Muhammed on South Park

[linwood]

It seems Muslims really dislike cartoons.

 

[.lava]

It seems Muslims really dislike cartoons.

actually i do like cartoons. Spirited Away was awesome and Sponge Bob is cute

.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Parker & Stone addressed this issue beautifully. The death threats they received are a perfect example of why the episode needed to be aired. It makes absolutely no difference whether or not Muhammed is a soft spot for Muslims... I'm sure Joseph Smith, Jesus, Buddha, Hubbard, and Science are all soft spots for people of every other color and creed... but how many death threats did those episodes result in? And what's more is that it came from a NY based muslim goup using veiled threats while hiding behind the exact same bill of rights that they would deny Parker & Stone.. :areyoucra

Excellent point.

I think it is laughable too that many Muslims don't even realize the target of the joke. They don't even understand what they're angry at.

I have read many posts on this very thread wherein Islamic followers have asked why it is funny to mock and ridicule muhammad.

Southpark was NOT ridiculing muhammed. Southpark was ridiculing those who believe it is punishable to depict muhammed in a cartoon. The target of Parker and Stone's parady isn't the Islamic religion or its prophet, but those who feel they have the right to demand that others place the same sort of reverance in images that Islam does.

 

[linwood]

Southpark was NOT ridiculing muhammed. Southpark was ridiculing those who believe it is punishable to depict muhammed in a cartoon. The target of Parker and Stone's parady isn't the Islamic religion or its prophet, but those who feel they have the right to demand that others place the same sort of reverance in images that Islam does.

The fact that they don`t "get it" is the funny part...the REALLY REALLY funny part.

 

[Commoner]

i don't have access to youtube. if you wish, summarize what he says. but i am not talking to him and i don't know why i should respond to him. i thought you had a claim here

.

Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I would be very upset about that in itself - not because I love youtube that much. but for someone to censor what I can watch/read and what I can't. Anyway...

It's really short, a reporter is talking to a Muslim man (seems to be a leader of some "iffy" group) and is basically asking him about his thoughts regarding the threat. The Muslim man responds that the Quran clearly states that you should "terrorize the unbelieveres" - he stresses that it is a commandment to Muslims (quotes the Qur'an in arabic). Then he flip flops and gets a bit defensive and basically says it all depends on how you define terrorism, that it can simply mean making someone fear you so that he won't go and rape your sister, etc...

EDIT: actually, he says "disbelievers", not "unbelievers", if it makes any difference

 

[footprints]

I suppose this is the fundamental difference in our views. I see religion defined by, and a reflection of, the people who currently practice it. All religions evolve - and interpretations of scripture change over time. So, the most accurate definition of what any religion is currently, is the views, perceptions, and practices of the people who claim to follow that religion. I don't care what any particular piece of scripture says - if the people who practice the religion do something else, then that is what the religion is for all practical purposes.

Though when the mind is blinded by the few and not the many, they are not seeing reality at all, just a perception of their own life experience and own minds creation. Everybody has the ability and the opportunity to correct the imbalance of their own life experience if they really want to.

And just so we can clealy see that it is a distorted view of reality, if you could please advise me how many death threats were received,

And Lava, if you read this, can you tell me how many Muslims there are in the world. And for a more direct comparison how many muslims in the USA.

Personally I think the point has been made, without any figures being posted at all.

 

[.lava]

And Lava, if you read this, can you tell me how many Muslims there are in the world. And for a more direct comparison how many muslims in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

says that...world total number of Muslims is 1,571,198,000 and in USA there are 2,454,000 Muslims

.

 

[.lava]

Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I would be very upset about that in itself - not because I love youtube that much. but for someone to censor what I can watch/read and what I can't. Anyway...

i am sorry too i used to use youtube a lot. i personally take this ban as an insult.

It's really short, a reporter is talking to a Muslim man (seems to be a leader of some "iffy" group) and is basically asking him about his thoughts regarding the threat. The Muslim man responds that the Quran clearly states that you should "terrorize the unbelieveres" - he stresses that it is a commandment to Muslims (quotes the Qur'an in arabic). Then he flip flops and gets a bit defensive and basically says it all depends on how you define terrorism, that it can simply mean making someone fear you so that he won't go and rape your sister, etc...

