"Muslims must be held responsible for France terror attacks"

[Debater Slayer]

Or do you think the world will be better without Islam.

What's wrong with asking if the world would be better without any given belief system or ideology? Just curious.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The portions of Islam who would force their religious rules on other ARE accountable for this. I've heard a disturbing number of responses to this attack from representatives of prominent Muslim groups who "denounced" the act by lamenting that a death sentence for blasphemy should only be handed down by a properly convened Islamic court. IOW, their issue isn't with the killings; it's with how they were done.

Yeah, I've heard a lot of such responses too. They are similar to Tariq Ramadan's "moderate" approach to Shari'a: he believes that there should be an "indefinite moratorium" on applying punishments like lashing and stoning... but not because he believes those punishments are inhumane. He just thinks that they "wouldn't be applied properly" now.

I think this kind of quasi-moderation is dangerously common in a lot of religious communities. Sometimes it's not easy or even safe for the actually moderate people (from a secular viewpoint) to speak out against extremism, which is why I wouldn't necessarily blame them for not doing so.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Rupert Murdoch. If only I had a real, working Death Note.
As for Muslims being evil, violent, and wicked, does anyone else have trouble trying to imagine Smart_Guy even trying to just be mean to someone, let alone kill them?

I think your a nice person. I think I like you

 

[amir soltani]

those aren't muslim. those are the enemy of humanity and Islam have Muslim veil

 

[dawny0826]

The portions of Islam who would force their religious rules on other ARE accountable for this. I've heard a disturbing number of responses to this attack from representatives of prominent Muslim groups who "denounced" the act by lamenting that a death sentence for blasphemy should only be handed down by a properly convened Islamic court. IOW, their issue isn't with the killings; it's with how they were done.

If there's been no penalty or recourse - they've not been held accountable.

 

[LuisDantas]

Do Christians have responsibility to "weed out" those akin to the WBC?

Actually yes. I guess the expression "to weed out" is a bit loaded, but ultimately yes. We all have a duty towards the greater community of all people.

 

[LuisDantas]

those aren't muslim. those are the enemy of humanity and Islam have Muslim veil

Perhaps. But how much does it matter if they are convinced that they are indeed Muslims?

Is everyone entitled to just disregard their own claims?

 

[Debater Slayer]

If there's been no penalty or recourse - they've not been held accountable.

Not necessarily. I definitely consider people who support al-Qaida accountable for terrorist actions--ethically, that is. It doesn't mean that they're going to be legally punished for supporting a terrorist organization; they don't have to be legally penalized to share ethical accountability for terrorist actions.

 

[Lyndon]

Well I'd sure be ready to see some "weeding out" of some of the new tea party members in our congress, who falsely claim to be Christians, while cutting off life lines to the poor, and funneling all the profits to their super rich "Christian" conservative friends.

 

[dawny0826]

Actually yes. I guess the expression "to weed out" is a bit loaded, but ultimately yes. We all have a duty towards the greater community of all people.

When we're aware of potentially harmful actions against others, I agree.

 

[Godobeyer]

What's wrong with asking if the world would be better without any given belief system or ideology? Just curious.

you misuderstood him , he post an old thread name , i guess posted few months ago by outhouse .

 

[Debater Slayer]

you misuderstood him , he post an old thread name , i guess posted few months ago by outhouse .

I know that the post was referring to an older thread's title. I'm asking what's wrong with such a thread. Is there a problem if people ask whether the world would be better without any given belief system?

 

[amir soltani]

Perhaps. But how much does it matter if they are convinced that they are indeed Muslims?

Is everyone entitled to just disregard their own claims?

i'm a muslim and say this.first you answer : what is islam?
They do not practice what Islam says and the language of the Qur'an everyone who take innocent people from the path of Allah, and removing them is obligatory

 

[dawny0826]

Not necessarily. I definitely consider people who support al-Qaida accountable for terrorist actions--ethically, that is. It doesn't mean that they're going to be legally punished for supporting a terrorist organization; they don't have to be legally penalized to share ethical accountability for terrorist actions.

When support translates to terrorism and violation of international humanitarian law, I agree with you. The world often has trouble differentiating between those that would support al-Qaida and terrorism and those who would/do not.

I don't consider the Muslim who doesn't at all subscribe to such violent concepts accountable to the world for the actions of terrorists.

 

[Debater Slayer]

When support translates to terrorism and violation of international humanitarian law, I agree with you.

So people who support capital punishment for homosexuality aren't ethically accountable for persecution of homosexuals unless they carry out physically violent actions themselves?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If there's been no penalty or recourse - they've not been held accountable.

Do you think "they are accountable" and "they have been held accountable" mean the same thing?

 

[dawny0826]

So people who support capital punishment for homosexuality aren't ethically accountable for persecution of homosexuals unless they carry out physically violent actions themselves?

Those that support such violent actions are absolutely accountable. As is the case with terrorism at the hands of Islamic extremist groups - not all Muslims, even those who may strongly oppose homosexuality would ever partake or knowingly support violent acts against homosexuals.

I'm not interested in policing ethics when no harm comes to another. My problem is with those who translate dangerous ethics into violent action against others.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would suppose Muslims have the same duty to deal with their extremists in the same way Christians have to deal with their extremists and Jews theirs.
in reality none of these groups feels that they have either the responsibility or the ability and authority to do any thing about extremists who happen to share their particular faith.

in all these cases extremism is far beyond the legal and logistic abilities of any religious group to control them.

 

[dawny0826]

Do you think "they are accountable" and "they have been held accountable" mean the same thing?

Depends on the circumstances.

Justice isn't served until those who are accountable are held accountable.

For the most part I agree with you, but, I'm on the fence as to whether or not one should be held accountable for simply holding a belief, even if heinous. Really depends on an individual's line of thought and the type of support that they offer in respect to their beliefs.

 

[Riverwolf]

Actually yes. I guess the expression "to weed out" is a bit loaded, but ultimately yes. We all have a duty towards the greater community of all people.

A bit? I'd say it's loaded to the point of unreasonable.

As a Heathen, I do have some obligation to decry its white-supremacist variants. As a geek, I have some obligation to decry much of its current gender discomfort.

But that's not "weeding out". That's making a stand against a position that does not represent my views, despite being associated by religion and/or culture.