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Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

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pwfaith

pwfaith

Active Member
Meow Mix said:
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I'm not a Muslimah -- it seems perfectly fine for me to judge wife-beating under any circumstances as barbaric and immoral. I don't believe any sort of god has commanded anyone to beat their wives. That seems to me to be a human error.
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Yeah that! I cannot imagine God telling husbands to love their wife as Christ loved the church and yet be ok with beating her :no: :no: :no: That's not selfless, humble, unconditional love as Christ had for the church. Yes Christ wanted the church to repent and follow Him but he did it by sacrificing himself, not beating them into submission. :(
 
T

TruthSpeaker

Member
ssainhu said:
This makes no sense. I don't have the power to put you in "hell fire". :facepalm: Can we agree to disagree and move on please?
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sister tell me , is it allowed to take what you like and leave what you hate in islam? sister can u gaurantee i wont punished for causing you to take what you like and leave what you hate? also what movement are you talking of? you not able to disprove wife beating also not ready to see the proof.
 
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T

TruthSpeaker

Member
i cant understand what problem for accepting my challenge if they are confident for beating is not allowed in islam. They got no reason to not take my challenge. It is sure that they spread islam message with unsurity. You see, how much times they criticized harshly other ideas using their unsure ideas.
 
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Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
Truthspeaker, if you are so sure of yourself, if you have this unquestionable, irrefutable proof, then why not just present it? If it is actual valid "proof" as you say it is then one could not even find a way to refute it, so what are you worried about? Are you worried that your "proof" will be shown to not be valid? That you may be hinging your beliefs upon something which is questionable? If not, then just present your so-called proof and show everyone how right (you think) you are. The only reason to hold back this "proof" you keep talking about is because you know it isn't actual "proof". To keep going on about it as you have been only looks incredibly bad on you. So, post it or shut up about it.
 
T

TruthSpeaker

Member
Draka said:
Truthspeaker, if you are so sure of yourself, if you have this unquestionable, irrefutable proof, then why not just present it? If it is actual valid "proof" as you say it is then one could not even find a way to refute it, so what are you worried about? Are you worried that your "proof" will be shown to not be valid? That you may be hinging your beliefs upon something which is questionable? If not, then just present your so-called proof and show everyone how right (you think) you are. The only reason to hold back this "proof" you keep talking about is because you know it isn't actual "proof". To keep going on about it as you have been only looks incredibly bad on you. So, post it or shut up about it.
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sister draka, why cant ask same question against ssainhu and her friends? if they have unquestionable, irrefutable proof, why fear my challenge? they not have any reason in not accepting my challenge.

ssainhu said she wont change her mind even it is proved true. It is duty of a muslim to bring other muslims to correct teaching of islam if possible, or sometimes i will receive punishment. i know everyone wont like me but i fear punishment, i have to behave like this.


Another mission behind i behave like this is to prove everyone that ssainhu and her friends are not sure about what they say, they cannot be trusted. It is like this they say everything everytime and you trust them.


ssainhu said:
If I still don't like something, then it's my choice to either make peace with it or ignore that part which bothers me.
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Islam not allow this, ssainhu should change this to be muslim.
 
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Sakeenah

Sakeenah

Well-Known Member
TruthSpeaker said:
sister draka, why cant ask same question against ssainhu and her friends? if they have unquestionable, irrefutable proof, why fear my challenge? they not have any reason in not accepting my challenge.

ssainhu said she wont change her mind even it is proved true. It is duty of a muslim to bring other muslims to correct teaching of islam if possible, or sometimes i will receive punishment. i know everyone wont like me but i fear punishment, i have to behave like this.
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Truthspeaker I don't think anyone is fearing your challenge they are waiting for your 'proof' which you haven''t posted yet.

yes it's a duty for every muslim to call others towards the correct teachings of islam..but one shouldn't do that because you fear a punishment..
We call others towards good because we wish for others what we wish for ourselves..because you want them to gain true happiness..

Trutspeaker what was the first thing the prophets like moses,isa,muhammed,noah,abraham(peave be upon them) called to? They called towards Tawheed (Oneness of God and not worshipping anything besides God)
So I don't see the point of you discussing this again..Didn't the prophet (peace be upon him) for the first 10 years focus on teaching the people about tawheed and aqeedah..or did he (peace be upon him) start with rulings and debates?

if you are really concerned with calling the ppl towards good on this forum muslims and non-muslims..stop posting in this thread and start a new and more benificial thread on tawheed...barakalahu feek

btw
Truthspeaker I'm a member on an islamic forum for awhile now and when these topics are discussed the majority has the same opinion as ssainhu,DS,Badran. And to be honest the mods here on RF have alot of patience..there you would be banned because of the way you talk to the members
 
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T

TruthSpeaker

Member
Meow Mix said:
I'm just saying -- if a man beats a woman because he assumes she's OK with it but she's actually not, there's a problem.
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then she should say her husband 'dont beat' and explain she undertand it another way. They can visit scholars from different opinion and reach common opinion which satisfies both.

Meow Mix said:
I can't imagine myself not "bashing" any concept that involves barbaric acts like wife-beating. I don't care how many people believe it's ok, it's still immoral to me.
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i asked same question before, why you think porn beating not barbaric?
pornstar take beating for reward.
muslimah too who take beating will be rewarded in afterlife for obidience.
what different?


Meow Mix said:
I'm not a Muslimah -- it seems perfectly fine for me to judge wife-beating under any circumstances as barbaric and immoral. I don't believe any sort of god has commanded anyone to beat their wives. That seems to me to be a human error.
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i cant understand why porn beating is ok and wife beating not ok. i see no sense in your speech.
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Truthspeaker.

