Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[TruthSpeaker]

First off, if you're still talking about that one concerning retaliation, it is quite clearly addressing the act of retaliation, not condoning the act of the husband in the first place. Secondly, are you saying that you think Allah has no issue with beating a wife at all? Regardless of any "rebelling"? Do you think men should be able to beat their wives any time they feel like it?

first off all, when interpreting context in hadith you should verify if it is match with quran verse or not.
anyway draka, i have posted link to arabic hadith for DS to translate to confirm if allah commands to beat or not, you should wait.

 

[beenie]

you are correct. anyway, it that verse allah has no problem with beating wife. it wonders me to believe he has problem with beating only when wife rebels.

Not sure what you mean...you admit the word can mean forsake, yet still say Allah meant beat.

Thanks ssainhu, I will continue down this line for education. I feel that (like you do) we are going to get no further in this thread. It has been refreshing to meet here religious individuals who are willing to see reason, hence I want to probe it further (outwith this thread ).

I honestly cannot see them agreeing to "not beating" because that is in fact what they want to do, they want to hold authority, Too many, including non-muslims have presented facts, yet they who choose to remain in their own world wont see reason, lost cause after so many posts I think.

Thank you for this; on that note, I'm off for some well-earned sleep. I'm sure this thread will still be flourishing tomorrow.

 

[Draka]

draka, i have posted link to arabic hadith for DS to translate to confirm if allah commands to beat or not, you should wait.

I thought you said not to use hadiths. I thought you were only interested in what the Quran has to say. Why is it not okay for others to post hadiths, but okay for you?

 

[TruthSpeaker]

I thought you said not to use hadiths. I thought you were only interested in what the Quran has to say. Why is it not okay for others to post hadiths, but okay for you?

why dont you draka? i have said here thousand times that hadith is not a book of commandments, quran is. Hadith just reports the contexts, it dont teach to follow what muhammad said in it. If anything unsure in quran verse only you can rely on hadith to find the context or something or never use hadith. I have only used here hadith to present the context not the comandments. Quran 4.34 is from allah, hadith not reports allah contradicts himself about beating wife.

 

[Daviso452]

I love how everyone just ignored my comment.

 

[Draka]

why dont you draka? i have said here thousand times that hadith is not a book of commandments, quran is. Hadith just reports the contexts, it dont teach to follow what muhammad said in it. If anything unsure in quran verse only you can rely on hadith to find the context or something or never use hadith. I have only used here hadith to present the context not the comandments.

And yet when others posts hadiths in support of their interpretations and views you condemn them for going by hadiths and not Quran. If you use hadiths to back up your interpretations of the Quran then how are you any different than those whom you argue against?

 

[TruthSpeaker]

And yet when others posts hadiths in support of their interpretations and views you condemn them for going by hadiths and not Quran. If you use hadiths to back up your interpretations of the Quran then how are you any different than those whom you argue against?

quran is from allah, not muhammad. Did they post from hadith about allah condemning beating wife, draka? yes muhammad condemns. But what muhammads personal opinion is not at all valid in islam if it contradicts quran.


this is reason why i asked enlighten to go learn what is hadith and quran before posting some rubbish here. She was using muhammads teaching to contradict allah

 

[Draka]

quran is from allah, not muhammad. Did they post from hadith about allah condemning beating wife, draka? yes muhammad condemns. But what muhammads personal opinion is not at all valid in islam if it contradicts quran.

So, you are against Muhammed? You do not think his words have worth? If Muhammed's words do not have weight, then why would he have been picked as a messenger by Allah? Did Allah make a mistake in picking him as a messenger? Do you believe Allah makes mistakes? If he does not, and did not, in his choice of Muhammed, then why should Muhammed's words not have great weight? You seem to choose to disregard Muhammed's words because they seem to contradict your understanding of the Quran. Was not his mission to bring understanding of the Word? By questioning him are you not questioning Allah?

