Muhammed on South Park

[seraphim81]

And what is the limit? Who decides?

Good point:sorry1:

Controversy: can''t live with it, can't live without it:no:

 

[JMorris]

exceptions to freedom of speech/expression (monta >_< ):

screaming fire in a crowded movie theater
joking about bombs on an airplane
saying or drawing ANYTHING that could be interpreted as insulting about muhammed

doing any of these things can result in panic, accidental injury, or beheadings.

 

[seraphim81]

That too is also a good point Jmorris

 

[Commoner]

Just so you know my nitpicking *** is laughing heartily at the irony of your statement on 2 wonderful levels, firstly I was mocking Jmorris in a friendly way, for ''schooling'' .lava on free speech, but doing so incorrectly, and secondly pointing out that some of the people in this thread, who are freneticlally screaming about how their constitutional rights are being curtailed don't know what the **** they are talking about isn't nitpicking. On some matters ambiguity is not acceptable.

Irony is a funny little thing. Your comment reminded me of a poster (who shall remain unnamed) who used to insist on correcting anyone who would write "I said" instead of "I wrote" in a post. Oh, ambiguity, how thou makest me suffer!

Your posts don't strike me as particularly friendly, maybe it's all the swearing?

 

[Perfect Circle]

Just so you know my nitpicking *** is laughing heartily at the irony of your statement on 2 wonderful levels, firstly I was mocking Jmorris in a friendly way, for ''schooling'' .lava on free speech, but doing so incorrectly, and secondly pointing out that some of the people in this thread, who are freneticlally screaming about how their constitutional rights are being curtailed don't know what the **** they are talking about isn't nitpicking. On some matters ambiguity is not acceptable.

I'm pretty sure that was just nitpicking...

BTW, you probably could have used a comma after Just so you know.

 

[JMorris]

Your posts don't strike me as particularly friendly, maybe it's all the swearing?

thats because she's irish and therefor constantly drunk.

 

[.lava]

I wouldn't call it a war. I guess you havn't seen how almost everything is criticized in the west. Its just muslims take it to heart.

you're aware it is not really critics or opinion people give reaction, right? sure there are people who could not stand to hear different opinion.

Its not a war because in all honesty i wouldn't take death threats seriously. Not in the west anyway. Its all talk, ego boasting. TBH no one really gives a damn what radical muslims think about Southpark as long as we all had a laugh which we did.

When radical muslims do things like this, a whole lot of goes on in the west.

i can't disagree with this

.

 

[.lava]

Among hundreds of millions of "Westerns" there are a bunch who seem to be at war with Muslims. They are used by Muslims to cry: "persecution!", whenever members of their faith misbehave.

Lava, under Sharia law, "mocking the prophet" is a punishable offense. You can't say this is just a few individuals who have a warped view of your faith that think like that. Sorry, you might not be a part of that culture, but a humongous number of Muslims are.

as a Muslim i am taught about Sharia naturally and i can say it is not applied anywhere on Earth right now. i am aware of certain stuff. for example some Turkish guy who lives in Saudi Arabia was sentenced to death for being disrespectful to Prophet or God (i can't recall which one) so, yes, i know what you mean and i am not willing to correct wrong doings of people which is impossible. but i can speak up for my religion and i am

.

 

[.lava]

Sorry for the late response, I must have missed your answer.

Well, I was trying to get you to give me an example of how scripture - that is, the inerrant word of god - would be useful. Where would you, when failing to find the answer to a question yourself, rely on the Qur'an?

Because, when you said:



...you seemed to imply that there are cases in which our intellect fails us and when it does, we use faith. I just assumed you meant that we use answers from scripture, but maybe I misunderstood.

learning process never ends in Tasavvuf. it ends when you die basically. for example, i perform ablution. ablution is done in certain order with water if you have water around you. when i first started it i did not know why. i still don't have all answer about it but i do it because i trust. so i did not know anything. in time i learned one of the aims of ablution is to get rid of electricity of body. i am unsure if this is the best way to say it though. grounding, i guess. but i still don't know why that certain order is there (which starts with hands, then mouth, then nose, then face...etc) but i would not change that order that's because of faith. i have no doubt there is a reason for it

.

