Muslims: Can God Manifest Himself on Earth?

[InvestigateTruth]

Can God Manifest Himself on Earth?

If No, how do you reconcile this verse and Hadith:

"He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord." 13:2

And in Hadith:

"O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He replied, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the full moon on a clear (not cloudy) night?" They replied, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" He said, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?" They replied in the negative. He said, "You will see Allah (your Lord) in the same way. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be gathered and He will order the people to follow what they used to worship. So some of them will follow the sun, some will follow the moon, and some will follow other deities; and only this nation (Muslims) will be left with its hypocrites. Allah will come to them and say, 'I am Your Lord.' They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to them again and say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'You are our Lord.' Allah will call them, and As-Sirat (a bridge) will be laid across Hell and I (Muhammad) shall be the first amongst the Apostles to cross it with my followers. Nobody except the Apostles will then be able to speak and they will be saying then, 'O Allah! Save us. O Allah Save us.'"-Sahih Bukhari 1:770


If Yes, How do you reconcile with this verse:

"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things." 16:103

 

[Sha'irullah]

These narrations do not invalidate Tawhid nor make Allah 'kakhal'qihi' in any shape or form. There are ayah and narrations which do but these are not one of them

 

[InvestigateTruth]

These narrations do not invalidate Tawhid nor make Allah 'kakhal'qihi' in any shape or form.

I didn't say it does. But you did not reply which one. yes or no, and how you reconcile the verses?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Here is a Sahih Hadith, that refers to Christ as "Lord":

Please note how clearly the term Lord and Maseeh (by the term Maseeh, the Return of Christ is intended.) are tied together in the above mentioned Hadith.
This Hadith, and the previous Hadith in OP, seems to call return of Christ as the Manifestation of God on earth:


Narrated Ibn Umar: "We were talking about Hajjat-ul-Wada, while the Prophet was amongst us. We did not know what Hajjat-ul-Wada' signified. The Prophet praised Allah and then mentioned Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal [anti-Christ] and described him extensively, saying "Allah did not send any prophet but that prophet warned his nation of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. Noah and the prophets following him warned (their people) of him. He [Al-Masih] will appear amongst you [among Muhammad's followers], and if it happens that some of his qualities may be hidden from you, but your Lord's State is clear to you and not hidden from you. The Prophet said it thrice. Verily, your Lord is not blind in one eye, while he [Ad-Dajjal] is blind in the right eye which looks like a grape bulging out [of its cluster]. No doubt! Allah has made your blood and your properties sacred to one another like the sanctity of this day of yours, in this town of yours, in this month of yours. "The Prophet added: No doubt! Haven't I conveyed Allah's Message to you?" They replied, "Yes," The Prophet said thrice, "O Allah! Be witness for it." The Prophet added, "Woe to you!, May Allah be merciful to you! Do not become infidels after me by cutting the necks [throats] of one another." -Sahih Bukhari 5:685

Any ideas?

 

[seeking4truth]

"He [Al-Masih] will appear amongst you [among Muhammad's followers], and if it happens that some of his qualities may be hidden from you, but your Lord's State is clear to you and not hidden from you."

I cannot see where the Messiah is called Lord.
I see reference to Messiah and also to 'your Lord' in comparison. I understand this to mean that some may not recognise the person of the Messiah but Muslims will not confuse the Messiah with Allah.

I cannot agree with you that the term Messiah is intended to mean the return of Jesus himself but rather the return of someone in the role of Messiah.
Prophets and Messiahs are sent by Allah at appropriate times but the same person does not return. Why would Allah take Jesus out of Paradise?

 

[Sha'irullah]

I didn't say it does. But you did not reply which one. yes or no, and how you reconcile the verses?

I believe that a Supreme Being can manifest himself on Earth but I also believe he never has nor ever will.
To do so would break the laws of physics the deity created and considering the absolute sovereign nature of this being I doubt he would ever wish to break them.

If God is omnipresent and omniscient then it has no need for such a desire to become anthropomorphic.

