"Muslims must be held responsible for France terror attacks"

[Harikrish]

What does the quran say about killing other muslims?

[edit to add] It's clear what it says about killing anyone who isn't muslim.

The Quran applies equally to infidels as those Muslims who disgrace the prophet. The sword is equally sharp to both necks.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

All Quranic verses about killings is revealed during war. What disbelievers(Meaning disbelieving in Allah and the prophets) forget to mention is that the war verses is revealed in context and should be read in context.

Allah also says He does not prohibit you to be kind to those from the disbelievers who dont fight you for your religion and neither drive u from your houses, He loves the gooddoers.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

The Quran applies equally to infidels as those Muslims who disgrace the prophet. The sword is equally sharp to both necks.

Produce your evidence!

The prophet Muhammad pbuh was insulted and attacked in Makkah for 13 years. Allah swt told him and the companions to be patient. We follow that.

But when they came to Madina and the islamic state was declared, there was open war between the believers and the idolworshippers. And the only solution was fighting.
They(idolworshippers) started the whole problem and drove out the messenger pbuh from his hometown.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

The wrong interpretation of quran by deviant groups is already condemned and refuted by scholars.
But i dont think western Media want to show that.

No muslim denied that there are groups who interpret quran to suit their agenda and justify their killings.
During the days of Muawiya r.a and Ali r.a, a group sought justification from Quran to kill both companions.

the verse that you made up as signature are talking in condition in war , so you misquote the Quran is fatal error .

soul Muslim or non-Muslim are forbiden .
killing any innocent soul is forbiden and it's cost eternal hell .

But the quotes in my reply, while the context of which, debatably applies ONLY in military, is used in sharia law. Sharia law clearly proscribes death for apostates and nonbelievers. AND there are 13 muslim countries in the world today that impose the death penalty on atheist and apostates.

So you may argue all day long about so called misquotes, or this interpretation is wrong. The fact is, the reality is, that my life is forfeit under islam, that under sharia these cartoonists murder is justified.

Many many muslims do not believe this, and I applaud them. But for 1300 years, the vast majority of muslim scholars agree, the penalty for unbelief, non-beliefe, apostasy, denying any major pillar, or mocking IS DEATH, in or out of war.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

the verse that you made up as signature are talking in condition in war , so you misquote the Quran is fatal error .

soul Muslim or non-Muslim are forbiden .
killing any innocent soul is forbiden and it's cost eternal hell .

If I have made a fatal error, then why where people killed last week?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

All Quranic verses about killings is revealed during war. What disbelievers(Meaning disbelieving in Allah and the prophets) forget to mention is that the war verses is revealed in context and should be read in context.

Allah also says He does not prohibit you to be kind to those from the disbelievers who dont fight you for your religion and neither drive u from your houses, He loves the gooddoers.

If these apply only in war, then why were they applied last week?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

the verse that you made up as signature are talking in condition in war , so you misquote the Quran is fatal error .

soul Muslim or non-Muslim are forbiden .
killing any innocent soul is forbiden and it's cost eternal hell .

I appreciate your willingness to engage me. The question then is "were the cartoonists who died innocent?"

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Atheist, read previous posts.
Without doubt, there are groups who wrongly interpret Quran verses to justify killings. Boko, isis, shabab etc..
I told u before such groups existed in the first generation. They killed many companions of the prophet pbuh. Calling them apostates etc.. Justifying their killings.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

All Quranic verses about killings is revealed during war. What disbelievers(Meaning disbelieving in Allah and the prophets) forget to mention is that the war verses is revealed in context and should be read in context.

Allah also says He does not prohibit you to be kind to those from the disbelievers who dont fight you for your religion and neither drive u from your houses, He loves the gooddoers.

"9:17
to top

Sahih International
It is not for the polytheists to maintain the mosques of Allah [while] witnessing against themselves with disbelief. [For] those, their deeds have become worthless, and in the Fire they will abide eternally."

Does he love gooddoers?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I appreciate your willingness to engage me. The question then is "were the cartoonists who died innocent?"

We believe that those who insult the messenger pbuh are cursed in this world and hereafter as mentioned in Quran.


Surah 33 Ahzab
Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment.

When such insults occur, we should sue them and bring the case to the court or best option: to observe patience and ignore them.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

"9:17
to top

Sahih International
It is not for the polytheists to maintain the mosques of Allah [while] witnessing against themselves with disbelief. [For] those, their deeds have become worthless, and in the Fire they will abide eternally."

