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Multiculturalism:Your Opinion

Multiculturalism:You Opinion

  • Multiculturalism is totally awesome and anyone who opposes it is a bigot and racist

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • Multiculturalism is okay to some extent but their should be dominant culture

    Votes: 22 48.9%
  • I dont like Multiculturalism

    Votes: 3 6.7%
  • Multiculturalism leads to situation like Lebanese Civil War and Partition of India

    Votes: 1 2.2%

  • Total voters
    45

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
Yeah. And it MAKES NO SENSE!! :banghead3

Yeah I think he's misunderstanding your point, possibly because having gendered nouns is so normal to him.

The arbitrariness is that the nouns have any gender at all, not that in French they're not so clearly labeled as in Spanish or Italian. To English speakers that can get frustrating and confusing. And it feels arbitrary (although I'm not a linguist, I don't know if that's the case or not, but I was taught it was so.)
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Every noun in German has an inherent grammatical gender. (masculine, feminine and neuter) It's even more important to get this right in German as you need the gender to correctly decline your noun for case.

Here is the declension pattern for the definite article (the)

definitearticle%20copy.jpg


There's nothing optional about this unless you want to completely avoid nouns.

Grammatical gender is a reality of the majority of languages in the Indo-European family, including Old English. Modern English is kind of the oddball in this. There's no rhyme or reason for it, but it is what it is.

...Old English had it too? Great... now I wonder how would that translate into some harder form of Anglish?

Traditionally, nations took the feminine as well.

Oh, yeah! Ireland especially had to take advantage of that for a while in its songs.

Don't feel bad, language is one of my foremost interests. I actually study it as a hobby. English, French, German and Mandarin Chinese are the languages I'm most familiar with in terms of how they work. (although at this point I can only effectively communicate in English and French) I'll learn the other two within my lifetime though.

One of these days, I'm going to learn Japanese, German, and Irish. :D (Pity German films are all so freaking depressing or WWII-based, and that Irish only has a soap opera. Oh, well.)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I'm asking you for evidence to back up your statement, the same as you could ask of me.

Doesn't my testimony suffice?
I remember this episode (at school, 6th grade): my classmate was at the blackboard. The teacher was already nervous. The boy said: "what shall I write?" in Sicilian and with a provocative tone. The teacher stood up and almost slapped him. Then she suspended him for a day.

:sarcastic got it?

besides...the wikipedia article is clear. It doesn't support it. It means that teachers cannot speak in Sicilian while holding classes. neither can pupils or students
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No, it's the lack of need.
Everyone important speaks English.
So we apply our laziness elsewhere, eg, science & math.
Of course, this varies with locale.
In the southwest, more of us palefaces learn something similar to Spanish.

precisely. I was talking about American monolingualism. so I don't understand why you brought patriotism up.
This goes with Revoltingest's post, but here many of us believe that English is "god's language," or we believe we are so superior that there is no need to learn another language (which is blatantly false as we do alot of business with other countries like Germany and Japan and we have many Mexican immigrants). And if it isn't one of those, American culture does not encourage bilingualism; it's either actively discouraged, or viewed as being something reserved for super smart people.

I'm more than a bit disappointed. If you have your own country, you should have your own dialect too. I figures it would be pieces of mumbo jumbo with occasional yells of 'Bacon!" or "Diesel!" interspersed with vague moans ... sort of a Homer attempting intellectual conversation with Willy's accent, but failing miserably.
America actually has several dialects. Myself I normally speak in what is considered "accent neutral" which is common for the American Midwest. People in New England pronounce their "Rs" differently, and there is also a Southern drawl and Cajun English.


I do need to get more experience with other languages. ^_^

English actually isn't 100% free of gendered nouns. We do have one: ships are gendered female.

But I thought using gendered particles in German was sort of optional?
They are mandatory. Using correct definite and indefinite articles depends on knowing the gender of the noun you are using, as well as the case being used. You also have to know the gender of the noun to use correct adjective endings. And the gender of the nouns are typically arbitrary and cannot be inferred.
As for the ships, that is tradition and not an actual linguistics rule. Except for when speaking about men and women, English is free of gendered nouns.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
To English speakers that can get frustrating and confusing. And it feels arbitrary (although I'm not a linguist, I don't know if that's the case or not, but I was taught it was so.)

as for Spanish, Italian it is very very simple to find out if a noun is masculine or feminine.
because almost all masculine nouns end with O and almost all feminine nouns end with A.
the ones ending with E can be either masculine or feminine.

Sp. el librO (book)
It. il librO .....masculine because of O

Sp. la casA (house)
It. la casA ............feminine because of A

Sp. la ficciòn (fiction)
It. la finzione feminine
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
as for Spanish, Italian it is very very simple to find out if a noun is masculine or feminine.
because almost all masculine nouns end with O and almost all feminine nouns end with A.
the ones ending with E can be either masculine or feminine.