 

[TruthSpeaker]

So, you are against Muhammed? You do not think his words have worth? If Muhammed's words do not have weight, then why would he have been picked as a messenger by Allah? Did Allah make a mistake in picking him as a messenger? Do you believe Allah makes mistakes? If he does not, and did not, in his choice of Muhammed, then why should Muhammed's words not have great weight? You seem to choose to disregard Muhammed's words because they seem to contradict your understanding of the Quran. Was not his mission to bring understanding of the Word? By questioning him are you not questioning Allah?

i will answer this, but let us dont get away from the objective this thread. First we should confirm if wife beating is allowed in islam. Prophet muhammad( peace be upon him) is worth following is another topic which too requires a lot to debate.

 

[Daviso452]

Point taken. How about you continue where we left off?

 

[Looncall]

first off all, when interpreting context in hadith you should verify if it is match with quran verse or not.
anyway draka, i have posted link to arabic hadith for DS to translate to confirm if allah commands to beat or not, you should wait.

I have asked this before, of either you or Godobeyer, I forget which: Do you think, considering only your own personal sense of right and wrong and ignoring books, that it is right for anyone to beat their wife?

 

[Songbird]

I swore this was the coffee v. tea thread?

Totally a fence-straddler here. I like my hot cuppa sumpins, whate'er they may be! (I'm so busy today I had no time for the letter "v".)

 

[beenie]

The Quran allows men to slap their wives. And the bible says homosexuals are immoral. There is something wrong with every religion. Do what many people do: just ignore that part of the text.

Either way you're not making it any more believable.

I disagree that the Qur'an allows men to slap their wives, and I've proven why I believe that.

I love how everyone just ignored my comment.

I was sleeping. I disagree with your comment.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The Quran allows men to slap their wives. And the bible says homosexuals are immoral. There is something wrong with every religion. Do what many people do: just ignore that part of the text.

Either way you're not making it any more believable.

It doesn't, and most of this thread has been going around that. I and others have already posted proof of the Qur'an not allowing that at all.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Afghan Girl Tortured by Husband - The Daily Beast

 

[beenie]

Afghan Girl Tortured by Husband - The Daily Beast

That's a horrible story, but I must ask what that has to do with this conversation. Spousal abuse is universal, and it's deplorable and inexcusable no matter the geography.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

I have asked this before, of either you or Godobeyer, I forget which: Do you think, considering only your own personal sense of right and wrong and ignoring books, that it is right for anyone to beat their wife?

no
Islam teach why wife beating is needed.
islam dont allow women to take responsiblities because women are not capable to do it because God created men to excel over women. Respobsiblities means to run family in good way, so he have right to discipline his wife if she ever deviates. Islam say, if shared same responsibilities with women that family will ruin 100%.

 

[Looncall]

no
Islam teach why wife beating is needed.
islam dont allow women to take responsiblities because women are not capable to do it because God created men to excel over women. Respobsiblities means to run family in good way, so he have right to discipline his wife if she ever deviates. Islam say, if shared same responsibilities with women that family will ruin 100%.

So, since you agree that it is wrong for men to beat their wives, and also that islam promotes wife beating, is it now time for you to abandon islam?

I think that, if islam teaches what you say it does, it should be universally despised.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

Hello brother DebaterSlayer,

TruthSpeaker, do you speak Arabic? I might be able to ease up the language barrier issue if you do, because at this rate nothing's getting solved.

i need this help now, can u pls translate Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - and post it here?

In this page i have proof for beating.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

So, since you agree that it is wrong for men to beat their wives, and also that islam promotes wife beating, is it now time for you to abandon islam?

I think that, if islam teaches what you say it does, it should be universally despised.

islam teach allah is creator, creator has right to decide how we should live. Because allah ask to beat wife, no wrong to do it. But if not asked, it is wrong. I answered in my previous post because you asked me incase i ignore quran, but why to ignore when it has right to dictate us?