 

[Assad91]

Where again did that hadith say Christ is Lord? Talk of grasping. And Allah says in Quran, he is nothing like his creation. We are not anthropomorphic.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Where again did that hadith say Christ is Lord? Talk of grasping. And Allah says in Quran, he is nothing like his creation. We are not anthropomorphic.

My point exactly :yes:

 

[Breathe]

I don't see anything in that Hadith to suggest a literal reading of 'seeing' God in a physical sense.

Rather, He will be known, clearly, undeniably.

 

[Sleeppy]

I see 'if' with no conclusion, being followed by 'but.' How are you supposed to read that?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I cannot see where the Messiah is called Lord.

How do you explain the part in bold:

Narrated Ibn Umar: "We were talking about Hajjat-ul-Wada, while the Prophet was amongst us. We did not know what Hajjat-ul-Wada' signified. The Prophet praised Allah and then mentioned Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal [anti-Christ] and described him extensively, saying "Allah did not send any prophet but that prophet warned his nation of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. Noah and the prophets following him warned (their people) of him. He [Al-Masih] will appear amongst you [among Muhammad's followers], and if it happens that some of his qualities may be hidden from you, but your Lord's State is clear to you and not hidden from you. The Prophet said it thrice. Verily, your Lord is not blind in one eye, while he [Ad-Dajjal] is blind in the right eye which looks like a grape bulging out [of its cluster]. No doubt! Allah has made your blood and your properties sacred to one another like the sanctity of this day of yours, in this town of yours, in this month of yours. "The Prophet added: No doubt! Haven't I conveyed Allah's Message to you?" They replied, "Yes," The Prophet said thrice, "O Allah! Be witness for it." The Prophet added, "Woe to you!, May Allah be merciful to you! Do not become infidels after me by cutting the necks [throats] of one another." -Sahih Bukhari 5:685

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Where again did that hadith say Christ is Lord? Talk of grasping. And Allah says in Quran, he is nothing like his creation. We are not anthropomorphic.

How do you explain the part in bold:

Narrated Ibn Umar: "We were talking about Hajjat-ul-Wada, while the Prophet was amongst us. We did not know what Hajjat-ul-Wada' signified. The Prophet praised Allah and then mentioned Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal [anti-Christ] and described him extensively, saying "Allah did not send any prophet but that prophet warned his nation of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. Noah and the prophets following him warned (their people) of him. He [Al-Masih] will appear amongst you [among Muhammad's followers], and if it happens that some of his qualities may be hidden from you, but your Lord's State is clear to you and not hidden from you. The Prophet said it thrice. Verily, your Lord is not blind in one eye, while he [Ad-Dajjal] is blind in the right eye which looks like a grape bulging out [of its cluster]. No doubt! Allah has made your blood and your properties sacred to one another like the sanctity of this day of yours, in this town of yours, in this month of yours. "The Prophet added: No doubt! Haven't I conveyed Allah's Message to you?" They replied, "Yes," The Prophet said thrice, "O Allah! Be witness for it." The Prophet added, "Woe to you!, May Allah be merciful to you! Do not become infidels after me by cutting the necks [throats] of one another." -Sahih Bukhari 5:685


Also how do you explain the part in bold in this Hadith:

"O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He replied, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the full moon on a clear (not cloudy) night?" They replied, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" He said, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?" They replied in the negative. He said, "You will see Allah (your Lord) in the same way. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be gathered and He will order the people to follow what they used to worship. So some of them will follow the sun, some will follow the moon, and some will follow other deities; and only this nation (Muslims) will be left with its hypocrites. Allah will come to them and say, 'I am Your Lord.' They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to them again and say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'You are our Lord.' Allah will call them, and As-Sirat (a bridge) will be laid across Hell and I (Muhammad) shall be the first amongst the Apostles to cross it with my followers. Nobody except the Apostles will then be able to speak and they will be saying then, 'O Allah! Save us. O Allah Save us.'"-Sahih Bukhari 1:770

 

[Assad91]

How do you explain the part in bold:

