"Muslims must be held responsible for France terror attacks"

[lewisnotmiller]

As an Australian, I consider US actions since Pearl Harbour to be exemplary. See Anti-Subjugator: Thanks America And yes, individual Americans can be proud of the fact that they contributed to making the world a better place. Assuming they supported those actions and were happy for their tax dollars to be spent on improving the world.

That's a little lacking in nuance.

 

[kerravon]

As an Australian, I suspect we have a Tony Abbot supporter among us!!!

Some Muslims might be wrong about a lot of things, but they are right on one thing, America is the great Satan.....

Your post highlights the fact that this war is not between Muslims and Christians. It is between non-humanists and anti-non-humanists. There is effectively a civil war in every country in the world, including Australia.

 

[Lyndon]

You're a nut case!!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I consider you to be just as evil as the French terrorists. Your post highlights the fact that this war is not between Muslims and Christians. It is between non-humanists and anti-non-humanists. There is effectively a civil war in every country in the world, including Australia.

This one is more hyperbolic than lacking nuance. I'd suggest comparing modern Australian society to one at civil war is disrespectful to all who have truly experienced such things.

 

[Bunyip]

Did Mr. Dammer point to the bible and justify his action by his religious beliefs?

Hitler, indeed did justify his actions biblically. And it is a crime against humanity that the parts of christianity which do lend themselves to to horrors are glossed over as 'not representative of the average christian' at best.

So you would like to gloss over the fact that these terrorists DO use their religion to justify their actions?

Nope, no idea where you got that idea.

And you would prefer to pretend that there is nothing a TURE muslim could interpret as calling for violent, rather then examining those aspects of a 1000 year old ideology of jihad and seeing if maybe, just maybe, there is something worthy of dialouge?

Nope, don't know where you got that from either.

If you want to know what i think about something, ask me - much more efficient than guessing.

 

[fiat lux]

Where most religions contain the possibility to excommunicate those bringing disgrace on their faith, it seems that this does not exist in Islam. Excommunication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia so it would seem that there is no limit to what excesses can be carried out with impunity in it's name.

 

[sandandfoam]

Given that the vast majority of those murdered by Isis and their ilk are Muslims, the idea that the victims should be responsible for the crimes of the perpetrators is nuts.
Jay is right - Murdoch is an ***.

 

[Lyndon]

Here's a pretty good editorial on the subject, rather long, talks about the naked Mohammed cartoon we are not hearing about in the media.

Paris attacks: democracy's black swan moment - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Blackmarch]

Murdoch says Muslims must be held responsible for France terror attacks | World news | The Guardian

"Rupert Murdoch has been strongly criticised after tweeting that “most Moslems” – even if peaceful – must be held responsible for the religion’s “growing jihadist cancer” in the wake of the terror attacks in France.

The News Corp boss added his influential voice to the global discussion on terror that has convulsed social media since gunmen slaughtered 12 people at the offices of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris on Wednesday."

The exact tweet from Murdoch was:
"Maybe most Moslems peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer they must be held responsible."

Thoughts? Do Muslims have a responsibility to "destroy their growing jihadist cancer", to condemn and speak out? Or is it nothing to do with the everyday Muslim, and a separate issue that invokes no such responsibility?

Should Muslims be holding marches of their own through big cities to show their condemnation of extremism?

I remember 150,000 people (vast majority of whom were Muslim) marched through London to protest against Israel and show solidarity with the Palestinians during the Israel-Palestine conflict last year. Where is the same outrage and enthusiasm to march and condemn Islamic extremism?

everybody has the reponsibility to weed out extremism from themselves, however being held responsible for someone else's actions, especially one who is outside of your sphere of influence is extremely unjust.

Going by Mr Murdoch's quotes that would be like saying athiests are responsible for the for the chinese or the soviet era leaders.

on a seperate note i don't think marches are all that effective anyore.

 

[fiat lux]

Nov 13, 2012-(Reuters) - France became the first European power to recognize Syria's new opposition coalition as the sole representative of its people and said on Tuesday it would look into arming rebels against President Bashar al-Assad once they form a government. (+)

Yes, and what fools they were back in 2012, their guiding principle being; my enemies enemy must therefore be my friend.

