wish you never felt pain, Commoner. and no, this is an ordinary day lol i am not willing to talk about it. i consider that to be my privacy. basically between me and God. but generally speaking, i know it from my experiences.
"i don't know how to explain it" it is an example for what's beyond my intellect. i am not able to understand and to think about it because my mind stops. i'll think of another example for you

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[Commoner]

i wish you never felt pain, Commoner. and no, this is an ordinary day lol i am not willing to talk about it. i consider that to be my privacy. basically between me and God. but generally speaking, i know it from my experiences.
"i don't know how to explain it" it is an example for what's beyond my intellect. i am not able to understand and to think about it because my mind stops. i'll think of another example for you

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Got it. We're getting off topic anyway (not that I care)

I don't think you'll be able to think of an example, though. But give it a shot!

Until then, I'll stand firmly on my position that faith is never the best answer.

 

[.lava]

Got it. We're getting off topic anyway (not that I care)

I don't think you'll be able to think of an example, though. But give it a shot!

Until then, I'll stand firmly on my position that faith is never the best answer.

faith is answer to what exactly? to me, faith is the result, not the reason, specially in the beginning

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[Alceste]

yes, that's common sense and imo right thing to do would be ignoring anything that leads you to negativity. but that does make certain fact go away. this is not the first time. everybody already knows. nobody's mocking Prophet unknowingly, nobody's ignorant of this subject.

The point is, secular people do not agree that any ideology is above satire, mockery or criticism. If the creators of South Park are willing to put their lives on the line for this principle it reflects only upon the extremism of certain Muslims, not on the secular ideology of West. They haven't done any violence to anyone, yet they might be murdered by Muslims because of something they wrote. Yes, they know it. But that only means that if it happens they will become "martyrs" of the ideology of free speech to us.

i am sorry. i personally find all of it pathetic and inhumane, including those who use soft spot of Muslims in the name of free speech and throw more wood into fire that, one way or another, burns us all

I don't agree. The principle of free speech is completely meaningless if people are not allowed to use it if somebody somewhere might be offended. Nobody could say anything. Even Muslims would not be allowed to say anything for fear of being murdered by evolutionists.

Would you rather live in a world where people of conflicting ideologies simply murder each other to shut each other up, or a world where people's opinions are freely expressed and the most convincing argument wins the hearts of the people without any violence, or threat of violence?

In the West, we prefer the latter.

 

[Beaudreaux]

i am not willing to talk about it. i consider that to be my privacy. basically between me and God.
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You wish to keep your reason for believing in God a secret? That's cool with me, though it seems unusual. Most believers are trying to tell me why I should believe in God. I have to say it's kind of refreshing to meet a believer who does not care if i believe or not.

 

[monta]

I don't agree. The principle of free speech is completely meaningless if people are not allowed to use it if somebody somewhere might be offended. Nobody could say anything. Even Muslims would not be allowed to say anything for fear of being murdered by evolutionists.

People bang on and on about their rights, I have the right to do this that and the other and I never here anyone talking about their corresponding responsibilities. Yes there is a right to free speech in the US but surely you have the duty to excercise that right with some modicum of respect for the dignity of other people.

 

[Beaudreaux]

People bang on and on about their rights, I have the right to do this that and the other and I never here anyone talking about their corresponding responsibilities. Yes there is a right to free speech in the US but surely you have the duty to excercise that right with some modicum of respect for the dignity of other people.

Absolutely not!!!! The right of free speech does not exist to protect popular or respectful speech. Such types of speech do not NEED to be protected. It is unpopular, radical ideas that need to be protected by our constitution. Our comics and pudits MUST be able to make biting, undiluted criticisms of our public figures without any penalty imposed. The Ku Klux Klan MUST be allowed to express their ideas. Neo-Nazis, atheists, Christians, Muslims even NAMBLA ABSOLUTELY MUST be allowed freedom of speech. Without a free, and I mean totally free exchange of ideas, freedom dies.