Narrated Ibn Umar: "We were talking about Hajjat-ul-Wada, while the Prophet was amongst us. We did not know what Hajjat-ul-Wada' signified. The Prophet praised Allah and then mentioned Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal [anti-Christ] and described him extensively, saying "Allah did not send any prophet but that prophet warned his nation of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. Noah and the prophets following him warned (their people) of him. He [Al-Masih] will appear amongst you [among Muhammad's followers], and if it happens that some of his qualities may be hidden from you, but your Lord's State is clear to you and not hidden from you. The Prophet said it thrice. Verily, your Lord is not blind in one eye, while he [Ad-Dajjal] is blind in the right eye which looks like a grape bulging out [of its cluster]. No doubt! Allah has made your blood and your properties sacred to one another like the sanctity of this day of yours, in this town of yours, in this month of yours. "The Prophet added: No doubt! Haven't I conveyed Allah's Message to you?" They replied, "Yes," The Prophet said thrice, "O Allah! Be witness for it." The Prophet added, "Woe to you!, May Allah be merciful to you! Do not become infidels after me by cutting the necks [throats] of one another." -Sahih Bukhari 5:685

Dajjal claims to be Lord. When he is not. Our Lord is not blind, he has no physical traits.

Take a step back from hadith and read Quran. Allah says he is not like his creation. Interpretation of hadith can not conflict with Quran

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I don't see anything in that Hadith to suggest a literal reading of 'seeing' God in a physical sense.

Rather, He will be known, clearly, undeniably.

Then how do you explain the part in Bold:

"O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He replied, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the full moon on a clear (not cloudy) night?" They replied, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" He said, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?" They replied in the negative. He said, "You will see Allah (your Lord) in the same way. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be gathered and He will order the people to follow what they used to worship. So some of them will follow the sun, some will follow the moon, and some will follow other deities; and only this nation (Muslims) will be left with its hypocrites. Allah will come to them and say, 'I am Your Lord.' They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to them again and say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'You are our Lord.' Allah will call them, and As-Sirat (a bridge) will be laid across Hell and I (Muhammad) shall be the first amongst the Apostles to cross it with my followers. Nobody except the Apostles will then be able to speak and they will be saying then, 'O Allah! Save us. O Allah Save us.'"-Sahih Bukhari 1:770

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Dajjal claims to be Lord. When he is not. Our Lord is not blind, he has no physical traits.

Take a step back from hadith and read Quran. Allah says he is not like his creation. Interpretation of hadith can not conflict with Quran

Ok, let's again look at the verse of Quran. this was the verse of Quran:
"He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord." Quran 13:2

How do you explain in a practical way meeting with Lord? You believe that Allah would come on the day of Resurrection and you will meet Him, don't you?
(or is this belief not Islamic?)

 

[Assad91]

Ok, let's again look at the verse of Quran. this was the verse of Quran:
"He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord." Quran 13:2

How do you explain in a practical way meeting with Lord? You believe that Allah would come on the day of Resurrection and you will meet Him, don't you?
(or is this belief not Islamic?)

How would you interpret the verse to mean in light of Allah saying he doesn't resemble his creation?!?! -
Remember, Qur'an doesn't contradict itself, unless you think Allah contradicts himself (astigfurllah).

 

[InvestigateTruth]

How would you interpret the verse to mean in light of Allah saying he doesn't resemble his creation?!?! -
Remember, Qur'an doesn't contradict itself, unless you think Allah contradicts himself (astigfurllah).

(OK, I will explain my interpretation in another post eventually) I would like you quote the verse from Quran that says Allah does not resemble His Creation? (Not that I disagree, but I am not sure exactly which verse)

By the way, here is another verse, that I think is a key to interpret those verses and Hadithes regarding meeting with Allah:

"they shall be shut out as by a veil from their Lord on that day" Quran 83:15

Do you see a similarity between this verse, and the part of the Hadith in bold:

"O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He replied, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the full moon on a clear (not cloudy) night?" They replied, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" He said, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?" They replied in the negative. He said, "You will see Allah (your Lord) in the same way. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be gathered and He will order the people to follow what they used to worship. So some of them will follow the sun, some will follow the moon, and some will follow other deities; and only this nation (Muslims) will be left with its hypocrites. Allah will come to them and say, 'I am Your Lord.' They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to them again and say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'You are our Lord.' Allah will call them, and As-Sirat (a bridge) will be laid across Hell and I (Muhammad) shall be the first amongst the Apostles to cross it with my followers. Nobody except the Apostles will then be able to speak and they will be saying then, 'O Allah! Save us. O Allah Save us.'"-Sahih Bukhari 1:770

I am specifically saying that the Hadith and verse, both suggest, People will not recognize Allah, because they are shut out as by a veil.