 

[Christ's Prophet]

Murdoch says Muslims must be held responsible for France terror attacks | World news | The Guardian
"Rupert Murdoch has been strongly criticised after tweeting that “most Moslems” – even if peaceful – must be held responsible for the religion’s “growing jihadist cancer” in the wake of the terror attacks in France.
The News Corp boss added his influential voice to the global discussion on terror that has convulsed social media since gunmen slaughtered 12 people at the offices of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris on Wednesday."
The exact tweet from Murdoch was:
"Maybe most Moslems peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer they must be held responsible."
Thoughts? Do Muslims have a responsibility to "destroy their growing jihadist cancer", to condemn and speak out? Or is it nothing to do with the everyday Muslim, and a separate issue that invokes no such responsibility?
Should Muslims be holding marches of their own through big cities to show their condemnation of extremism?
I remember 150,000 people (vast majority of whom were Muslim) marched through London to protest against Israel and show solidarity with the Palestinians during the Israel-Palestine conflict last year. Where is the same outrage and enthusiasm to march and condemn Islamic extremism?

My response:-
I would ask the inevitable question: -

1. Why is it that many Muslims are so ready to strap on some explosives and go and blow themselves and other people up, or strap on an automatic weapon and take innocent people hostage anywhere around the world, or abduct school girls from their schools?
   Additionally, the question should be asked ‘Why do Muslims do such barbaric crimes in the name of Allah, when we don’t see anything similar from Christians or Buddhists or Hindus’?
   I believe the problem lies in their system of beliefs which nobody seems to talk about. Here is some notes I made from a recent lecture:- The Muslim Jesus and the Christian Jesus are not the same. Jesus to them was a man, not God. He did not die and did not rise from the dead. Jesus to them is in Heaven now next to Allah, and waiting for Allah to send him back to correct all the Christians. They believe that their representative, the Mahdi (a Messenia figure and a descendent of Mohammad) will come riding on a white horse and will lead a large army to kill the dogs and animals of unbelievers. They will carry a black flag and on that flag will carry the word 'punishment'. Israel is a main target for slaughter and establish his rule on the temple mount. He will, by force, establish a new world order. They want to establish a world-wide dominant Muslim Kingdom. Do not be deceived, there is a world full of Muslims who say they love Jesus, but in reality they do not. Unquote.
   Here is the problem:- that fanatical Muslims want to curry favour with their God on this earth, so they can get saved into Heaven and further be rewarded according to their so-called works which they have done on this earth. The greater the works, the greater the salvation. It is therefore a works based system of salvation. That is why, I believe, that Muslims are so touchy if their prophet or their religion are criticized, because they are carnal and Spiritually dead and trying to defend their religion in a fleshly way. Our Lord Jesus, when He walked this earth, was not concerned with criticism, because He knew their hearts and that they would be judged by Him before the judgment throne at the end of days.

But Jesus Christ our Lord is completely different from Mohammad, in that Jesus said to Pilate:- "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world."
That is the difference. If Christians were to fight for their salvation, it would get them nowhere. Our salvation lies in the grace and mercy of Christ; it is who you know, not so much what you know.
Once again, Christians are bound by Christ’s commandment:-
Matthew 22:36:- "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
This is the law of love that Christians are bound by, because we have a God of love. These are my thoughts on this subject. If we don't fully understand the problem, how can there be an effective solution? Plenty to talk about. Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity.

 

[Lyndon]

There was only one Jesus, whether you believe he is a god, a prophet or a man is just a matter of opinion, still only one Jesus.

 

[fiat lux]

Watching UK television (in Germany) last night there was a programme on Channel 4 about the extreme right-wing splinter groups in Britain, there were some rather obnoxious men among them, but equally alarming were there opposite numbers in the fundamental sections of Islam. People shouting "We shall have a Muslim prime minister in number 10 Downing Street, and your sons and daughters will become Muslims!"
No matter how fanciful this sounds, the fact that it is the objective of a present minority, and given that German National Socialism began with a mere 6 people, we should bear this in mind.

 

[Bunyip]

The lesson here should be on the evils of blaming people according to race, religion or geopolitical location. I dislike any notion where individuals are held responsible for the crimes of others simply because they share the same race, faith or country.

 

[fiat lux]

@ Bunyip; There is a sense by which we are all responsible for the 'crimes of others'.
See Pastor Martin Niemoller; "First they came for the socialists ........ ".

 

[mahmoud mrt]

I had a heated argue with some of my colleagues who justify this crime, of course I have other colleges who also like me condemned the crime.

