Muslim Belief on Torah

[Deut 13:1]

Anyone know?

 

[Popeyesays]

Anyone know?

3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 3 - The Family Of Imran)

50 And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me.
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 3 - The Family Of Imran)

44 Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 5 - The Food)

46 And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 5 - The Food)

68 Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 5 - The Food)

110 When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic;
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 5 - The Food)

111 Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'án. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 9 - Repentance)

6 And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 61 - The Ranks)

Regards,
Scott

 

[Deut 13:1]

Very cool, so from those, Muslims believe the Torah is accurate?

If so, why is their a debate on who the lands belongs too?

 

[Yasin]

Very cool, so from those, Muslims believe the Torah is accurate?

If so, why is their a debate on who the lands belongs too?

I speaking as a Muslim, is the Torah was accurate, but in time became corrupted, even the Bible testifies to this:

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us?
Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
(Jeremiah 8:8)

Same goes for the Gospel, thats why God promises mankind that he will guard the Quran from corruption (Holy Quran 15:9), and to be the Last Testament.

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[Deut 13:1]

I speaking as a Muslim, is the Torah was accurate, but in time became corrupted, even the Bible testifies to this:

Aha. So let's think about this for a second. What did the original Torah say?

G-d: I give the Jews.......America.

Jews: Nah, we don't like America, let's change it to....Israel.

Same goes for the Gospel, thats why God promises mankind that he will guard the Quran from corruption (Holy Quran 15:9), and to be the Last Testament.

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

You call yourself a Muslim.
You believe in G-d.
Do you believe that G-d gave us the Torah?
As a Muslim, you just said you do.

What does it say there? That the land of Israel belongs to the Jews, not to Muslims, nor to Christians, nor to Buddhists, nor to Americans; but to the Jews.

End of story.

Now, if you don't believe in G-d, then we can have a debate...

If you do believe in G-d, what's there to debate?

 

[Aqualung]

But if all Jews (all righteous ones, that is) were meant to follow mohammed, because he was another prophet of god, that makes islam true judaism, and means the muslims get isreal.

 

[jiin_caltro]

Interesting observations...A little insert of my own here.

I've always found it interesting that the Bible and the Torah were mistranslated in ways, that things had been lost. But I find it even more interesting after reading a translation of the Qur'an, Surah 15 verse 9. It says that the message (the Qur'an) will be protected from corruption. But the fact that I read it in english sort of suggests otherwise, doesn't it?

I mean, the main reason the Bible and Torah are not complete is because they were allowed to be translated from their native tongue, and in the translations things were lost. Can the Qur'an really be an exception then?

 

[Deut 13:1]

But if all Jews (all righteous ones, that is) were meant to follow mohammed, because he was another prophet of god, that makes islam true judaism, and means the muslims get isreal.

Does G-d contradict himself? Why would G-d, such a benivulent Being, clearly say to the Children of ISRAEL (Jacob) I give you China.

But you keep believing we just changed it to Israel. :biglaugh:

 

[Aqualung]

Does G-d contradict himself? Why would G-d, such a benivulent Being, clearly say to the Children of ISRAEL (Jacob) I give you China.

I was just stating what I thought might be one reason they believed they should have isreal.

But you keep believing we just changed it to Israel. :biglaugh:

I can't "keep" doing something I don't do in the first place!! I was just postulating. I have no belief that they should get Israel. I was just giving a reason they might think that. So go laugh at somebody else.

 

[wmam]

What does it say there? That the land of Israel belongs to the Jews, not to Muslims, nor to Christians, nor to Buddhists, nor to Americans; but to the Jews.

End of story.

Now, if you don't believe in G-d, then we can have a debate...

If you do believe in G-d, what's there to debate?

KJV.........

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The time of the Gentiles is yet not over.

 

[Deut 13:1]

I was just stating what I thought might be one reason they believed they should have isreal.

I can't "keep" doing something I don't do in the first place!! I was just postulating. I have no belief that they should get Israel. I was just giving a reason they might think that. So go laugh at somebody else.

Fair enough.

 

[wmam]

KJV.........

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The time of the Gentiles is yet not over.

I want to add that I believe that their are physical, as well as, spiritual Hebrews (Yisraelites) that the land will be given back to at the time appointed. Not all that say they are Hebrews are Hebrews. YAH only knows that of each one of us.

 

[Deut 13:1]

KJV.........

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The time of the Gentiles is yet not over.

