Muslim and Baha'i View about Islam

[InvestigateTruth]

...I think my understanding of Monothesim based on Quran conflicts the foundations of Bahaullahs lofty claims..they contaminate my perception of the Oneness of Allah and I will never choose to accept it...

No, I don't think they contradict.
There are Various Views on Station of Divine Messengers:

The mainstream Christians believe, Jesus was God incarnation. Incarnation means, that God Himself appeared in flash, or God literally is inside Jesus.

The Mainstream Muslims believe, the Messengers are just regular people who can sin, and make mistakes, but they just received a Book from God to reveal to people.

The Baha’is believe that the Messengers are neither the incarnation of God, nor just a regular man. They are a higher level of creation, above regular man. That means even they have a physical Body like a man, but their Spirit, is the Holy Spirit. Their station and Wisdom is infinitely above man, similar to comparing a Sheppard to a flock. This is how they are created by God, to Sheppard and train the flock of God.
Baha’is believe that Messengers are Manifestations of God, and this is how God created Them and They did not choose to be a Manifestation.

Usually Muslims understand the term Manifestation the same as incarnation. But that is incorrect. When we say Manifestation, it means that, the Will and Attributes of God are fully manifested in Messengers. Not that God Himself is inside their Body.
When the Perfect Mirror shows the Image of the Sun, the Sun has not moved from sky into Mirror, but His Light and image is manifested in the Mirror.

This view is more consistent with Quran, Hadithes, and Bible, in comparison with the view of mainstream Muslims, for these reasons:

Obedience to Messenger is Obedience to God:
“Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah…” Quran 4:80

Note that He did not say, those who obey Quran, obey Allah, but those who obey the Messenger obey Allah!

Pleading fealty to a Messenger, is Pleading fealty to God:

“In truth, they who plighted fealty unto thee [O Muhammad), really plighted that fealty unto God.” Quran 48:10.

The action of Messenger is the Action of God:

“and when you (O Messenger) threw (dust at them at the start of the battle), it was not you who threw but God threw.” Quran 8:17
That means, the action and Will of God, was manifested in the Messenger.

“I am He, and He is I, except He is He, and I am I” Hadith attributed to Muhammad

If the Image of the Sun in a Perfect Mirror says I am the Sun, that is true, since the Image of Sun fully appeared “in” it, and if it says, I am Mirror, and the Sun is the Sun that is true also.

Likewise Jesus said:
“Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me,…But the Father is greater than I” – Jesus as recorded in Gospels

(some of the verses in Quran that appears as if Muhammad is asking forgiveness for committed sins, is only representing on behalf of His People and the aim is to teach His community for asking forgiveness)
Also, different Divine Messengers presented Themselves in different ways, and spoke to people in a way that their Massage can be accepted by People.
For example, Muhammad said that an Angel appears to Him and tells Him God’s Words. In case of some other Messengers, it was the Holy Spirit, in case of Moses God Himself as Burning Bush.

The Baha’i Scriptures, like Quran, explains that some of the verses are analogies, and symbolic.
The Angel Gabriel, in my view, is not really some external thing with two wings. It is the Holy Reality of Muhammad, His own Holy Spirit, which was capable of reflecting the Words and Will of God like a Mirror.
People at the time of Muhammad expected a True Prophet be accompanied by an angel, and I think for that reason He presented Himself this way for their sake.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Please donot merely state your beliefs, do you mind elaborating?

Here is a good link explaining the Prophecies:

Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage

 

[InvestigateTruth]

..I think my understanding of Monothesim based on Quran conflicts the foundations of Bahaullahs lofty claims..

Baha'u'llah had already replied to this:

“Certain ones among you, have said: ‘He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.’ By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs... My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will.... I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors....” Baha'u'llah, Gleanings, p. 228.




"I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely."

The mission to which He had devoted His entire life, which had cost Him the life of a cherished younger son , as well as all of His material , possessions which had undermined His health, and brought imprisonment, exile, and abuse, was not one that He had initiated. “Not of Mine own volition,” He said, had He entered on such a course:


"Think ye, O people, that I hold within My grasp the control of God’s ultimate Will and Purpose?… Had the ultimate destiny of God’s Faith been in Mine hands, I would have never consented, even though for one moment, to manifest Myself unto you, nor would I have allowed one word to fall from My lips. Of this God Himself is, verily, a witness."
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/SB/sb-14.html


"By My life! Not of Mine own volition have I revealed Myself, but God, of His own choosing, hath manifested Me."
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/ESW/esw-1.html

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Another difference I see between the Quran and Bahai texts is that..it never comes across for an instance when I read the Quran that Muhammad is actually the author behind the words...Bahaullah in contrast cannot stop praising the divine truth of his pen..