EDIT: actually, he says "disbelievers", not "unbelievers", if it makes any difference

as if no Muslim men would rape his sister. this is non sense by nature of things. when USA first entered Iraq, years ago, there've been rapes and we Muslims got letters from Iraqi women who beg for their deaths because they're pregnant. they were saying "please, kill us". i know this is very tragic. i can't stand it. the point is, Iraqis came along to my nation, both men and women during first years of war. they organized a meeting about Iraq just to let us know about their problems. thanks to them now we know, before USA invaded Iraq, there was rape. after USA entered that land women were raped by Americans. either way women were suffering badly because of cruelty of men. so, i am saying this only as an individual and what i say has nothing to do with other Muslims. i find this deeply saddening. Muslims did not pay attention, some of us knew it but did not care and some of us did not even know what was happening in Iraq but basically when our sisters were tortured by Muslim men; we did nothing. we started to care when same women were tortured by Western people. in my case, i personally did not know about it. but fact remains the same. i hope you see my point here. why would a terrible crime appears to be more important when it's done by Western? anyways..

and this video you talk about.. that Muslim man, i certainly do not know his emotional situation but i really need to know which verse he refers to because "terror" by all means is out of Islam. matter of fact it is against Islam. i would understand if he is feeling rage and revengeful thoughts towards Western powers even though i would not approve it but i still get it

.

 

[Commoner]

i am sorry too i used to use youtube a lot. i personally take this ban as an insult.

Yeah, sounds really awful. Do you know, is it actually illegal in Turkey to access certain sites, or are you just not able too? Because if it's not illegal, that's not really much of a problem.

as if no Muslim men would rape his sister. this is non sense by nature of things. when USA first entered Iraq, years ago, there've been rapes and we Muslims got letters from Iraqi women who beg for their deaths because they're pregnant. they were saying "please, kill us". i know this is very tragic. i can't stand it. the point is, Iraqis came along to my nation, both men and women during first years of war. they organized a meeting about Iraq just to let us know about their problems. thanks to them now we know, before USA invaded Iraq, there was rape. after USA entered that land women were raped by Americans. either way women were suffering badly because of cruelty of men. so, i am saying this only as an individual and what i say has nothing to do with other Muslims. i find this deeply saddening. Muslims did not pay attention, some of us knew it but did not care and some of us did not even know what was happening in Iraq but basically when our sisters were tortured by Muslim men; we did nothing. we started to care when same women were tortured by Western people. in my case, i personally did not know about it. but fact remains the same. i hope you see my point here. why would a terrible crime appears to be more important when it's done by Western? anyways...

I get what you're saying, although I'm a bit skeptical about just how much blame can be put on the US military. I mean, considering the situation, the invading army is always likely to be a good scapegoat. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure there's a lot of nasty stuff going on, I just wouldn't take everything at face value. Anyway, I'm sure the same attitude towards women is common among less developed countries and Islam seems to be especially prone to such practices.

and this video you talk about.. that Muslim man, i certainly do not know his emotional situation but i really need to know which verse he refers to because "terror" by all means is out of Islam. matter of fact it is against Islam. i would understand if he is feeling rage and revengeful thoughts towards Western powers even though i would not approve it but i still get it.

You know, I'd love to give you the exact verse he quotes, but it's in Arabic. But he translates the part as literally meaning "terrorize them". But, nevermind - something like this, for instance:

8.12 - YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

47.4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks...

I'm not sure if these are accurate...

 

[Perfect Circle]

And just so we can clealy see that it is a distorted view of reality, if you could please advise me how many death threats were received,

And Lava, if you read this, can you tell me how many Muslims there are in the world. And for a more direct comparison how many muslims in the USA.

Personally I think the point has been made, without any figures being posted at all.

So it's okay if I threaten your life, but only once? What are you getting at...

What does it matter how many Muslims there are in the World or US? Once again... not a single other religious group has threatened Parker & Stone with death even though they've mocked their ideals FAR worse. The one single time that they make a social commentary on the "taboo" factor of portraying Muhammed, they're met with threats of violence.

No one is claiming that these groups represent all of Islam, are they? We all understand that there are compassionate, intelligent, reasonable people (like .lava) to be found in every religion. I don't think this incident is a reason to bash on Islam, but I do think it highlights the need for public outcry against it by moderate Muslims.

 

[neves]

Perhaps it is "obviously a setup" if you're looking for further reasons to despise Stone & Parker.
But let's presume it is a ratings ploy. If so, then Chesser & RevolutionMuslim.com are part of the plot.
This would mean that Muslims are aiding & abetting those who would mock their prophet. Does
this make sense? Would Stone & Parker create a very real risk of being murdered just for a
possibility their ratings might increase? That seems as unlikely as skimpy dresses causing earthquakes.

Yes they like rating, like any other TV show... and its obvious it got them ratings...

[youtube]L_E6zoUJzvU[/youtube]
YouTube - South Parks Depiction of Mohammad. Pre 9/11

 

[*Anne*]

I wouldn't assume that Stone and Parker not receiving threats the first time around means that they somehow cooked this all up the second time around.

