Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[TruthSpeaker]

Oh dear TruthSpeaker, I have been learning from many on here. Perhaps you should listen to them too, they speak perfect sense.

If you actually read back through the thread - fully, you will see that I have been learning and contributing along the way. Do you need me to tell you the difference? I have been willing to learn and apapt as I have come right through from Page 1 of this thread.

Anyway my point still stands that you willingly choose to take text out of context to suit your own agenda.

first of all there is no contradiction in hadith like ssainhu say. I never did take anyhting from context. Again, kindly realize hadith is just a reporter, hadith just say muhammad said this and that, and also say contexts when quran revealed. It is said well in hadith that allah corrected muhammad when he said to take revenge, so allahs teaching is great than muhammad. Hadith is used only to know contexts, not as a book of commands. ssainhu takes muhammads teaching from hadith to contradict quran of allah, which not allowed in islam. Islam means to obey quran, not obey what muhammad say in hadith. Ask any scholor if you want, dont ask ssainhu.

 

[beenie]

hadith dont say that, pls tell me where hadith contradict, hadith is just a reporter, quran is book to follow.

I know this already, which is why some Hadith are not "authentic".

because this topic is for that, and islam teach (quran) to beat wives. Let me ask you why you want alter islam?

I'm not altering Islam, and I accept that there are multiple meanings for "daraba" INCLUDING "separate from". Scholars agree too, so why do you insist that YOU'RE correct and that YOUR scholars are MORE correct than ours? :sarcastic

Not really, in every language there are words that have multiple meanings and hedge on context clues to establish the correct meaning.

Take for example the English word "beat" it can have several meanings including

1. A rhythmic musical beat
2. To hit something
3. To describe a state of exhaustion (I'm dead beat)
4. To succeed against another (My basketball team beat the away team)

The meaning is perfectly clear when context is included.

Thank you for explaining this better than I could, Bismillah.

first of all there is no contradiction in hadith like ssainhu say. I never did take anyhting from context. Again, kindly realize hadith is just a reporter, hadith just say muhammad said this and that, and also say contexts when quran revealed. It is said well in hadith that allah corrected muhammad when he said to take revenge, so allahs teaching is great than muhammad. Hadith is used only to know contexts, not as a book of commands. ssainhu takes muhammads teaching from hadith to contradict quran of allah, which not allowed in islam. Islam means to obey quran, not obey what muhammad say in hadith. Ask any scholor if you want, dont ask ssainhu.

They can ask me anything they want to. At least I have the guts to say "I don't know" instead of insisting I know something I don't.

Hadith DO contradict each other, and that is why many are thrown out. Nice try.

The Qur'an is and always will be my resource for Islamic teaching, so I suggest you stop suggesting otherwise.

 

[Draka]

first of all there is no contradiction in hadith like ssainhu say. I never did take anyhting from context. Again, kindly realize hadith is just a reporter, hadith just say muhammad said this and that, and also say contexts when quran revealed. It is said well in hadith that allah corrected muhammad when he said to take revenge, so allahs teaching is great than muhammad. Hadith is used only to know contexts, not as a book of commands. ssainhu takes muhammads teaching from hadith to contradict quran of allah, which not allowed in islam. Islam means to obey quran, not obey what muhammad say in hadith. Ask any scholor if you want, dont ask ssainhu.

What I want to know is why you want to take a direction for non-retaliation to mean that the wife getting hit in the first place was alright? Just because Allah might have directed to not take retaliation doesn't mean that her getting beat was okay. It could just as easily be..."two wrongs don't make a right" or "turn the other cheek". I didn't see anything in there that said that Allah approved of the wife getting hit, only that the same action shouldn't be taken as retribution. Isn't it just as likely that Allah didn't want anyone to be hit and so wanted it to stop altogether instead of becoming escalated by back and forth retaliation?

 

[TruthSpeaker]

Hadith DO contradict each other, and that is why many are thrown out. Nice try.

How do you know you understood hadith well? people just throw when they think it is wrong.

But incase of quran 4.34, where is hadith contradict? where it says about allah contradicted himself?

The Qur'an is and always will be my resource for Islamic teaching, so I suggest you stop suggesting otherwise.

then explain why you quoted muhammad saying in hadith to contradict quran of allah
Hadith can be used only to understand context, read tasfir in wikipedia.

 

[beenie]

What I want to know is why you want to take a direction for non-retaliation to mean that the wife getting hit in the first place was alright? Just because Allah might have directed to not take retaliation doesn't mean that her getting beat was okay. It could just as easily be..."two wrongs don't make a right" or "turn the other cheek". I didn't see anything in there that said that Allah approved of the wife getting hit, only that the same action shouldn't be taken as retribution. Isn't it just as likely that Allah didn't want anyone to be hit and so wanted it to stop altogether instead of becoming escalated by back and forth retaliation?

Exactly. This is how I see it too.

How do you know you understood hadith well? people just throw when they think it is wrong.

You know as well as I do that there are different levels of Hadith, and that many are thrown out as unauthentic. Stop playing naive. I don't like to share my experience, as it seems boastful...but I've taken a few years' worth of Seerah/Hadith classes. How about you?