There are Hadith Qodsi which Muhammad is the Author.
As regards to Baha'i Texts, the Bab revealed a Book in the same style of Quran.

Baha'u'llahs Books are revealed in different Modes:

His Writings are all considered direct Revelations by Baha’is. They are revealed in nine Modes.
Here I give some example verses:
Example 1:

“Say: We have revealed Our verses in nine different modes. Each one of them bespeaketh the sovereignty of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. A single one of them sufficeth for a proof unto all who are in the heavens and on the earth; yet the people, for the most part, persist in their heedlessness. Should it be Our wish, We would reveal them in countless other modes.”

Here God is saying to Baha’u’llah: “Say: We have revealed Our verses in nine different modes….”
It means, O Baha’u’llah say, We (God) have revealed Our verses in Nine Mode in this Revelations…
Example 2:
“He speaketh not as prompted by His own self, but as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.” The Most Holy Tablet

Here Baha’u’llah is hearing the Words of God through the Holy Spirit and saying what He is asked to say. So, God is saying: He (Baha’u’llah does not speak as prompted by His Own self, but He says what God, the All-knowing asks Him to say.


As regards to "Pen", that is Baha'u'llah Himself. God wrote His Book by His Pen, and the Pen of God was Baha'u'llah:

"O PEOPLES of the earth! God, the Eternal Truth, is My witness that streams of fresh and soft-flowing waters have gushed from the rocks, through the sweetness of the words uttered by your Lord, the Unconstrained; and still ye slumber. Cast away that which ye possess, and, on the wings of detachment, soar beyond all created things. Thus biddeth you the Lord of creation, the movement of Whose Pen hath revolutionized the soul of mankind."

"the movement of Whose Pen hath revolutionized the soul of mankind." means, By Pen of God, the human civilization is to be changed to a new creation.

Here the Pen is Baha'u'llah, and the Most High is God. The Pen of the Most High, is the Pen of God, who is Baha'u'llah:

"Through each and every one of the verses which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed, the doors of love and unity have been unlocked and flung open to the face of men. We have erewhile declared—and Our Word is the truth—: ‘Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.’ Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 83-97

 

[BruceDLimber]

Another difference I see between the Quran and Bahai texts is that it never comes across for an instance when I read the Quran that Muhammad is actually the author behind the words.

So sorry, but this is very misleading:

He was not in fact the author: Muhammad was illiterate and therefore DICTATED the Qur'an while others wrote it down!

Baha'u'llah did indeed write some of His scriptures in person and dictated others, after which He checked and sealed them to indicate their a correctness.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Monotheist 101]

So sorry, but this is very misleading:

He was not in fact the author: Muhammad was illiterate and therefore DICTATED the Qur'an while others wrote it down!

Peace,

Bruce

Not a bright bunch are we? No wonder your so susceptible to Bahaullahs fantasies..

Lets break down what I said.

I said Muhammad was not the Author..you basically repeated that..and added that he was illiterate and he dictated it while other people wrote it down..

My Question to you is why go through the trouble?

I think the point you are trying to make Bruce is flawed in the sense that..If I was to say Muhammad IS the author of the Quran..and then added that he dictated while a scribe wrote it down..technically that WOULD still make him the author..

But I said the exact opposite..I think you need to visit dictionary.com and understand what author means..you have got it confused with scribe..which leads me to believe that you have got Bahaullah confused for the real Mahdi which is still to come..

Anyways came back hoping to find an intelligent response...but was I disappointed...

 

[InvestigateTruth]

..which leads me to believe that you have got Bahaullah confused for the real Mahdi which is still to come.:

Hi Mono101, welcomeback. By the way, just to refresh your memory, Baha'u'llah is not Mahdi. The Bab is.
Note that according to Islamic Prophecies there are TWO promised Ones. First Mahdi who would Rule for six years Then Christ Returns and will Rule for Forty years. In the biginning Mahdi is the leader and Christ His follower then after Mahdi the Christ will be the leader. Which all these with the exact timing is fulfilled by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
And this was to refresh your memory. But as you saw I replied to all your questions in previous posts. Should you wish to continue the discussion you should take the time review my replies and if you have farther question that is not covered let me know.

 

[BruceDLimber]

My Question to you is why go through the trouble [of [promulgating scripture]?

For humanity's benefit and guidance, obviously!

Peace,

Bruce