 

[.lava]

with all due respect .lava, i dont think you know what freedom of speech is.

oh don't worry

teach me, please

.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Just so you know my nitpicking *** is laughing heartily at the irony of your statement on 2 wonderful levels, firstly I was mocking Jmorris in a friendly way, for ''schooling'' .lava on free speech, but doing so incorrectly, and secondly pointing out that some of the people in this thread, who are freneticlally screaming about how their constitutional rights are being curtailed don't know what the **** they are talking about isn't nitpicking. On some matters ambiguity is not acceptable.

Why are you continuing to espouse ideas that I have clearly told you are upsetting to me?

 

[Commoner]

learning process never ends in Tasavvuf. it ends when you die basically. for example, i perform ablution. ablution is done in certain order with water if you have water around you. when i first started it i did not know why. i still don't have all answer about it but i do it because i trust. so i did not know anything. in time i learned one of the aims of ablution is to get rid of electricity of body. i am unsure if this is the best way to say it though. grounding, i guess. but i still don't know why that certain order is there (which starts with hands, then mouth, then nose, then face...etc) but i would not change that order that's because of faith. i have no doubt there is a reason for it

.

See, this is exactly the type of thing that I would consider to be a bad idea. In your specific example, you can be pretty sure you're not doing anything too stupid - it's just a bit of water and you've seen others do it and they weren't harmed.

But really, it goes beyond that. You are doing something for reasons you do not fully understand, the (supposed) effects of which you do not fully understand. In general, I would say that's a recipe for disaster. Imagine if you were to apply that to another example. For instance - in the Bible there are passages that lead you to believe that, as long as you're on Jesus' side, you can do just about anything (drink poison, etc) and not be harmed. Imagine if you really took that on faith - without the knowledge you have, without the benefit of society having tested the idea out for you. Now that would be faith.

Yours is not an example of "faith", it is basically an example of accepting a form of Pascal's wager. If you do it, you're not really losing anything - you know that, since others have done it before you and since, generally, water is harmless. If you don't do it, you might be doing something to upset God*. So you do it - that's not faith, it's a gamble.

It gets even worse for me, I'm afraid. This is not an area in which our intellect fails us. We know what water is and what its effects are. You are disregarding that knowledge and hoping for an "extra" effect - if you only do something with it in the correct order - without any good reason to think so. What's the difference between that and spitting over your shoulder when a black cat passes you? (or whatever people do to avoid years of bad luck the poor little kitty is supposed to have bestowed upon them). Or do you think there are no negative consequences to being superstitious? If you do, I think I can give you a long list of examples that might change your mind.

*or at least, you might expect some negative consequences, since you are not doing things according to "the best" way they should be done.

 

[.lava]

See, this is exactly the type of thing that I would consider to be a bad idea. In your specific example, you can be pretty sure you're not doing anything too stupid - it's just a bit of water and you've seen others do it and they weren't harmed.

But really, it goes beyond that. You are doing something for reasons you do not fully understand, the (supposed) effects of which you do not fully understand. In general, I would say that's a recipe for disaster.

yes, it really goes beyond and i've been there. imagine there is something that makes you happy without causing any damage but you don't know how it happens. it is something like that. so more than words, my experience speaks to me. though that's not to say i have all the answers about it but geez i am curious to know, yes. so in case you assume my experience with practices of Islam is "empty" and i follow something else with no evidence at all please check out yourself and your understanding of my path. don't expect my privacy to be limited by your expectations, friend. it goes beyond there as well.

