"Muslims must be held responsible for France terror attacks"

[Servant_of_the_One1]

But, if some muslims declare war, then the verses apply? Correct?

Servant, if you were at war, would these verses apply? If another muslim goes to war, do these verses apply? If muslims go to war, is that war always just? If IS is at war, do these verses apply?

All that is required is for any muslim to declare jihad on me then they are free to kill me.

The verses are applied when there is war between armies or agencies. To ambush the kuffar soldiers and to wait in siege for them in every corner. This is enforced on the battlefield. Or in insurgency, when the enemy prevailed but the muslims didnt give up yet. We see this in Afghanistan, Chechnia and China. In such situations the mujahideen are allowed to hit the enemy with insurgency tactics, but without harming the non-combatants.
As for the armies and agencies of the enemy they are prepared to die for their own cause, if they didnt they wouldnt occupy muslim lands...
Jihad has strict rules.
How can these jihadists claim they follow prophet pbuh when they break the rules. Not to harm non-combatants. Their sick interpretation allows them to kill 100 people with suicide bombing, just because they want to get ridd of one 'apostate official' (Govt official from muslim countries)or disbeliever.
This is visible in lands as Somalia and Nigeria. Boko and alshabab wants to kill a muslim govt official with bombing, in the act other muslims are killed. They say these muslim victums goes to paradise they are colleteral damage, the official goes to hell, their socalled mujahid goes to paradise.
Very disturbing interpretation of islam.

 

[columbus]

The exact tweet from Murdoch was:
"Maybe most Moslems peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer they must be held responsible."

There is something especially despicable about Murdoch demanding responsibility for violence.

He was one of the most influential supporters of the invasion of Iraq. His Fox news spread the lies told by the government far and wide.

Tom

 

[kerravon]

Do Muslims then have a responsibility to correct this interpretation?

Yes. And you can see such an interpretation here: The Holy Book of Mu'tazilah

I for one do not have sufficient knowledge of the Qu'ran or the Muslim faith to try and correct extremists, not to mention my word wouldn't be taken seriously because I'm not a Muslim.

I think you have an obligation to become a Muslim so that you can start spreading your alternate interpretation. And even without becoming a Muslim, I believe you have an obligation to spread the above interpretation.

[edit: - and I also believe you have an obligation to accept and spread http://www.mutazilah.org/enlight.htm ]

 

[Godobeyer]

But, if some muslims declare war, then the verses apply? Correct?

Servant, if you were at war, would these verses apply? If another muslim goes to war, do these verses apply? If muslims go to war, is that war always just? If IS is at war, do these verses apply?

All that is required is for any muslim to declare jihad on me then they are free to kill me.

the Muslims declare war is in defence , there is not attack "abuse" , the argument most of preaching Islam is the past was without war .

IF they attack they would be wrong and sinners . ISIS and IS and Nusrah ....etc break many rules(verses) in Islam .

accuatly maybe you ignore that the Muslims whom on the ground fought ISIS not the Westerns ,....etc , I can't say if they are Muslims or not , but for sure their acts is against Islam ,

so that's why we fought them .
Syria army are Muslims are on the ground fought ISIS, Iraqi Army are Muslims are on the ground fought ISIS, and Alkurds are Muslims are on the ground fought ISIS

Check this video

 

[Godobeyer]

If I have made a fatal error, then why where people killed last week?

only the terrorists whom suppose to have answer , but i guess because they support ISIS .

IF it's true Islam teaching hate against non-Muslims , then Why all Muslims don't adopt this , and staring killing innocent non-Mulsims around the world ?

btw ,do you know that ;there are 6 millions Muslims lived in France , so 3 people represent 6 millions ?

in W1, W2 the Nazi cost the world about 70 millions innocents , so the Christianity and ALL Christians are blamed because Nazis were Christians ?

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes. And you can see such an interpretation here: The Holy Book of Mu'tazilah


I think you have an obligation to become a Muslim so that you can start spreading your alternate interpretation. And even without becoming a Muslim, I believe you have an obligation to spread the above interpretation.

There is one Holly book for Muslims , which is Quran .