But incase of quran 4.34, where is hadith contradict? where it says about allah contradicted himself?

I provided plenty. Go busy yourself finding them.

they explain why you quoted muhammad saying in hadith to contradict quran of allah

I didn't. Step down from your pedestal and read what we're saying or pack up and go home. Enough is enough.

You believe that verse means "beat" and the rest of us don't. Period.

Hadith can be used only to understand context, read tasfir in wikipedia.

Are you serious? wikipedia? The same I was raked over the coals for using as a BACKUP source AFTER QUR'AN and Hadith? Please, get real with your arguments or just stop.

I've taken PLENTY of tafsir classes, and not once has this verse been translated as "beat". That should put wikipedia to rest.

 

[Enlighten]

first of all there is no contradiction in hadith like ssainhu say. I never did take anyhting from context. Again, kindly realize hadith is just a reporter, hadith just say muhammad said this and that, and also say contexts when quran revealed. It is said well in hadith that allah corrected muhammad when he said to take revenge, so allahs teaching is great than muhammad. Hadith is used only to know contexts, not as a book of commands. ssainhu takes muhammads teaching from hadith to contradict quran of allah, which not allowed in islam. Islam means to obey quran, not obey what muhammad say in hadith. Ask any scholor if you want, dont ask ssainhu.

:faint: OMG, As I said, please read the thread fully. I KNOW what Hadith is from LEARNING throughout this thread, this is not the issue here. I have consulted many scholar sites throughout this thread as well as asked many questions to staff (including ssainhu), they all tell me the same.

I forget the word now, ssainhu, please help with the word. But you are accusing another Muslim of changing the word to suit themselves which is not the case, many here have told me over and over the same meaning of the verse in the Qur'an along with backing it up with Hadith. Scholar sites have given me the same message.

If it weren't for the staff and other members here I would have a VERY negative impression of Islam, such as the Anti-Islam sites teach, since you and Godobeyer seem to agree with what they teach.

Now PLEASE, can we stop having a go at ssainhu here, if you have proof show it along with source that is irrefutable then we can all move on.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

You know as well as I do that there are different levels of Hadith, and that many are thrown out as unauthentic. Stop playing naive.

i leave this for now as it is another subject

I provided plenty. Go busy yourself finding them.

already told thousand times hadith is book to know only contexts, there may be muhammad contradict himself, but it not matter as we follow allah only. You have not posted here from hadith about allah contradicted himself. or show it.

I didn't( quoted from hadith). Step down from your pedestal and read what we're saying or pack up and go home. Enough is enough.

I reject your proof based on the following:

"Do not beat the female servants of Allah;"

"Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands
(beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you;" and"[It is
not a shame that] one of you beats his wife like [an unscrupulous
person] beats a slave and maybe he sleeps with her at the end of the
day." (See Riyadh Al-Saliheen, op.cit,p.p. 137-140). In another
hadith the Prophet(P) said

...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel
and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?... (Sahih
Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

 

[Enlighten]

I feel dirty, since I have said I wont post more in this thread, but I have to say something... let this thread die. Please. It serves no constructive purpose anymore for anyone. So please, just let it die, even if you are itching to answer (I know I am).

This will be my last post in this thread. Bye, and hope to meet you all again in another, better thread.

I think I need to take this approach. No point trying to reason with those who don't wish to listen to others before responding or take time to read what others say.

 

[beenie]

:faint: OMG, As I said, please read the thread fully. I KNOW what Hadith is from LEARNING throughout this thread, this is not the issue here. I have consulted many scholar sites throughout this thread as well as asked many questions to staff (including ssainhu), they all tell me the same.

I forget the word now, ssainhu, please help with the word. But you are accusing another Muslim of changing the word to suit themselves which is not the case, many here have told me over and over the same meaning of the verse in the Qur'an along with backing it up with Hadith. Scholar sites have given me the same message.

If it weren't for the staff and other members here I would have a VERY negative impression of Islam, such as the Anti-Islam sites teach, since you and Godobeyer seem to agree with what they teach.

Now PLEASE, can we stop having a go at ssainhu here, if you have proof show it along with source that is irrefutable then we can all move on.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, Enlighten.

They won't let up because they feel the need to change my mind...and it won't happen. They feel that because I (and MANY OTHERS) interpret the verse differently than they do, that by default, we're wrong and they're right.

I even posted a video a well-known and respected cleric and of course it was ignored. I posted authentic Hadith and it too was ignored. Arabic speaking Muslims have defined the word innumerable times, and it too was ignored.

The Holy Prophet (SAW): "Avoid stubbornness; verily it begins with ignorance and ends in regret.”

The Holy Prophet (SAW):
“Whoever insists on his opinion would perish.”

 

[beenie]

Typical response when you have nothing to say.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

Typical response when you have nothing to say.

ha you say you did not quoted hadith

I didn't (quoted hadith)

..How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel
and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?... (Sahih
Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

this is why i have to

 

[Enlighten]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, Enlighten.

They won't let up because they feel the need to change my mind...and it won't happen. They feel that because I (and MANY OTHERS) interpret the verse differently than they do, that by default, we're wrong and they're right.