Imagine if you were to apply that to another example. For instance - in the Bible there are passages that lead you to believe that, as long as you're on Jesus' side, you can do just about anything (drink poison, etc) and not be harmed. Imagine if you really took that on faith - without the knowledge you have, without the benefit of society having tested the idea out for you. Now that would be faith.

anything is possible. the point is there is a huge difference (well, more like worlds apart) between having faith and challenging the unknown.

Yours is not an example of "faith", it is basically an example of accepting a form of Pascal's wager. If you do it, you're not really losing anything - you know that, since others have done it before you and since, generally, water is harmless. If you don't do it, you might be doing something to upset God*. So you do it - that's not faith, it's a gamble.

how so? btw there is no such a thing called upsetting God. you can't.

It gets even worse for me, I'm afraid. This is not an area in which our intellect fails us. We know what water is and what its effects are. You are disregarding that knowledge and hoping for an "extra" effect - if you only do something with it in the correct order - without any good reason to think so. What's the difference between that and spitting over your shoulder when a black cat passes you? (or whatever people do to avoid years of bad luck the poor little kitty is supposed to have bestowed upon them). Or do you think there are no negative consequences to being superstitious? If you do, I think I can give you a long list of examples that might change your mind.

i think i have seen enough of what ignorance can do and where it leads. i think it is about individual.

*or at least, you might expect some negative consequences, since you are not doing things according to "the best" way they should be done.

i'd have negative consequences only if i skip my practices

.

 

[Tiapan]

This is not islamic intolerance it is us submitting to false prophets.

Cheers

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Not sure if this has come up on this thread yet so apologies if it has. Unfortunately there is so much disinformation in the media these days, people are constantly being deceived to serve the purpose of those who spread hate.

(Warning - Bad Language)

The “Radical” Muslim Group That Threatened South Park Creators Was Founded and Run by Joseph Cohen, a Former Israeli Radical Who Used to Live in a Settlement in the West Bank « American Everyman

The Radical "Muslim" Group That Threatened South Park Creators Was Founded and Run by Joseph Cohen, a Former Israeli Radical Who Used to Live in a Settlement in the West Bank. Fundamentalist Jews who pretend to be Radical Muslims, a growing problem...

 

[JMorris]

Not sure if this has come up on this thread yet so apologies if it has. Unfortunately there is so much disinformation in the media these days, people are constantly being deceived to serve the purpose of those who spread hate.

(Warning - Bad Language)

The “Radical” Muslim Group That Threatened South Park Creators Was Founded and Run by Joseph Cohen, a Former Israeli Radical Who Used to Live in a Settlement in the West Bank « American Everyman

lol what a wonderfully trustworthy source you've got there. so was this simply supposed to prove that you trust the crazed rantings of random bloggers?

 

[Caladan]

lol what a wonderfully trustworthy source you've got there. so was this simply supposed to prove that you trust the crazed rantings of random bloggers?

I also wonder what made ben make the leap from the fact that the founder of the group may have been a former Jew to claiming its a conspiracy.

 

[monta]

I also wonder what made ben make the leap from the fact that the founder of the group may have been a former Jew to claiming its a conspiracy.

C'mon Dan we all know it is the Jews, everything eventually boils down to the Jews, I saw it on a website :yes:

www.ih8jewsnotbecauseiamignorant-but-because_theyareevil&R_destroying_civiliasation_toadvancejewinterests/heilfuhrer.com

 

[JMorris]

C'mon Dan we all know it is the Jews, everything eventually boils down to the Jews, I saw it on a website :yes:

www.ih8jewsnotbecauseiamignorant-but-because_theyareevil&R_destroying_civiliasation_toadvancejewinterests/heilfuhrer.com

pish posh, the jews are nearly as bad as the damn irish!:drool:

God Hates Ireland

 

[monta]

pish posh, the jews are nearly as bad as the damn irish!:drool:

God Hates Ireland

I love how Ireland gets a special mention makes me feel appreciated