Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Looncall]

islam teach allah is creator, creator has right to decide how we should live. Because allah ask to beat wife, no wrong to do it. But if not asked, it is wrong. I answered in my previous post incase quran is ignored, but why to ignore when it has right to dictate us?

Thank you very much for your candid response. I am grateful for such a clear statement.

It may be an error to think that islam and the quran are products of a god. How can you be sure that they are, particularly when, as you agree, they promote immoral acts?

 

[TruthSpeaker]

I disagree that the Qur'an allows men to slap their wives, and I've proven why I believe that.

ssainhu did you contacted debater for the translation help?

the hadith has more to say about the context, but its arabic, ask DS to translate if he is serious in this issue.

and pls dont post again hadith's about muhammads personal opinion to contradict this, as this clearly says its allah who permitted to hit.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

confirm from him it asks to beat or not. Whatever he says just post it here.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

\ How can you be sure that they are, particularly when, as you agree, they promote immoral acts?

looncall, it is not immoral because allah is creator so he has right to dictate. Also he gives us reward in afterlife for our obedience.

 

[gnostic]

Islam teach why wife beating is needed.
islam dont allow women to take responsiblities because women are not capable to do it because God created men to excel over women. Respobsiblities means to run family in good way, so he have right to discipline his wife if she ever deviates. Islam say, if shared same responsibilities with women that family will ruin 100%.

What a load of crap! :foot:

 

[Sakeenah]

no
Islam teach why wife beating is needed.
islam dont allow women to take responsiblities because women are not capable to do it because God created men to excel over women. Respobsiblities means to run family in good way, so he have right to discipline his wife if she ever deviates. Islam say, if shared same responsibilities with women that family will ruin 100%.

I wasn't planning to post anymore in this thread..but I just wanted to say Truthspeaker ittaqilah..know that saying things about islam based on your desires..count as lying about the religion of Allah.. Since when do women in islam not have any responsibilities?? Seriously who taught you this?? You know that there are many verses and ahadith that clearly show that women have rights AND responsibilities

and one of our responsibilities is to seek knowledge..the prophet s.a.w mentioned in a sahih hadith ' 3ilmun fareedatun 3ala kuli muslim wa muslima.(seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every muslim and muslima)

and the first ayat (verse) that was revealed was 'iqra' read..And I hope sisters take this responsibility.. so that they can see that statements like yours aren't correct in islam and they won't blindfollow people like you

 

[not nom]

looncall, it is not immoral because allah is creator so he has right to dictate.

nah.

not even god can polish a turd sufficiently.

 

[Looncall]

What a load of crap! :foot:

I am reminded of Stephen Weinburg's aphorism about religion being needed to make good people do bad things. We seem to have an excellent example here. Truthspeaker evidently knows that beating people is wrong, but will go ahead because his religion tells him to.

 

[Sakeenah]

I am reminded of Stephen Weinburg's aphorism about religion being needed to make good people do bad things. We seem to have an excellent example here. Truthspeaker evidently knows that beating people is wrong, but will go ahead because his religion tells him to.

islam doesn't tell him that..he is using religion as an excuse..if a man beats his wife and is opressive it's because he's weak it doesn't have anything to do with islam

 

[beenie]

islam doesn't tell him that..he is using religion as an excuse..if a man beats his wife and is opressive it's because he's weak it doesn't have anything to do with islam

Spot on, Muslima!
I too keep saying that I'm done with this nonsensical thread, but I can't let this member spread lies about what Islam teaches.

 

[Debater Slayer]

- Islam doesn't allow mistreating the wife, at all.
- The Qur'an/Hadith never said that it's allowed to "slap" a wife.
- If the Qur'an/Hadith were "evil", wouldn't you think the world would be filled with psychos, seeing that there are hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide?

 

[Gharib]

to the muslims, it is haram to speak your ignorant mind regarding matters of islam, that goes for everyone. the best way is to present evidence from scholars. none of us are scholars to be commenting the verses of the Qur'an or the hadith and make them fit our own thinking because we disagree with what might be true or because we are ignorant of what is true. please, all of you stop with what is going on here, after all, an arrogant mind will never accept being wrong, again this goes both ways, i am not taking anyones side, i take Allahs side.

and to the staff, can someone close down this thread as it is misrepresenting the teachings of islam there should be a rule against members posting misleading information about any religion, it is a religious forum after all.

 

[Debater Slayer]

to the muslims, it is haram to speak your ignorant mind regarding matters of islam, that goes for everyone. the best way is to present evidence from scholars. none of us are scholars to be commenting the verses of the Qur'an or the hadith and make them fit our own thinking because we disagree with what might be true or because we are ignorant of what is true. please, all of you stop with what is going on here, after all, an arrogant mind will never accept being wrong, again this goes both ways, i am not taking anyones side, i take Allahs side.

and to the staff, can someone close down this thread as it is misrepresenting the teachings of islam there should be a rule against members posting misleading information about any religion, it is a religious forum after all.

Thanks for the reminder, brother.

We were just trying to defend Islam from defamation, whether intentionally done or not. But thank you for taking the time to post this great reminder. :yes:

 

[TruthSpeaker]

Seriously who taught you this?? You know that there are many verses and ahadith that clearly show that women have rights AND responsibilities

and one of our responsibilities is to seek knowledge..the prophet s.a.w mentioned in a sahih hadith ' 3ilmun fareedatun 3ala kuli muslim wa muslima.(seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every muslim and muslima)

and the first ayat (verse) that was revealed was 'iqra' read..And I hope sisters take this responsibility.. so that they can see that statements like yours aren't correct in islam and they won't blindfollow people like you

responsibility = resposiblity to run family ie: leadership

dont post anything from muhammad to contradict allah, ok?
who is your god? allah or mohammad?
Which is the book of commandments? quran or hadith?

i dont need to see any hadith that are not about quran because that all are opinion of muhammad alone but not allah. 4.34 is the example for muhammad is not always right, so allah corrected muhmmad revealing verse 4.34.