Why would G-d contradict himself?

 

[Scott1]

End of story.

Ummm.... I don't want to speak for Yasin, but it seems that your questions have been answered:

the Torah was accurate, but in time became corrupted

I don't believe anyone suggested that God "changed his mind" but that Jews can not know the "mind" of God because the Torah (and the NT for Christians) have become corrupted.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Ummm.... I don't want to speak for Yasin, but it seems that your questions have been answered:

Cute, how you reverse the order. You take my response to his comment and reverse it.

I don't believe anyone suggested that God "changed his mind" but that Jews can not know the "mind" of God because the Torah (and the NT for Christians) have become corrupted.

So you as well take the position that this is conversation that took place?

G-d: I give the Jews... Britian.
Jews: We don't like Britian, let's change it to Israel.

Is that how you view it? Because if that's the way you appraoch Torah, no wonder you have so many passages that magically refer to Mr. J. I mean, I could read spiderman and find just as many prophecies if I approach it from this angel.

Spiderman: Oh Noe! it's Doc Oc!
Scott1: Doc Oc doesn't refer the battle between good and evil, let's change that to Satan...

Alright, enough joking, being serious for a moment, Scott, if that's their position that the Torah is inaccurate couldn't that logic then be applied to the prophecies that Muhammod fullfilled in the Quran or from your perspective, the NT?

 

[jamaesi]

... Israel can't be shared?

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have ties there.


Edit- And Christianity came from Judaism and then Islam trailed behind the two. It's not like these are radically different faiths, they're all related.

 

[Deut 13:1]

... Israel can't be shared?

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have ties there.

Yes, and Christianity and Islam to the best of my knowledge believe in the Torah, and what does the Torah say? To the Jews.

So... why should we share? That's like you owning your land, and me walking into your house and ignoring what the deed says and just saying... "your house can't be Shared?" Me and you both have ties there, you grew up there, I grew up elsewhere but I believe my great-great-great-great-great grandfather might have possibly been where your parents were.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Edit- And Christianity came from Judaism and then Islam trailed behind the two. It's not like these are radically different faiths, they're all related.

Yes, and I'm sure your great-great-great-great-great ancestors shared a boat over to America w/ mine. So we're related.. Mazol tov! When can I move in?

 

[jamaesi]

Yes, and Christianity and Islam to the best of my knowledge believe in the Torah, and what does the Torah say? To the Jews.

So... why should we share? That's like you owning your land, and me walking into your house and ignoring what the deed says and just saying... "your house can't be Shared?" Me and you both have ties there, you grew up there, I grew up elsewhere but I believe my great-great-great-great-great grandfather might have possibly been where your parents were.

I see it more of a kicking your kids out at 18 and shooting them if they try to come back. : P What would be the problem of sharing it with the Christians and Muslims? It's sort of selfish to deny others the right to their holy land.

Yes, and I'm sure your great-great-great-great-great ancestors shared a boat over to America w/ mine. So we're related.. Mazol tov! When can I move in?

They might have, my Jewish grandfather came over about the time of the Holocaust. : P When did yours come over?
You're welcome at my place anytime, it's just a little messy as I just moved though. I still haven't found my bed.



In this I think you seem more concerned with your blood relation to other humans (and why should you have to be related to someone to care about them ) rather than the very special relation Jews, Christians, and Muslims share. We all worship the same G-d, just in unique ways. :bounce

 

[Deut 13:1]

I see it more of a kicking your kids out at 18 and shooting them if they try to come back. : P What would be the problem of sharing it with the Christians and Muslims? It's sort of selfish to deny others the right to their holy land.

Interesting comparison, although we're not kicking you out... In fact, if you look back in history, you'll see when we graciously offered to have Palestiinian state, they flat out refused.

They might have, my Jewish grandfather came over about the time of the Holocaust. : P When did yours come over?

My great grandparents on my mothers side were murdered before they had the chance to escape to America, and my great grandparents on my fathers side we never heard from, we assume they were also murdered.

In this I think you seem more concerned with your blood relation to other humans (and why should you have to be related to someone to care about them ) rather than the very special relation Jews, Christians, and Muslims share. We all worship the same G-d, just in unique ways. :bounce

Possibly, I was just trying to draw a connection to your comparison. You asked why we couldn't share land between 3 groups of people, I gave a practical example of how I view the situation in Israel. You have people who don't want to share, but annihalate you.