I even posted a video a well-known and respected cleric and of course it was ignored. I posted authentic Hadith and it too was ignored. Arabic speaking Muslims have defined the word innumerable times, and it too was ignored.

The Holy Prophet (SAW): "Avoid stubbornness; verily it begins with ignorance and ends in regret.”

The Holy Prophet (SAW):
“Whoever insists on his opinion would perish.”

That's ok there was a word (or perhaps a phrase, it's gone on for so long, I don't know my right arm from left anymore) someone used on one of these threads to describe exactly what you have above. Perhaps it may have been the quotes you have also given above.

I don't think there is any reasoning with them as I have just posted, they want to believe to beat their wifes and nothing will tell them different.

I must add, although it may have been frustrating for yourself and others on here to try to explain repeatidly, at least us Non-Muslims have learnt a lot throughout. :yes:

 

[Draka]

Truthspeaker, care to address this at all?

What I want to know is why you want to take a direction for non-retaliation to mean that the wife getting hit in the first place was alright? Just because Allah might have directed to not take retaliation doesn't mean that her getting beat was okay. It could just as easily be..."two wrongs don't make a right" or "turn the other cheek". I didn't see anything in there that said that Allah approved of the wife getting hit, only that the same action shouldn't be taken as retribution. Isn't it just as likely that Allah didn't want anyone to be hit and so wanted it to stop altogether instead of becoming escalated by back and forth retaliation?

Why do you take a direction against retaliation to mean that the original act was condoned?

 

[beenie]

ha you say you did not quoted hadith



this is why i have to

Do not misquote me again.

I have quoted Qur'an and Hadith, and I'm not going to do it again.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

What I want to know is why you want to take a direction for non-retaliation to mean that the wife getting hit in the first place was alright? Just because Allah might have directed to not take retaliation doesn't mean that her getting beat was okay. It could just as easily be..."two wrongs don't make a right" or "turn the other cheek". I didn't see anything in there that said that Allah approved of the wife getting hit, only that the same action shouldn't be taken as retribution. Isn't it just as likely that Allah didn't want anyone to be hit and so wanted it to stop altogether instead of becoming escalated by back and forth retaliation?

quran is a book of commands that is to be followed and redistribution, any disagreement?
hadith dont ask or approve anything but it explains the context, the only disagreement in this thread so far was about meaning of 'adriboo'. The hadith expalins the context when adriboo used, that is when women was slapped.

If you still dont get it, leave it.

 

[beenie]

That's ok there was a word (or perhaps a phrase, it's gone on for so long, I don't know my right arm from left anymore) someone used on one of these threads to describe exactly what you have above. Perhaps it may have been the quotes you have also given above.

I don't think there is any reasoning with them as I have just posted, they want to believe to beat their wifes and nothing will tell them different.

I must add, although it may have been frustrating for yourself and others on here to try to explain repeatidly, at least us Non-Muslims have learnt a lot throughout. :yes:

No worries, my head hurts.

I'm glad that others have learned from this marathon thread. That's why I have remained here, so that others can see that just like every religion, there are differing opinions, and that it's ok. IMO differing opinions help us all learn something about each other and our faith. It forces us to research and provide accurate information...and in turn, sometimes admit we've misunderstood something.

I'm glad you've stuck around long enough to see our version too. It's easy to just see and accept the bad...and not care.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

Do not misquote me again.

I have quoted Qur'an and Hadith, and I'm not going to do it again.

I didn't (quoted hadith)

 

[beenie]

quran is a book of commands that is to be followed and redistribution, any disagreement?
hadith dont ask or approve anything but it explains the context, the only disagreement in this thread so far was about meaning of 'adriboo'. The hadith expalins the context when adriboo used, that is when women was slapped.

If you still dont get it, leave it.

There are also Hadith that speak out against slapping your wife. Get it? If not, YOU leave it. If Hadith is there to explain the text, and there are variations in that, then we have to accept that there are variations on the word adriboo.

Again, that Hadith could just as easily meant that retaliation is no better than the slap. See? Variation.

 

[Draka]

quran is a book of commands that is to be followed and redistribution, any disagreement?

Well, obviously I disagree with that or I'd be Muslim. Doesn't change the discussion though.

hadith dont ask or approve anything but it explains the context, the only disagreement in this thread so far was about meaning of 'adriboo'. The hadith expalins the context when adriboo used, that is when women was slapped.

If you still dont get it, leave it.

None of this addresses why you want to take a direction against retaliation as to condone the original act of hitting a wife. Why could it not mean "two wrongs don't make a right" or "turn the other cheek" or simply..."hitting is not allowed"?

 

[TruthSpeaker]

There are also Hadith that speak out against slapping your wife. Get it? If not, YOU leave it.

4.34 is from allah, my question was do you have any hadith with allah contradicting himself about slapping. If have pls provide and i will leave everything now here.

Again, that Hadith could just as easily meant that retaliation is no better than the slap. See? Variation.

now you say it is slap, thanks
everything is clear in 4.34 except meaning of 'adriboo', nothing has to be taken from hadith except what it means by adriboo in that context, and you said it, slap it is.