In most civilised countries wife beating is against the law, and punishable by imprisonment.
Religion is not a defence. This is classed as domestic violence and is a serious crime.
It is illegal, in the UK, to encourage others to commit domestic violence and would have equal consequences.
To teach that wife beating is permissible, for any reason or by anyone, is illegal.

No one may beat another person for any reason. a plea of Self defence may mitigate the crime in court.
This is also true of the police who may not beat anyone except in self defence, using the minimum force necessary .
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
truthspeaker said:
then you have to study islam more, so you can understand. According to islam creator has right to command how we should live, no right to question right or wrong.
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Then hypothetically, if god was to ask you to kill your son, just as God ask Abraham to his son (Ishmael according to the Qur'an, but Isaac elsewhere), you would do it? A sacrifice; a command to kill in his name.

You would not question God's command nor believe that such commandment is wrong?

How blindly would you follow your god?
 
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T

TruthSpeaker

Member
ok i now post a proof now.

I wonder how no one seen this simple proof from altafsir.com

The word tafsīr is derived from the Arabic root, F-S-R which means to explain, to expound, to disclose.[1] In Islamic contexts, it is defined as understanding and uncovering the Will of Allah which has been conveyed by the Qur'anic text, by means of the Arabic language and one’s own knowledge.[2] This definition includes;

  • determining the style of the text and its eloquence
  • defining unknown or otherwise less used words
  • the clarification of the meanings of verses
  • extraction of laws and rulings
  • explaining the underlying thoughts in metaphors and figurative speech
  • reconciling verses that seem contradictory
  • finding out the underlying reasons for parables

Tafsir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is the explanation for the verse 4.34 by tasfir

(Men are in charge of women…) [4:34]. Said Muqatil: “This verse (Men are in charge of women…) was revealed about Sa‘d ibn al-Rabi‘, who was one of the leaders of the Helpers (nuqaba’), and his wife Habibah bint Zayd ibn Abi Zuhayr, both of whom from the Helpers. It happened Sa‘d hit his wife on the face because she rebelled against him. Then her father went with her to see the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. He said to him: ‘I gave him my daughter in marriage and he slapped her’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: ‘Let her have retaliation against her husband’. As she was leaving with her father to execute retaliation, the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, called them and said: ‘Come back; Gabriel has come to me’, and Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: ‘We wanted something while Allah wanted something else, and that which Allah wants is good’. Retaliation was then suspended”.
Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

This is context when 4.34 revealed to muhammad, and it not mean hit?
How ssainhu translation fit this context?

anyone not impressed with this proof?
 
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pwfaith

pwfaith

Active Member
TruthSpeaker said:
then she should say her husband 'dont beat' and explain she undertand it another way. They can visit scholars from different opinion and reach common opinion which satisfies both.
Click to expand...

Can you offer an explanation of what you mean when you say 'beating'? Perhaps an example of a type of beating you consider ok in your faith would help.
 
K

Kerr

Well-Known Member
I feel dirty, since I have said I wont post more in this thread, but I have to say something... let this thread die. Please. It serves no constructive purpose anymore for anyone. So please, just let it die, even if you are itching to answer (I know I am).

This will be my last post in this thread. Bye, and hope to meet you all again in another, better thread.
 
beenie

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
TruthSpeaker said:
ok i now post a proof now.

I wonder how no one seen this simple proof from altafsir.com

The word tafsīr is derived from the Arabic root, F-S-R which means to explain, to expound, to disclose.[1] In Islamic contexts, it is defined as understanding and uncovering the Will of Allah which has been conveyed by the Qur'anic text, by means of the Arabic language and one’s own knowledge.[2] This definition includes;

  • determining the style of the text and its eloquence
  • defining unknown or otherwise less used words
  • the clarification of the meanings of verses
  • extraction of laws and rulings
  • explaining the underlying thoughts in metaphors and figurative speech
  • reconciling verses that seem contradictory
  • finding out the underlying reasons for parables

Tafsir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is the explanation for the verse 4.34 by tasfir

(Men are in charge of women…) [4:34]. Said Muqatil: “This verse (Men are in charge of women…) was revealed about Sa‘d ibn al-Rabi‘, who was one of the leaders of the Helpers (nuqaba’), and his wife Habibah bint Zayd ibn Abi Zuhayr, both of whom from the Helpers. It happened Sa‘d hit his wife on the face because she rebelled against him. Then her father went with her to see the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. He said to him: ‘I gave him my daughter in marriage and he slapped her’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: ‘Let her have retaliation against her husband’. As she was leaving with her father to execute retaliation, the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, called them and said: ‘Come back; Gabriel has come to me’, and Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: ‘We wanted something while Allah wanted something else, and that which Allah wants is good’. Retaliation was then suspended”.
Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

This is context when 4.34 revealed to muhammad, and it not mean hit?
How ssainhu translation fit this context?

anyone not impressed with this proof?
Click to expand...

Not impressed. I've seen it before; I told you to provide something new and you can't.

It contradicts the part where it says you can't hit to the face. How then, would the Prophet authorize his slap to her face?

The message is to not retaliate.

I reject your proof based on the following:

"Do not beat the female servants of Allah;"

"Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands
(beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you;" and"[It is
not a shame that] one of you beats his wife like [an unscrupulous
person] beats a slave and maybe he sleeps with her at the end of the
day." (See Riyadh Al-Saliheen, op.cit,p.p. 137-140). In another
hadith the Prophet(P) said

...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel
and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?... (Sahih
Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

[YOUTUBE]qzalnw1yABw[/YOUTUBE]
Edit: Successful embedding! :D
 
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