Useless2015
Active Member
The same can be said about Muslims and Zakaat.
If i dont pay my taxes in Europe, the IRS will threaten me, take away my belongings and or send me to jail. Is that 'protection money' aswell?
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Muslim Reform Movement
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
The same can be said about Muslims and Zakaat.
If i dont pay my taxes in Europe, the IRS will threaten me, take away my belongings and or send me to jail. Is that 'protection money' aswell?
Useless2015
Active Member
So having sex with the same gender is punishable by death but marrying( and probably having alot more sex) is fine?
dust1n
Zindīq
Useless2015
Active Member
It would be absurd if the OT would speak about gaymarriage seeing how its written well over 2000 years ago...
Useless2015
Active Member
Well in the Netherlands, IRS can freeze your bank account, rob your house and put you in jail.
dust1n
Zindīq
I guess if one owes American taxes, sure. Presumably European countries have their own tax agencies.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Exactly ... agreed. It is absurd to think that the OT says anything about an institution that didn't even exist at the time it was written. And, keep in mind that all sex outside of marriage is considered sinful.
That is a remarkable admission.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
You are missing the point. Taxation should not be based on religious adherence. It is facially discriminatory. But, when everyone pays the SAME TAXES, regardless of their religion, it is completely reasonable.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
That would be a reasonable assessment, as all sex outside of marriage is sinful according to the scripture in question.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Not at all. As others have already pointed out, money raised from zakat has a specific purpose: helping the poor & dispossessed in society. There is no other purpose to the jizyah beyond segregating, penalising and humiliating non-Muslims. The two are not remotely comparable.
If zakat bothers you then perhaps it's time you did some soul-searching and ask yourself why.
False equivalence for two reasons:
- In Western societies you're expected to pay the same taxes as every other citizen. You're not being discriminated against in any way. If you were refusing to pay a special 'Muslim tax' that was placed on you specifically because you were Muslim, and the IRS was threatening you with asset forfeiture, physical violence and/or kidnapping your family then you would have a case.
- Disputing tax liabilities owed is permitted in civilised societies and you have the option of challenging these liabilities via legal avenues. Non-Muslims disputing the jizyah have far fewer options and run the risk of suffering violence as a result of non-payment.
Augustus
…
This is an interesting story as it has an army of Arabs using Roman siege weapons and military tactics, illustrating that it is likely many of the Arabs involved in the early conquests were former Roman auxiliary troops
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
So attack Europeans, attack the Jews, attack America, anything but actually consider the need for Islam to reform.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I guess Christianity has had a bit longer to mature.
Sees
Dragonslayer
So attack Europeans, attack the Jews, attack America, anything but actually consider the need for Islam to reform.
Hard part is Islam being anti-reform foundationally. Out of all well-known and large religions - it has to hold the title for being the most clear cut and set in stone. It isn't as fluid and adaptable as most and it is good, and refreshing, to see Muslims themselves post as such.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I'd say the Enlightenment has pried Christian theology from national governance in many places - meaning Churches have a harder time telling people what to think. I wouldn't say Christianity has matured, more that its ability to influence daily life has been eroded by an increase in secular governance.
Useless2015
Active Member
Does it really matter where?
Useless2015
Active Member
Marriage in the Bible(OT or NT take your pick) is between man and a woman. It never occured to the authors of the Bible to incorporate something like gay marriage because the gays would be stoned to death before ever setting a date, let alone have an actual official wedding like man and woman lol...
dust1n
Zindīq
For whatever point you were trying to make, it makes no difference. Just that the IRS is the American tax agency. While Europe has it's own set of tax agencies.
Useless2015
Active Member
Ofcourse Jizya is also to make the non-muslims feel submissive. To ensure complete authority and loyalty.
But you know, you are making it to be an evil aspect but it's not. I think the actions of Christians and Jews in the past who left Christian nations to live in the Caliphate despite the 'evil' Jizya say a whole lot about how bad Jizya actually is.
It doesn't bother me. I was relating to Zakaat because its discriminatory aswell.
Than why do the rich pay more?