Here is hadith regarding quran 4.34

(34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are Qanitat, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, and beat them, but if they return to obedience, do not seek a means against them. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.) Allah said,
﴿الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ﴾
(Men are the protectors and maintainers of women,) meaning, the man is responsible for the woman, and he is her maintainer, caretaker and leader who disciplines her if she deviates.
﴿بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ﴾
(because Allah has made one of them to excel the other,) meaning, because men excel over women and are better than them for certain tasks. This is why prophethood was exclusive of men, as well as other important positions of leadership. The Prophet said,
«لَنْ يُفْلِحَ قَوْمٌ وَلَّوْا أَمْرَهُمُ امْرَأَة»
(People who appoint a woman to be their leader, will never achieve success.) Al-Bukhari recorded this Hadith. Such is the case with appointing women as judges or on other positions of leadership.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Do Not Wish for the Things Which Allah has Made Some Others to Excel In

I am here to ready correct myself if you teach another interpretations. Thank you .

 

[Sakeenah]

to the muslims, it is haram to speak your ignorant mind regarding matters of islam, that goes for everyone. the best way is to present evidence from scholars. none of us are scholars to be commenting the verses of the Qur'an or the hadith and make them fit our own thinking because we disagree with what might be true or because we are ignorant of what is true. please, all of you stop with what is going on here, after all, an arrogant mind will never accept being wrong, again this goes both ways, i am not taking anyones side, i take Allahs side.

and to the staff, can someone close down this thread as it is misrepresenting the teachings of islam there should be a rule against members posting misleading information about any religion, it is a religious forum after all.

Barakalahu feek for the reminder and I agree it would be good if this thread could be closed

 

[Sakeenah]

responsibility = resposiblity to run family ie: leadership

dont post anything from muhammad to contradict allah, ok?
who is your god? allah or mohammad?
Which is the book of commandments? quran or hadith?

i dont need to see any hadith that are not about quran because that all are opinion of muhammad alone but not allah. 4.34 is the example for muhammad is not always right, so allah corrected muhmmad revealing verse 4.34.


Here is hadith regarding quran 4.34

(34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are Qanitat, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, and beat them, but if they return to obedience, do not seek a means against them. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.) Allah said,
﴿الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ﴾
(Men are the protectors and maintainers of women,) meaning, the man is responsible for the woman, and he is her maintainer, caretaker and leader who disciplines her if she deviates.
﴿بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ﴾
(because Allah has made one of them to excel the other,) meaning, because men excel over women and are better than them for certain tasks. This is why prophethood was exclusive of men, as well as other important positions of leadership. The Prophet said,
«لَنْ يُفْلِحَ قَوْمٌ وَلَّوْا أَمْرَهُمُ امْرَأَة»
(People who appoint a woman to be their leader, will never achieve success.) Al-Bukhari recorded this Hadith. Such is the case with appointing women as judges or on other positions of leadership.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Do Not Wish for the Things Which Allah has Made Some Others to Excel In

im here to ready correct myself if you teach another interpretations. Thank you .

Akhi my respond to this is.. the advise of brother eselam here I copied it in case you didn't read it.. :

to the muslims, it is haram to speak your ignorant mind regarding matters of islam, that goes for everyone. the best way is to present evidence from scholars. none of us are scholars to be commenting the verses of the Qur'an or the hadith and make them fit our own thinking because we disagree with what might be true or because we are ignorant of what is true. please, all of you stop with what is going on here, after all, an arrogant mind will never accept being wrong, again this goes both ways, i am not taking anyones side, i take Allahs side.

and last thing I will say is ' Allahu a3lam'

 

[TruthSpeaker]

- Islam doesn't allow mistreating the wife, at all.

debater, i already corrected myself, islam dont ask to slap but allow to beat.

debater, are you ready to help me, see post 1640

 

[Debater Slayer]

debater, i already corrected myself, islam dont ask to slap but allow to beat.

debater, are you ready to help me, see post 1640

I'm with the current consensus that this thread should now be closed.

And in the end, Allah knows best.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

I'm with the current consensus that this thread should now be closed.

why cant we wait till you translate that hadith?

about allah allow wife beating or not, go to below link

Google Translate

you can see " God has authorized you to hit a painful blow, do not break her bones, it turns to"

ssainhu, impressed this time?

 

[Debater Slayer]

why cant we wait till you translate that hadith?

about allah allow wife beating or not go to below link

Google Translate

you can see " God has authorized you to hit a painful blow, do not break her bones, it turns to"

ssainhu, impressed this time?

Google Translate has never been that good anyway, but no, it doesn't mean "painful blow".

I'm stepping out of this thread. Thanks to everyone who read this thread and participated productively in it.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

Google Translate has never been that good anyway, but no, it doesn't mean "painful blow".

I'm stepping out of this thread. Thanks to everyone who read this thread and participated productively in it.

then translate yourselves and let us know that allahs allows beating or not.

there are also words like "dont break her bones" it dont mean beating?

now see, like what i said everytime, these people wont accept the truth in islam even after providing real proof they asked for. Now they are saying no one of us eligible to understand what those verses mean.

This thread passed 150+ pages because everytime when godobeyer provided proof with hadith about allah revealing quran, these people refuted it with hadiths on muhammads own teaching. Every muslim know it is such a blunder to refute hadiths on allah revealing quran, using hadiths on muhmmads own teaching. The blame not goes to godobeyer.