 

[anshu]

Can God Manifest Himself on Earth?

If No, how do you reconcile this verse and Hadith:

"He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord." 13:2

And in Hadith:

"O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He replied, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the full moon on a clear (not cloudy) night?" They replied, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" He said, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?" They replied in the negative. He said, "You will see Allah (your Lord) in the same way. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be gathered and He will order the people to follow what they used to worship. So some of them will follow the sun, some will follow the moon, and some will follow other deities; and only this nation (Muslims) will be left with its hypocrites. Allah will come to them and say, 'I am Your Lord.' They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to them again and say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'You are our Lord.' Allah will call them, and As-Sirat (a bridge) will be laid across Hell and I (Muhammad) shall be the first amongst the Apostles to cross it with my followers. Nobody except the Apostles will then be able to speak and they will be saying then, 'O Allah! Save us. O Allah Save us.'"-Sahih Bukhari 1:770


If Yes, How do you reconcile with this verse:

"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things." 16:103

Allah can manifest himself on the Earth, but He will not do that.
Regarding the quote from Qura'an you qouted, it refers to meeting of believers with Allah on the Day of Judgment.
Believers can see God on Friday in the life after death. It comes one of the Qura'anic verses that Allah will show His face to the believers in life after death.(didnt remember the verse no.) This show that the Allah has a face but when we say Allah has a face, then immediately non-believer may come and say that we are contradicting Surah Al Ikhlas 112:4 "There is nothing like Him". To the clarification we are not contradicting 112:4. No doubt we believe Allah has face but the face will not be similar to anyone or anything in this universe or anywhere else.
I have also seen some other posts of yours quoting the Qura'anic verses and Ahadiths regarding meeting of Allah with people. I hope this clears all your doubts.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Allah can manifest himself on the Earth, but He will not do that.

Please provide a verse from Quran for what you say above (if there is one!)

Regarding the quote from Qura'an you qouted, it refers to meeting of believers with Allah on the Day of Judgment.

Yes. So, on the day of Judgment, would Allah Manifest Himself on earth? Where this meeting would take place? Which country, or place?

Believers can see God on Friday in the life after death.

How would the believers see God, when Quran and Bible both say, God is invisible?

"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things." Quran 16:103

"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen." 1 Timothy 1:17

It comes one of the Qura'anic verses that Allah will show His face to the believers in life after death.(didnt remember the verse no.) This show that the Allah has a face but when we say Allah has a face, then immediately non-believer may come and say that we are contradicting Surah Al Ikhlas 112:4 "There is nothing like Him". To the clarification we are not contradicting 112:4. No doubt we believe Allah has face but the face will not be similar to anyone or anything in this universe or anywhere else.
I have also seen some other posts of yours quoting the Qura'anic verses and Ahadiths regarding meeting of Allah with people. I hope this clears all your doubts.

Ok, Allah's Face. Is it visible? Quran says He is invisible. How can you see the invisible God?

 

[Breathe]

Then how do you explain the part in Bold:

[...] Allah will come to them and say, 'I am Your Lord.' They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. [...]

To me, personally, I think it says something along these lines:

God will make Himself known to people (through their hearts, dreams, signs, etc), and not all will recognise Him easily, expecting another sign that's more personalised, possibly even looking for a physical sign. God will once again make His presence known to them, and they will know Him.

The second part, I think is about the Day of Judgement and symbolic of why messengers were sent: a 'bridge' (a way across, a guide) across 'Hell' will appear, Hell symbolising unbelief and ignorance. On the Day of Judgement, Muhammad and the other apostles (rusul; messengers) -- the people who surrendered to God and did his bidding -- will cross it first -- that is, be rewarded first, once again. Once again, people will follow the messengers across, going away from Hell into Paradise, knowing God, which symbolises why messengers were sent in the first place.