Does he love gooddoers?

Correction:
Good deeds based on truth.

 

[Cephus]

Correction:
Good deeds based on truth.

Truth being awfully hard to define objectively.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Atheist, read previous posts.
Without doubt, there are groups who wrongly interpret Quran verses to justify killings. Boko, isis, shabab etc..
I told u before such groups existed in the first generation. They killed many companions of the prophet pbuh. Calling them apostates etc.. Justifying their killings.

Yes, and I appreciate your telling me again. It is your contention that they wrongly interpret quran. And I prefer to believe that. But it is there contention that you wrongly interpret quran, and their interpretation is correct.

This is unacceptable to me, as it means many people, who are muslim, think their god justifies my murder?

As it is difficult for me to understand that some muslims think I should be murdered, and some may respect my life; I'm sure it is difficult for you to understand that arguing about which of these groups of muslims is right and which is wrong, is not my main concern.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Correction:
Good deeds based on truth.

So, he doesn't like good deeds, except from those with the truth?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

All Quranic verses about killings is revealed during war. What disbelievers(Meaning disbelieving in Allah and the prophets) forget to mention is that the war verses is revealed in context and should be read in context.

Allah also says He does not prohibit you to be kind to those from the disbelievers who dont fight you for your religion and neither drive u from your houses, He loves the gooddoers.

But, if some muslims declare war, then the verses apply? Correct?

Servant, if you were at war, would these verses apply? If another muslim goes to war, do these verses apply? If muslims go to war, is that war always just? If IS is at war, do these verses apply?

All that is required is for any muslim to declare jihad on me then they are free to kill me.

 

[dawny0826]

Not all people could carry guns or have access to them during the Iraq war, including many of those who supported the military operations of the U.S. there. It seems to me that encouraging violence is almost as morally reprehensible as committing it by one's own hands, especially because supporters of violence are so often enablers of it regardless of whether or not they engage in it themselves.

I agree with you for the most part, DS. However, I think it's important to evaluate what "support" entails when addressing people and their beliefs and actions.

Simply being a Muslim who does not condone homosexuality due to religious beliefs doesn't make one, in my opinion, accountable for the actions of those who choose to take that belief and translate it into violent action.

A Muslim isn't enabling violence unless they are directly tied to violence through their own actions or inability to act against such violence, if exposed to it.

I don't believe that all of Islam is guilty of such violence and owes the world an apology or explanation for the actions of extremists.

That's just the way I feel.

 

[dawny0826]

You don't have to place an idea into action to support it. I have no doubt that Muslims in civilized societies are at least generally more moderate than most of those in less developed places, however--although it still raises more than one red flag when most people of any given religion support persecution of certain minorities.

How are we defining persecution? If we're defining persecution as harmful action and murder - I agree with you.

If we're defining persecution as a form of non-violent protest or disdain - I respect such right, particularly in civilized societies even if I don't personally agree.

 

[Cephus]

I would never say that individual Muslims are personally accountable for the actions of anyone but themselves. However, I would say that Islam, in and of itself, is indeed responsible and that groups of Muslims can be somewhat accountable if they've not taken action when they could have, to stop violence before it happened. It isn't just Islam here, but we see in a lot of these religious violence cases where the person who goes on to harm others was well known within the local religious community as a rabble rouser who spoke out for violence, yet nobody actually did anything at the time. Those people are indeed responsible for not bringing things to the attention of the authorities.

 

[Smart_Guy]

What puzzles me is why do those calling themselves Muslims and killing the innocent have the false idea that the Prophet needs their terrorist acts to defend his honor? It is mentioned all over the place in the Islamic heritage that the Prophet told other Muslims to never hurt those who hurt him or bad mouthed him. Why do they base their acts on some out-of-context or governed-with-other-rules sources they learned in an impulse and think they suddenly became saints knowing everything, as a justification for their acts?

If you wanna use the Quran, use it as a whole comprehensive and cohesive unit. Don't just cherry pick what you want.

If Muslims want to do the Prophet a favor at the times of peace, they should do it in a good friendly way and drop it if it does not work.

 

[Bunyip]

Jeffrey Dahmer the serial killer was a Christian, do we hold all Christians responsible for what he did? Adolf Hitler was Christian, do we hold Christianity responsible for the holocaust?

Pol Pot was buddist, so are the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge the responsibility of Buddists?

I would say, no.