Muslims do not worship the same god as the Christians

[cablescavenger]

Could you explain that further, please? If Islam was not founded until several hundred years after Jesus' death, how could He have been a Muslim?

I see Jews, Muslims and Christians as branches of the same faith, in much the same you would see LDS and Jehovah Witness to be Christian.

Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the Abrahamic faiths, because they all stem from the same humble origins, there are differences between them, but also many similarities.

 

[kai]

I see Jews, Muslims and Christians as branches of the same faith, in much the same you would see LDS and Jehovah Witness to be Christian.

Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the Abrahamic faiths, because they all stem from the same humble origins, there are differences between them, but also many similarities.

Islam claims to be the original religion in fact, the only true religion not a branch of any other. All the prophets are of Islam from Adam to Mohammed,including Abraham, even new born babies are of Islam. All other "Abrahamic" religions are corrupted versions of Islam.

 

[waitasec]

I asked a Muslim if humans need an intercessor between them and God, which a Christian says Christ is the intercessor, and the Muslim said that we do not need an intercession between us and God.

This to me tells me that it is not the same God which these two faiths worship.

I'd like someone to ellaborate on the intercession concerning Islam, but if I'm correct in that simple manner than we cannot possibly be worshipping the same God because the Christian God is necessarily so unfathomable and holy that mankind cannot possibly approach Him. Likewise, such a God is so beyond human comprehension that He cannot directly communicate with us.

I don't want my specific definitions to spark too much debate, I'm not sure how to describe Allah, if no intercession is required, I've not thought what this means for God in terms of a logical argument, is that the "most holy" God possible? Is that the most infallible? The maximally great? etc?

I think that the condition of intercession means the two gods are contradictory thus cannot be the same.

your just peeing against the wind with this one
pssst, i'm not surprised

 

[waitasec]

It's possible they are not worshipping the same God because the natures of their Gods are different.

This should be a pretty basic premise, if something is blue and something is red they are not the same color.

how can you tell it's not the same god?
is one sitting in a green throne and the other in a red one?
does one have dark hair and the other is blond, really how can you tell?

 

[Reverend Rick]

The same god eh?

Yes, the same God. You keep missing the point that Jesus prayed to his father.

GOD THE FATHER, IS THE SAME GOD WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

How can there be a trinity if God the father and Jesus the son are referred to as different gods?

Christians believe no one goes to the father except through the son. If they are one and the same, why would we be going through one person to get to the other?

I believe they are different aspects of the same God not different gods.

Jesus is the son of God the father, the same God Jews and Muslims pray to.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

This should be a pretty basic premise, if something is blue and something is red they are not the same color.

If a person is wearing a robe of blue and red, then it is silly to argue over whether that person is blue or red. The Abrahamic God is the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Just because each perceive him differently doesn't mean he's different, it just means we are.

 

[kai]

Yes, the same God. You keep missing the point that Jesus prayed to his father.

GOD THE FATHER, IS THE SAME GOD WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

How can there be a trinity if God the father and Jesus the son are referred to as different gods?

Christians believe no one goes to the father except through the son. If they are one and the same, why would we be going through one person to get to the other?

I believe they are different aspects of the same God not different gods.

Jesus is the son of God the father, the same God Jews and Muslims pray to.

But Rik the Muslim god doesnt have a son? the Muslim God is Father to no one, He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

 

[kai]

If a person is wearing a robe of blue and red, then it is silly to argue over whether that person is blue or red. The Abrahamic God is the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Just because each perceive him differently doesn't mean he's different, it just means we are.

Each perceives him according to his revelation, If revelation is irrelevant to the God of islam, then Christians would be able to enter Paradise but they cannot for they are commiting shirk.

I often wonder why the almighty worries about non existent deities.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I often wonder why the almighty worries about non existent deities.

He doesn't, we do.

 

[kai]

He doesn't, we do.

Yes i agree! if you disregard revelation.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Yes i agree! if you disregard revelation.

I mostly do. Revelation is such a relative term.