Sp. el librO (book)
It. il librO .....masculine because of O

Sp. la casA (house)
It. la casA ............feminine because of A

Sp. la ficciòn (fiction)
It. la finzione feminine
I wish German was that easy. I was in German class the other day trying to remember what the gender of Bibliothek (library) is. Turns out it's feminine (die), but the way I was using it makes it masculine (der). Sometimes you can make make some sort of relation between the word and it's gender to help you remember it, such as der Kuli, which is a pen, a long stick like a man's penis, or die Tür, a door, which the "door way of life" is a female's vagina, but die Wand (wall) or das Buch (neuter, book), elude any clever ways to remember the gender in my mind. At least Japanese doesn't have gender to make that one even more complicated.
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
Doesn't my testimony suffice?
I remember this episode (at school, 6th grade): my classmate was at the blackboard. The teacher was already nervous. The boy said: "what shall I write?" in Sicilian and with a provocative tone. The teacher stood up and almost slapped him. Then she suspended him for a day.

:sarcastic got it?

besides...the wikipedia article is clear. It doesn't support it. It means that teachers cannot speak in Sicilian while holding classes. neither can pupils or students
No, I'm requesting something documented as I don't consider you trustworthy as a reporter based on the threads regarding gender and find your use of patronizing language insulting. Teachers have suspended kids before rightly and wrongly, that doesn't demonstrate that it is prohibited which is different than it not being taught to students or used as a language to be taught in.



as for Spanish, Italian it is very very simple to find out if a noun is masculine or feminine.
because almost all masculine nouns end with O and almost all feminine nouns end with A.
the ones ending with E can be either masculine or feminine.

Sp. el librO (book)
It. il librO .....masculine because of O

Sp. la casA (house)
It. la casA ............feminine because of A

Sp. la ficciòn (fiction)
It. la finzione feminine
You're continuing to miss the point. It isn't about how "easy" it is to tell it's that there are genders at all. To an English speaker there's no reason to gender ANY nouns.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Yeah I think he's misunderstanding your point, possibly because having gendered nouns is so normal to him.

The arbitrariness is that the nouns have any gender at all, not that in French they're not so clearly labeled as in Spanish or Italian. To English speakers that can get frustrating and confusing. And it feels arbitrary (although I'm not a linguist, I don't know if that's the case or not, but I was taught it was so.)
As far as I can tell, and have been told, at least in German they are arbitrary in most situations. Sometimes it is how a word ends, such as anything that ends with "chen" is neuter, which is why it is das Mädchen (young girl). Or if it's plural it is always feminine, even if it's a group of men. Many foreign loan words I'm pretty sure are feminine. But what the hell kind of a gender is Waser (water) supposed to have?
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
As far as I can tell, and have been told, at least in German they are arbitrary in most situations. Sometimes it is how a word ends, such as anything that ends with "chen" is neuter, which is why it is das Mädchen (young girl). Or if it's plural it is always feminine, even if it's a group of men. Many foreign loan words I'm pretty sure are feminine. But what the hell kind of a gender is Waser (water) supposed to have?

Right? And to the English speaker, why does water have a gender at all? If there's a neuter, why have gendered!

I'm sure there's reasons but I'm not a linguist and languages are NOT my skill.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
Don't think of grammatical gender so much as the idea that innate objects actually have gender, (no French speaker really thinks the sun is male, or that the moon is really a woman) but as a grammatical function attached to the words themselves.

It's not that big of a deal as after awhile you don't even have to think about it.
 
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Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
Don't think of grammatical gender so much as the idea that innate objects actually have gender, (no French speaker really thinks the sun is male, or that the moon is really a woman) but as a grammatical function attached to the words themselves.

It's not that big of a deal as after awhile you don't even have to think about it.
Like many things you get used to it, I just was trying to explain the point more because it seemed to be being missed.

It is more complex, regardless. (And of course English has many things that are more or less complex than other languages too.)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
No, I'm requesting something documented as I don't consider you trustworthy as a reporter based on the threads regarding gender and find your use of patronizing language insulting. Teachers have suspended kids before rightly and wrongly, that doesn't demonstrate that it is prohibited which is different than it not being taught to students or used as a language to be taught in.
.

so...if I were a school student, do you really think I would be allowed to speak Sicilian to the school headmaster?
I guess you think he would be pleased to hear me.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
As far as I can tell, and have been told, at least in German they are arbitrary in most situations. Sometimes it is how a word ends, such as anything that ends with "chen" is neuter, which is why it is das Mädchen (young girl). Or if it's plural it is always feminine, even if it's a group of men. Many foreign loan words I'm pretty sure are feminine. But what the hell kind of a gender is Waser (water) supposed to have?

yes. precisely. Unlike German, Spanish and Italian don't have the neuter gender.
Normally objects like a door (porta, puerta) are feminine because of its ending . we don't think that door is a female. We just think of the ending. It is more something extrinsic rather than something intrinsic.
 

MD

qualiaphile
It has been a disaster in Europe, hence the expansion of Russia and the growth of Islamism and jihadists. The continent is finished, in a way karma for the world it plundered.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
yeah...it is horrible that public employees sometimes speak Sicilian to their colleagues. They should be fired

Not if both understand each other.

If such an employee insists on speaking Sicilian to colleagues who don't understand it, then yes, they should be fired. But if they're only speaking Sicilian to people who do understand it, and it's not pertinent that others hear the conversation, then no, they should NOT be fired for that.
 
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