 

[Commoner]

Yes they like rating, like any other TV show... and its obvious it got them ratings...

Well, I'm glad we can at least agree on just how ridiculous these kinds of death threats are...

 

[DarkSun]

LOL do you mean they were being fair and sharing ridicule equally.

Multiple wrongs doesn't somehow make it right.

It's not ridicule, it's a joke.
South Park takes the mickey out of everything - not just religion.
To threaten someone with death just because they have a sense of humour is kind of sad, if you as me.

 

[Draka]

I read that their old episode of "Super Best Friends" is now taken off their own website and they won't allow streaming of it anymore.

 

[.lava]

Yeah, sounds really awful. Do you know, is it actually illegal in Turkey to access certain sites, or are you just not able too? Because if it's not illegal, that's not really much of a problem.

sorry for being late.
i don't know if it's illegal. i don't think so. possible to use proxies but they don't work perfectly.

You know, I'd love to give you the exact verse he quotes, but it's in Arabic. But he translates the part as literally meaning "terrorize them". But, nevermind - something like this, for instance:

8.12 - YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

47.4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks...

I'm not sure if these are accurate...

OK, i checked out 8:12 and the Arabic word that's used there is "er ru'be" and it means "fear". i am unsure if it is because of translation but sure translation is poor. but it does not matter considering what we are talking about here. God says "i will give fear into their hearts". we are definetely not commanded to play God. therefor i don't understand how come any Muslim take this as a command and say Muslims should give people fear.

i researched for other verses and i found this. i am quoting from the same source you probably use;

003.151YUSUFALI: Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
PICKTHAL: We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

again, the exact word that's used is "er ru'be"

017.060YUSUFALI: Behold! We told thee that thy Lord doth encompass mankind round about: We granted the vision which We showed thee, but as a trial for men,- as also the Cursed Tree (mentioned) in the Qur'an: We put terror (and warning) into them, but it only increases their inordinate transgression!
PICKTHAL: And (it was a warning) when we told thee: Lo! thy Lord encompasseth mankind, and We appointed the sight which We showed thee as an ordeal for mankind, and (likewise) the Accursed Tree in the Qur'an. We warn them, but it increaseth them in naught save gross impiety.
SHAKIR: And when We said to you: Surely your Lord encompasses men; and We did not make the vision which We showed you but a trial for men and the cursed tree in the Quran as well; and We cause them to fear, but it only adds to their great inordinacy

059.002YUSUFALI: It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering (of the forces). Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But the (Wrath of) Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected (it), and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes (to see)!
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath caused those of the People of the Scripture who disbelieved to go forth from their homes unto the first exile. Ye deemed not that they would go forth, while they deemed that their strongholds would protect them from Allah. But Allah reached them from a place whereof they recked not, and cast terror in their hearts so that they ruined their houses with their own hands and the hands of the believers. So learn a lesson, O ye who have eyes!
SHAKIR: He it is Who caused those who disbelieved of the followers of the Book to go forth from their homes at the first banishment you did not think that they would go forth, while they were certain that their fortresses would defend them against Allah; but Allah came to them whence they did not expect, and cast terror into their hearts; they demolished their houses with their own hands and the hands of the believers; therefore take a lesson, O you who have eyes!

.

 

[Revoltingest]

003.151YUSUFALI: Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
PICKTHAL: We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

Whoa! I started scanning the thread & came across the above quotes.
What does this mean about how Muslims view & treat unbelievers (eg, me)?

 

[.lava]

Whoa! I started scanning the thread & came across the above quotes.
What does this mean about how Muslims view & treat unbelievers (eg, me)?

what do you mean? i shared those verses to show Muslims are not commanded to terrorize people

.

 

[Commoner]

Whoa! I started scanning the thread & came across the above quotes.
What does this mean about how Muslims view & treat unbelievers (eg, me)?

Don't worry, "We" refers to Allah, so it's only god that's after you. (at least in these verses)

 

[Commoner]

what do you mean? i shared those verses to show Muslims are not commanded to terrorize people

.

Clearly, you can pick up a translation that suits you and use it. You're a rational person, so you use the translation that seems most peaceful (although, I must say - these verses are anything but a show of tolerance). A less rational person might choose a different translation.

Whatever, either "smite above our necks" or "terrorize us" or send us to a pit of fire, the message is quite clear. It is the course of action Allah takes, it is consistent with his words, so it's not a great stretch at all for a Muslim (or a non-Muslim) to believe you are commanded to terrorize unbelievers. Not to mention the hadith. That's a whole 'nother minefield.

It's just not a very good situation for anyone.