 

[Reverend Rick]

But Rik the Muslim god doesnt have a son? the Muslim God is Father to no one, He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

The Muslim God is the God of Jacob and Isaac.
The Jewish God is the God of Jacob and Isaac.
The Christian God is the God of Jacob and Isaac.

If all three religions agreed on everything, we would be one religion.

I'm not sure who has what right or wrong or if it even matters.

That is up to God all mighty IMHO.

Jews don't believe in Jesus.

Muslims believe Jesus was virgin born and a prophet but not the son of God.

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God.

I don't care about the small differences between religions, what I care about is we are all praying to the same God.

God the father who created all things IMHO.

God the father who spoke to Adam, Noah and Moses IMHO.

I believe you can pray to Allah (PBUH) or to God, it does not matter because there is only one God who hears our prayers no matter what name you pray in.

 

[cablescavenger]

Islam claims to be the original religion in fact, the only true religion not a branch of any other. All the prophets are of Islam from Adam to Mohammed,including Abraham, even new born babies are of Islam. All other "Abrahamic" religions are corrupted versions of Islam.

Yup Kai, they all think they are the true faith.

As an atheist, I don't believe any of them are true, so supporting the validity of one claim over another would be a misnomer to me.

In essence, to me they all fell out of the same tree, which branch is longest and truest I will wait for evidence of, if it comes.

 

[kai]

The Muslim God is the God of Jacob and Isaac.
The Jewish God is the God of Jacob and Isaac.
The Christian God is the God of Jacob and Isaac.

If all three religions agreed on everything, we would be one religion.

I'm not sure who has what right or wrong or if it even matters.

That is up to God all mighty IMHO.

Jews don't believe in Jesus.

Muslims believe Jesus was virgin born and a prophet but not the son of God.

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God.

I don't care about the small differences between religions, what I care about is we are all praying to the same God.

God the father who created all things IMHO.

God the father who spoke to Adam, Noah and Moses IMHO.

I believe you can pray to Allah (PBUH) or to God, it does not matter because there is only one God who hears our prayers no matter what name you pray in.

so you have created your own God?

 

[kai]

Yup Kai, they all think they are the true faith.

As an atheist, I don't believe any of them are true, so supporting the validity of one claim over another would be a misnomer to me.

In essence, to me they all fell out of the same tree, which branch is longest and truest I will wait for evidence of, if it comes.

i agree, but its an interesting discussion.

 

[Reverend Rick]

so you have created your own God?

I believe we will just have to agree to disagree my friend. The thing is, I believe we will all end up in heaven together where believing there are different gods to me means some of us will not be there together in heaven.

I truely believe I will be in heaven with my Christian and Muslim friends. :yes:

 

[kai]

I believe we will just have to agree to disagree my friend. The thing is, I believe we will all end up in heaven together where believing there are different gods to me means some of us will not be there together in heaven.

I truely believe I will be in heaven with my Christian and Muslim friends. :yes:

I hope you do Rick i really do

 

[cablescavenger]

I hope you do Rick i really do

and I will live in dirt with the bugs :yes:

 

[ID_Neon]

But since the gods claimed to be the same have contradictory characteristics, have we decided those characteristics are not contradictory?

I mean a lot of this rests on the statement by a Muslim that God can do whatever He wants, and that includes change the "rules" so to paraphrase. If this allows Him to be infallible that's a nail in the coffin of "same god"arguments.

If Allah cannot be fallible (must be infallible) then you have a hard time explaining the incongruence of the laws of Abraham and the laws of Moses and the laws of Mohammad (ignoring the whole Jesus tangent!)

 

[Averroes]

Yes! if you totally ignore scripture and revelation.

Do you doubt the following verse?

"All praise is due to God Lord of the universe"

Surah 1:2

In the Qur'an there is a verse that says:

QUL'HU ALLAHU AHAD

"SAY HE (ALLAH) IS ONE"

Despite scriptural differences Muslims believe there is one primary ruler of all that exist. One being. One mind. One great force that is infinite, uncaused, and beyond comprehension. One diety. How can any Christian dispute this Islamic claim?