pwfaith
Active Member
But what do you mean by "beat"?
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Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"
- Thread starter Draka
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But what do you mean by "beat"?
pwfaith
Active Member
Found this link: TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Can a Husband Beat His Wife?
I can honestly say this is something I never knew about Islam and it's quite disheartening
From the article - DISGUSTING!!!
I can honestly say this is something I never knew about Islam and it's quite disheartening
From the article - DISGUSTING!!!
Found this link: TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Can a Husband Beat His Wife?
I can honestly say this is something I never knew about Islam and it's quite disheartening
From the article - DISGUSTING!!!
pwfaith, that article is from an anti-Islam site. They are very good at what they do. They twist and turn words to meet their agenda, and they rely on people like you, who don't know a lot about Islam, to read their lies and believe them. Just like any anti-whatever site, we can all find very disturbing articles written.
There is no basis of truth in that article or in those comments you posted. Visit an anti-Christian site and see all the garbage people write about the Bible and what THEY think Jesus did.
Please don't use those types of sites to learn about Islam or any other religion.
Looncall
Well-Known Member
I am curious about these bracketed parts of quotations from the quran. What are they? Are they explanations? They sometimes seem to be important parts of the quotations.
The brackets are there because the Arabic language uses markings to differentiate between male and female, and there are words in Arabic that are not easily or directly translated to English. For instance, the word in question, "adriboo" has multiple meanings in Arabic; it is up to the translator to pick which one suits the message the best. In this case, some choose "beat", some choose "beat lightly", some choose "tap", some choose "separate", some choose "ignore", some choose "leave"...which is why there is so much disagreement.
The bracketed words are basically there to assist in translation. I know, it's confusing to me too.
pwfaith
Active Member
pwfaith, that article is from an anti-Islam site. They are very good at what they do. They twist and turn words to meet their agenda, and they rely on people like you, who don't know a lot about Islam, to read their lies and believe them. Just like any anti-whatever site, we can all find very disturbing articles written.
There is no basis of truth in that article or in those comments you posted. Visit an anti-Christian site and see all the garbage people write about the Bible and what THEY think Jesus did.
Please don't use those types of sites to learn about Islam or any other religion.
Perhaps you could show me which verses are untrue. I looked several of them up and still see where it says it's ok to "strike" the wife.
I am aware of how sites misrepresent faiths and have no problem answering people who question and use biased sites against my own faith.
I used The Holy Qur'an - ?????? ?????? to look up some of the verses:
Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
So it's ok for the husband to advise, deny the wife sex and then finally striker her if need be in order to get her to obey him, according to this verse? That's what it looks like it says to me. If you have the time, perhaps you can go through the other verses they provide and explain them to me. thanks
Draka
Wonder Woman
for one, your "challenge" is a bit absurd. You seem to think your "proof" is so solid that anyone who reads it should automatically change their way of thinking. That isn't so. Secondly, no one else is claiming such "proof", just you. All the others seem to see that there are inconsistencies that need to be analyzed and worked out by each Muslim to determine how they understand those inconsistencies. It if really was as clear cut as you seem to think it is, then no one would disagree in the first place.
What makes you think they are unsure of their stance or their reasons? They seem pretty sure of themselves to me. They've been consistent and hold firm to their stances. Just because they disagree with you doesn't mean they are unsure.
She IS a Muslim, whether you agree with her reasoning or not.
TruthSpeaker
Member
this is said by muhammad not allah.
Hadith is muhammad saying and quran is allah's saying. who do you follow? muhammad or allah?
in the beginning muhammad asked woman to take revenge against husband (like he said in hadith) this is what muhammad want to happen. "‘Let her have retaliation against her husband’. Seeing fault in muhammad's opinion allah at that time sent gabriel to him to sent message that dont hit back as hit was for rebellious. "We wanted something while Allah wanted something else, and that which Allah wants is good’. Retaliation was then suspended”.
to suspend retailation is from allah, not from muhammad. anywhere did allah contradicted himself?
another questions, in hadith verse you quoted were the woman rebellious? quran ask beat woman only when rebellious.
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Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The police never punish. The courts punish.
here a scholar would be expected to report abuse, not defend it.
Abuse of women and rape in marriage, is common and not only amongst Muslims. Fortunately it is easily proved with modern science.
More and more Musimah are reporting this crime, as are friends and Neighbours.
Ridiculous. You've quoted Hadith throughout, yet when I quote one that contradicts your Hadith, you disregard it. Are you saying the Prophet contradicted Allah????
Wow. All this verbiage and still nothing.
Perhaps you could show me which verses are untrue. I looked several of them up and still see where it says it's ok to "strike" the wife.
I am aware of how sites misrepresent faiths and have no problem answering people who question and use biased sites against my own faith.