 

[kerravon]

There is one Holly book for Muslims , which is Quran .

And your rejection of my interpretation of Islam makes you my enemy and I consider myself to be in a jihad against you. I hope non-Muslims can easily see that all Muslims are not the same, and there are good Muslims like me who are at eternal war (jihad) with Muslims like you. And also note that even as a Muslim I consider non-Muslims to be some of my best allies in war against bad Muslims like Godobeyer and other Muslims in this thread who use religiously-bigoted terminology like "Muslim lands" (instead of e.g. "humanist lands" or "non-religiously-bigoted lands").

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I would much rather that Muslims try to weed out the extremists. If they don't the western powers try to do it and that gets very messy and often makes things worse.

 

[Godobeyer]

And your rejection of my interpretation of Islam makes you my enemy and I consider myself to be in a jihad against you. I hope non-Muslims can easily see that all Muslims are not the same, and there are good Muslims like me who are at eternal war (jihad) with Muslims like you. And also note that even as a Muslim I consider non-Muslims to be some of my best allies in war against bad Muslims like Godobeyer and other Muslims in this thread who use religiously-bigoted terminology like "Muslim lands".

Since ISIS ...etc are groups "minority" and we fought them on the ground , that my good "act" answer ,if we surrender to them and we accept them , in that time you would abosultly right .


I am curious if France was a Muslims country , would the world made this media impact .

France is not Muslim Land and it's host 6 millions Muslims . the majority and minority take advanced in word .

misquote ,misquote ...etc

i am curious why don't you quote what i said " that Muslims should defend for minoritys , as the Christians and Yazidis ...etc"

 

[kerravon]

France is not Muslim Land and it's host 6 millions Muslims . the majority and minority take advanced in word .

Even if the majority of French are Christians, we don't call it "Christian lands". And even if the majority of French are white, we don't call it "white lands". To do either would be religiously-bigoted or racist, respectively. France is considered to be a humanist country.

i am curious why don't you quote what i said " that Muslims should defend for minoritys , as the Christians and Yazidis ...etc"

I am curious as to why you don't reject the Quran as "clearly not the word of God" when it has verses in it like 33:50 which says you can rape your slaves, and why you don't criticize Mohammad for being a slave-trader and rapist.

 

[Godobeyer]

Even if the majority of French are Christians, we don't call it "Christian lands". And even if the majority of French are white, we don't call it "white lands". To do either would be religiously-bigoted or racist, respectively. France is considered to be a humanist country.

the facts the reality is France is Christains land , IF they don't tell it , it's not my problem .

Muslims in Europe fear anti-Islamic mood will intensify after Paris attacks

Anti-immigrant politicians from Germany to Sweden citing Charlie Hebdo killings as support for their position

Muslims in Europe fear anti-Islamic mood will intensify after Paris attacks | World news | The Guardian

so your claim is ideol .

I am curious as to why you don't reject the Quran as "clearly not the word of God" when it has verses in it like 33:50 which says you can rape your slaves, and why you don't criticize Mohammad for being a slave-trader and rapist.

I reject your miquote what caused the misunderstood , not Quran .

 

[LuisDantas]

only the terrorists whom suppose to have answer , but i guess because they support ISIS .

IF it's true Islam teaching hate against non-Muslims , then Why all Muslims don't adopt this , and staring killing innocent non-Mulsims around the world ?

I hope I am very, very wrong about this, but it seems to be because the usual Islamic teachings are slightly ambiguous even while insisting frequently that except for people who never really learned of Islam everyone must either convert, pay submission tax or be fought fiercely.

Those are language and ideas that stop just short of being unambiguously absurd and unworthy of support.

Granted, that is a perspective that I learned from fierce critics of Islam. However, I have failed to notice actual refutation so far, and that does worry me greatly.

btw ,do you know that ;there are 6 millions Muslims lived in France , so 3 people represent 6 millions ?

That is something to consider, certainly. But no reason to stop attempting to understand and prevent what is happening there.

in W1, W2 the Nazi cost the world about 70 millions innocents , so the Christianity and ALL Christians are blamed because Nazis were Christians ?

