Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
and this has what to do with the prices of tomatoes in China?
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Muslims: The testimony of a man who said he heard an angel while alone in a cave
- Thread starter -Peacemaker-
- Start date
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
I herd they were fairly cheap. But that's not the topic, silly.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
You're not playing this game very well.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Yes and it is also shared by scholars and theologians (See: Revised Standard Bible where in there preface they state the KJV has grave defects) (Compare to Codex Sinaiticus). Now this is not to take anything away from the KJV but it's to point that it's hardly the best translation of scripture one can use...regardless of its Shakespearean style.
It may be your focus but hardly mine.....
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I never claimed everyone agreed that it is by far the best translation. my original point was that the content of the Bible survived the process of translation, it wont matter if its the KJV or NIV. the Biblical content is in our art, music and literature. for the simple reason that plenty of it is inspirational. unless people insist on being pedantic and pick specific verses from Leviticus.
In other words you did not bother to read the context of my post and simply made an off topic remark?
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
In other words you did not bother to read the context of my post and simply made an off topic remark?
You said ("however you cannot deny that the KJV has inspired great developments in English literature and in the English language itself. in other words the text was inspirational and influential even after translation.")
And I stand by my response considering the bible wasn't the main focus of the this thread. We know the bible (KJV-Shakespearean style) is a good piece of literature and we know it has been the inspiration for a lot of positive things...(music, literature, art...etc.) and that "should" go without saying. Since we're debating what's in the OP I don't see the point you're trying to make as a worthwhile discussion because the same can be said for the Quran, The Book of Morman, The Vedas etc....etc....
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-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
Some of our Muslim friends seem to think I'm saying their book is unintelligible. I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying it's a confusing mix of random thoughts strung together. Let me illustrate my point by borrowing a few verses from coherently structured pieces in the Gospels, Psalms, and Torah. We have verses from: John ch 1 verses 1-13, Matthew 5 3-10, Genesis 2:10-15, and Psalm 23 all mixed together
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
“I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
15 I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.”
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
This is how a typical surah reads to me
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
“I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
15 I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.”
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
This is how a typical surah reads to me
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JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Lol. I love how instead of posting an actual surah, you make an "example".
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
An example from the Bible may I add. Still nothing presented from the Qur'an.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friends,
Times were different, what was believable at that time is not at this time as humans have learnt to believe in that which they experience or that they find proof off or they do not bother till experience or proof brings it up.
AM sure in today's time none believes in angels as TRUTH but only accept them as fairy tales or imagination.
However what others who believe in such stories realized out of such words the reveal-er declared is more important, how many became enlightened following it is the only parameter for measuring such stories.
Love & rgds
Believe it or not. Few billions still believe it!
Times were different, what was believable at that time is not at this time as humans have learnt to believe in that which they experience or that they find proof off or they do not bother till experience or proof brings it up.
AM sure in today's time none believes in angels as TRUTH but only accept them as fairy tales or imagination.
However what others who believe in such stories realized out of such words the reveal-er declared is more important, how many became enlightened following it is the only parameter for measuring such stories.
Love & rgds
kai
ragamuffin
Its a matter of faith!! , you either choose to believe it or you don't. Unless your brought up by "believers" and its drummed in to you that its a truth, then i think its a little more difficult but not impossible to form your own opinions.
same for any "revelation"
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
This whole thread is a giant hypocrasy.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
No it isn't from the Bible. I jumbled a bunch of random verses together from different books of the Bible to illustrate how the Koran reads to me.
For Jacob: teachers often employ a tool called "illustrations" to help people who can't visualize or grasp something understand what's trying to be communicated which is exactly what my hodge podge of Bible verses was. Perfect examples of illustrations would be the parables of Jesus that you would've read when you were Catholic. I'm trying to communicate to Muslims how someone who didn't have their theological glasses polished by imans and clerics sees the Koran. If I'd quoted a surah as an example our Muslim brothers would read it in the way they've been trained and so would fail to see it how I see it.
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Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Personally I think you have ignored the last 2-3 pages of exchange in this thread. the point I and others made is really not hard to miss.
You said ("however you cannot deny that the KJV has inspired great developments in English literature and in the English language itself. in other words the text was inspirational and influential even after translation.")
And I stand by my response considering the bible wasn't the main focus of the this thread. We know the bible (KJV-Shakespearean style) is a good piece of literature and we know it has been the inspiration for a lot of positive things...(music, literature, art...etc.) and that "should" go without saying. Since we're debating what's in the OP I don't see the point you're trying to make as a worthwhile discussion because the same can be said for the Quran, The Book of Morman, The Vedas etc....etc....
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
What strikes me the most about the exchange is that many Muslim members relentlessly try to encourage other members to read the Qur'an, to see the miracles in the Qur'an, and to come to the realizaion that there is no comparable text to the Qur'an. and now that those who did actually take the time and probably dedicated hours to reading the text give their opinion the same Muslim members are not happy with the result.
sorry, but to quote Brian: 'There's no pleasing some people'.
do you want to say that the only way you'd be pleased is not only if we spend all those hours reading the Qur'an but if we also told you how great and wonderful it is?
sorry, but to quote Brian: 'There's no pleasing some people'.
do you want to say that the only way you'd be pleased is not only if we spend all those hours reading the Qur'an but if we also told you how great and wonderful it is?
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cablescavenger
Well-Known Member
Is it a decent read?
kai
ragamuffin
I found it a bit of ----" so whats all the fuss about"----- but that's just me.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
So my statement still stands then. It's like I said.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
I like it, it inspires me to be a better and humble person and not be arrogant or high headed. That's one of the things about it. However, I don't know if you will see it that way. I believe it to be the word of God and a guide for humanity, while you may not view it as such and hence your opinion may vary from mine. But if you do read it, I hope you like it and if you don't mind I'd like to know what you think.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
This is what i have come to learn so far:
Firstly, you agreed with Junglej and said that the book was difficult and how I should be worried that other Muslims who read it in other than the Arabic language might also find difficulty in reading it and understanding it.
Then you said that you understand it in English as well as in Hebrew, but what the problem that you have is that you don't like it as a book because of it's condemnation of disbelievers and the threat of hell towards them.
So I have to ask you now, is it the book that's difficult and makes no sense or is it you that just don't like the content? Or is it both?
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...fficult-verses-quran-you-dont-understand.html