I used The Holy Qur'an - ?????? ?????? to look up some of the verses:
Pretty much what the site said - 'those wives from whom you fear arrogance, first advise them, then if they persist, forsake them in bed; and finally strike them. But if they obey you, seek no means against them"Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
So it's ok for the husband to advise, deny the wife sex and then finally striker her if need be in order to get her to obey him, according to this verse? That's what it looks like it says to me. If you have the time, perhaps you can go through the other verses they provide and explain them to me. thanks
pwfaith, I do mean absolutely no disrespect to you, and please don't take offense to this...but Badran, DebaterSlayer, Bismillah, MuslimainBlack, and I have have expressed alternative views throughout the nearly 160 pages of this very thread.
Please take the time to read it; this question has been posed over and over by Godobeyer and TruthSpeaker more times than I'd care to revisit. We have quoted Qur'an, Hadith, quotes from scholars...Arabic speaking Badran and DebaterSlayer have broken words apart and defined them...it's not fair for anyone to jump in 158 pages into a thread and ask the very question the OP states without taking the time to read it. In a nutshell, the verse in question...more importantly, the WORD in question, "adriboo", has several different meanings in Arabic. ONE of them is beat/scourge, etc. whereas several of them include "separate", "ignore", etc. Most Muslims I know accept the "separate" definition, INCLUDING EVERY scholar I've asked...and I've asked plenty, from different backgrounds and different schools of thought.
Overall, the closest that I've EVER heard a scholar come to the "beat" conclusion is the following, I'm quoting him:
"A troubled marriage is, the vast majority of the time, solved by using the first two steps...speaking and separating the beds. In my whole experience of studying Islam and dealing with marital issues, I have never seen a marriage result in utilizing the 'softly beat' step. Most will either work it out in the first two steps OR THEY WILL DIVORCE. A marriage that enters into the steps of 'beating' are sick to begin with, and would have become physical whether the Qur'anic verse means this or not. I happen to think that this word is something more of an 'attention getter' when a person (the wife in this case) has become hysterical...again, a very rare occurrence. Do note that there is NO restriction to the women and the force THEY can use. If a woman repeatedly strikes her husband, the MOST he can do is 'tap'? This either means that the 'beating' is symbolic or that the word doesn't mean 'beat' at all, rather it means 'separate further'...then seek counseling."
I hope that clarifies.
TruthSpeaker
Member
you say dark by closing eyesRidiculous. You've quoted Hadith throughout, yet when I quote one that contradicts your Hadith, you disregard it. Are you saying the Prophet contradicted Allah????
Wow. All this verbiage and still nothing.
hadith dont contradict, hadith dont teach. it just reports what muhammad say, also report the context when allah's revelation happened about quran. Hadith say allah contradicted muhammad when he said to take revenge. It is your option to follow allah or muhammad.
what you say is what muhammad say, which thenafter allah corrected.
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It's not really telling us anything that hasn't been posted before and refuted by many. To let you see how you are taking a lot out of context, lets say I read only this line and choose to only see these words
. Then this is my argument that a wife can beat her husband. Don't you see?
It's not about providing a quote (from Wikipedia, which Godobeyer said is NOT a source earlier, while telling ssainhu she was wrong), it's about proving that the Qur'an, Allah and Mohammed approve of wife beating, as yet, no one has.
I follow Allah, and I still believe that "adriboo" "daraba", etc. means something other than "beat". Khalaas! Final answer!
Why are you so hellbent on having the right to beat your wife? Aren't there other aspects of Islam that are far more important?
TruthSpeaker
Member
hadith dont say that, pls tell me where hadith contradict, hadith is just a reporter, quran is book to follow.
because this topic is for that, and islam teach (quran) to beat wives. Let me ask you why you want alter islam?
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Looncall
Well-Known Member
The brackets are there because the Arabic language uses markings to differentiate between male and female, and there are words in Arabic that are not easily or directly translated to English. For instance, the word in question, "adriboo" has multiple meanings in Arabic; it is up to the translator to pick which one suits the message the best. In this case, some choose "beat", some choose "beat lightly", some choose "tap", some choose "separate", some choose "ignore", some choose "leave"...which is why there is so much disagreement.
The bracketed words are basically there to assist in translation. I know, it's confusing to me too.
Thank you for this, I appreciate it.
It seems strange to me that such an ambiguous sort of text could be used as the basis for a whole religion.
Bismillah
Submit
Not really, in every language there are words that have multiple meanings and hedge on context clues to establish the correct meaning.Looncall said:
Take for example the English word "beat" it can have several meanings including
1. A rhythmic musical beat
2. To hit something
3. To describe a state of exhaustion (I'm dead beat)
4. To succeed against another (My basketball team beat the away team)
The meaning is perfectly clear when context is included.
TruthSpeaker
Member
to say anything you should have atleast minimum knowledge about who is allah and muhammad, also what is quran and hadith. If you dont have any idea about what you say , stop it here.
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Oh dear TruthSpeaker, I have been learning from many on here. Perhaps you should listen to them too, they speak perfect sense. If you actually read back through the thread - fully, you will see that I have been learning and contributing along the way. Do you need me to tell you the difference? I have been willing to learn and adapt as I have come right through from Page 1 of this thread.
Anyway my point still stands that you willingly choose to take text out of context to suit your own agenda.
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