Actually, there is something to that. To this day Christianity is still worryingly relutant to clearly disapprove of its own extremists.

 

[Flankerl]

Muslims in Europe fear anti-Islamic mood will intensify after Paris attacks

Anti-immigrant politicians from Germany to Sweden citing Charlie Hebdo killings as support for their position

Muslims in Europe fear anti-Islamic mood will intensify after Paris attacks | World news | The Guardian

So while Islamists shoot French citizens with their AKs its the Muslims who are afraid?

Meanwhile France sees the biggest Exodus of its Jewish citizens since quite some time. I wonder if they are afraid?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But their attempts to attack people emotionally are quite extreme.

More extreme than pictures of dismembered fetuses? Many congregations in "mainstream" denominations have anti-abortion protest groups that stand around on street corners showing these sorts of things.

IMO, the WBC's emotional attacks on non-believers aren't extreme; they're right within the "mainstream" range for a religious group. Their focus on soldiers is a bit unique, but that's really it. And even that doesn't make them worse than other churches; those other churches just tend to attack people who aren't as held in as high regard as soldiers who were killed in war.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

only the terrorists whom suppose to have answer , but i guess because they support ISIS .

IF it's true Islam teaching hate against non-Muslims , then Why all Muslims don't adopt this , and staring killing innocent non-Mulsims around the world ?

btw ,do you know that ;there are 6 millions Muslims lived in France , so 3 people represent 6 millions ?

in W1, W2 the Nazi cost the world about 70 millions innocents , so the Christianity and ALL Christians are blamed because Nazis were Christians ?

What do YOU think should be done with people who draw and publish disrespectful pictures of Muhammad?

 

[Godobeyer]

So while Islamists shoot French citizens with their AKs its the Muslims who are afraid?

Meanwhile France sees the biggest Exodus of its Jewish citizens since quite some time. I wonder if they are afraid?

The Muslims affraid from the anti-muslims reactions of this accident ., and non-muslims afraid it's happaned again .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jeffrey Dahmer the serial killer was a Christian, do we hold all Christians responsible for what he did? Adolf Hitler was Christian, do we hold Christianity responsible for the holocaust?

Pol Pot was buddist, so are the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge the responsibility of Buddists?

I would say, no.

A better analogy would be James Kopp:

James Charles Kopp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And not all Christians are complicit in his killing of Barnet Slepian; only those who went around saying "abortion is murder" prior to his 1998 crime.

In a similar way, anyone who was happy to call for executions after the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons or when "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day" was a thing is complicit in the Paris killings. Muslims shouting angry slogans filled the streets in 2010 over those incidents; all those people went somewhere... even if they're laying low today.

 

[Godobeyer]

What do YOU think should be done with people who draw and publish disrespectful pictures of Muhammad?

NOTHING , and suppose all Muslims represent their rejection opinions to these pictures y peacefull way, that's it .

btw :
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) him self insulted and stoned , he did not revenge, instead the prayed to his abusor
maybe God guide them to straight way .

 

[Godobeyer]

I hope I am very, very wrong about this, but it seems to be because the usual Islamic teachings are slightly ambiguous even while insisting frequently that except for people who never really learned of Islam everyone must either convert, pay submission tax or be fought fiercely.

Those are language and ideas that stop just short of being unambiguously absurd and unworthy of support.

Granted, that is a perspective that I learned from fierce critics of Islam. However, I have failed to notice actual refutation so far, and that does worry me greatly.




That is something to consider, certainly. But no reason to stop attempting to understand and prevent what is happening there.




Actually, there is something to that. To this day Christianity is still worryingly relutant to clearly disapprove of its own extremists.

of course that you are wrong
just two question to know that you are wrong :
who are fighting ISIS/ISL/Nusrah in Syria and Iraq on the ground , are not the Muslims? and Who supported ISIS/ISL/Nusrah by the name supporting rebels against Bashar regime ?

I am traveling , i will reply next time .
good bye

 

[LuisDantas]

I would much rather that Muslims try to weed out the extremists. If they don't the western powers try to do it and that gets very messy and often makes things worse.

That is a very sensible, but rarely mentioned consideration.