I refuted them with one verse of the holy Qur’an and they could not respond

Holy Quran chapter 4 verse 186:

(You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves. And you will surely hear from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah much abuse. But if you are patient and fear Allah - indeed, that is of the matters [worthy] of determination.)


One verse of the holy Qur’an silenced any Muslim with brain.


This is my Duty, and I’m doing it thanks Allah every day, fighting intellectually any extreme opinion I face from any Muslim brother or even sympathy with any extreme act or opinion.


And I summon every Muslim to fight intellectually this cancer that is eating our nation, Extremism. Most of the victims of the so called Islamic Fundamentalism or extremism are Muslims, that is not to degrade the horrifying fact that innocent non-Muslims are also equally victims. I pray to Allah Every Day to stop this madness in the name of His Religion.



Regards

Mahmoud

 

[Bunyip]

I had a heated argue with some of my colleagues who justify this crime, of course I have other colleges who also like me condemned the crime.

I refuted them with one verse of the holy Qur’an and they could not respond

Holy Quran chapter 4 verse 186:

(You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves. And you will surely hear from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah much abuse. But if you are patient and fear Allah - indeed, that is of the matters [worthy] of determination.)


One verse of the holy Qur’an silenced any Muslim with brain.


This is my Duty, and I’m doing it thanks Allah every day, fighting intellectually any extreme opinion I face from any Muslim brother or even sympathy with any extreme act or opinion.


And I summon every Muslim to fight intellectually this cancer that is eating our nation, Extremism. Most of the victims of the so called Islamic Fundamentalism or extremism are Muslims, that is not to degrade the horrifying fact that innocent non-Muslims are also equally victims. I pray to Allah Every Day to stop this madness in the name of His Religion.



Regards

Mahmoud

If there is a god mate, I thank him for people like you.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

The lesson here should be on the evils of blaming people according to race, religion or geopolitical location. I dislike any notion where individuals are held responsible for the crimes of others simply because they share the same race, faith or country.

From what I have seen, very few people, if any, are blaming all the people of any race or religion. The evil here is when there is an obvious association between certain individuals and an ideology, that some people call examining the ideology racist or religionist.

Those that blame all the people associated with a particular ideology are wrong.
Those that ignore the role played by an ideology in the actions of individuals are wrong.

It is difficult to differentiate between individuals and ideologies, but those who are incapable of doing so have very little to offer toward a solution.

 

[Conceivia]

"Rupert Murdoch has been strongly criticised after tweeting that “most Moslems” – even if peaceful – must be held responsible for the religion’s “growing jihadist cancer” in the wake of the terror attacks in France.

Besides being idiotic, a statement like that creates actual legal responsibility for any and all attacks on Muslims. Notice the key words "must be held responsible", which is literally a command to attack them. Any decent, fair, and impartial judge would consider that an open and shut case.

The only thing keeping Robert Murdoch out of jail, is that decent, fair, and impartial people are not very common, especially among people in power.

Ordinary citizens are put in jail for much less, like making threatening jokes, or making statements that might seem like a command for violence.

The actual cause of violence is the fact that people do not treat things equally. It is inequality that people hate. Treating Muslims like they are bad, makes many Muslims hate people. That is where those extremist groups come from.

Tony

 

[fiat lux]

I have just received the following from an Islamic scholar and translator of the Koran; "On January 7, 2015 a brutal attack was carried out on the office of the French weekly magazine Charlie Hebdo, in Paris, for publishing satirical cartoons. Later on January 11, 2015, a Hamburg daily that reprinted the cartoons was hit by arsonists.In the attack on Charlie Hebdo, twelve people, including ten journalists of the magazine, were killed. This attack was evidently perpetrated by a Muslim group. After carrying out the killings, the attackers recited the words: "Allah Akbar." This attack, however, has nothing to do with Islam. It is totally against the Islamic spirit. I condemn this act in the strongest terms. The attackers justified their attack by saying that they had avenged the Prophet Muhammad. The journalists had, according to the killers, published cartoons which ridiculed the Prophet. In Islam there is no commandment to kill people by making such allegations against them. The cartoonists h ad exercised their freedom of expression, and freedom of expression is totally allowed in Islam. Even during the Prophet's time there were several instances of ridicule, however the Prophet and his Companions neither punished such persons nor asked anyone to do so. On every occasion of this kind, the Prophet's Companions always tried to positively disseminate the message of Islam. They never tried to punish these people. The killing of those people who had published the cartoons is a gravely un-Islamic act in the name of Islam.

Maulana Wahiduddin Khan"