My favourite scientific contradiction in the Quran

[A Vestigial Mote]

Don't you think that reveling in gotchas is a bit juvenile?

I believe these types of things need thrown in the face of anyone claiming divine authorship or the "perfect" nature of their beloved texts. And thrown as such into those faces until the end of time... or the end of their religion. Whichever comes first.

Ask me how much I care about appearing "juvenile" by anyone's standards.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Wow, a rambling post filled with irrelevancy, more contradiction to science, and threats of hellfire... was I supposed to be impressed by that?

"And how canst thou have patience about things about which thy understanding is not complete?" 18:68


The Prophet said, "Allah created adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble adam(in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since adam's creation. Book 55, Hadith 543



"Do ye wonder that there hath come to you a message from your Lord through a man of your own people, to warn you? call in remembrance that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and gave you a stature tall among the nations. Call in remembrance the benefits ye have received from Allah: that so ye may prosper." 7:69


But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7



Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? Matthew 6:27



Allah's Apostle said, "Two persons came to me at night in dream and took me along with them. We passed by a tall man who was so tall that I was not able to see his head and that person was Abraham." Book 55 Hadith 573.



And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. Numbers 13:33

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heaven as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in. Isaiah 40:22



And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. 1 Samuel 17:4

And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass. 1 Samuel 17:5

And he had greaves of brass upon his legs, and a target of brass between his shoulders. 1 Samuel 17:6

And the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam; and his spear's head weighed six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him. 1 Samuel 17:7



Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war. Psalm 68:30

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I believe these types of things need thrown in the face of anyone claiming divine authorship or the "perfect" nature of their beloved texts.

That ays far more about you than about them.

 

[Link]

Most mention of the sky in Quran refers to the heavenly realm. For example, the stars that are weapons and arrows against the devils refers to the chosen guides, particularly, the family of the reminder who God has adorned for those who look to it in the sky of this world.

As for sister of Aaron mention, the first Mariam didn't commit the crimes she accused of neither did Aaron, and they are in fact, equals of Moses, and when they told Mariam the mother of Jesus that, they meant, she similarly was chosen like Mariam sister of Aaron, and now has sinned. But both accusations the first Mariam and the last Mariam are accusation that are impossible, just as Aaron and Talut (Saul) are free from the accusations against them in the Torah, similarly, Mariam mother of Jesus was accused of being similar to the sister of Aaron.

This is saying yes you are just like Mariam the sister of Aaron, she was chosen, but then did a major sin, same with you.

But God is showing that such accusations have to be disbelieved in, as God's covenant and choice is always right.

 

[Link]

As for the mysterious letters in Quran, it's honestly for our pleasure and reflection. It's not necessary to know the meaning to be guided.

 

[stvdv]

Such overwhelming weakness in the Qur'an when we should expect perfection is already reason enough to reject any claims to its divine authorship.’

IMO:
I do not expect perfection in a Scripture revealed to humanity by God using a medium

So, I disagree, that this is reason enough to reject any claims to its divine authorship

God is said to be beyond this duality (of imperfection and perfection)

 

[Notanumber]

Over the whole of history, I wonder how many times humanity has had to provide excuses for their god.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

That ays far more about you than about them.

And? I am willing to let it say whatever it will say. You write as if there is some objective "wrong" to my stance here. I'd like to see your justification for such.

 

[ManSinha]

Most mention of the sky in Quran refers to the heavenly realm. For example, the stars that are weapons and arrows against the devils refers to the chosen guides, particularly, the family of the reminder who God has adorned for those who look to it in the sky of this world.

As for sister of Aaron mention, the first Mariam didn't commit the crimes she accused of neither did Aaron, and they are in fact, equals of Moses, and when they told Mariam the mother of Jesus that, they meant, she similarly was chosen like Mariam sister of Aaron, and now has sinned. But both accusations the first Mariam and the last Mariam are accusation that are impossible, just as Aaron and Talut (Saul) are free from the accusations against them in the Torah, similarly, Mariam mother of Jesus was accused of being similar to the sister of Aaron.

This is saying yes you are just like Mariam the sister of Aaron, she was chosen, but then did a major sin, same with you.

But God is showing that such accusations have to be disbelieved in, as God's covenant and choice is always right.

There is not an iota of evidence that this comes from any "god" - it is a claim nothing more and faith and opinions
You can try and justify it any way you like - there is another issue of Alexander the great coming upon the setting sun in a pool of muddy water
Lastly - and IMHO - the most glaring omission is to that of the eastern paths when the prior Abrahamic faiths have been discussed in detail.
Surah 3:85 -
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

More proof of intolerance

@Link - take your preachings and keep them to yourself - sincere advice - anything you say can be debunked by a neutral observer with minimal effort

As for the mysterious letters in Quran, it's honestly for our pleasure and reflection. It's not necessary to know the meaning to be guided.

If it is "not necessary" then why put it there in the first place? Why conflate a book of teaching for the common man with unnecessary stuff that only confuses? Not the work of an all-knowing all-powerful entity

 

[Notanumber]

Allah does seem to be a very vengeful and intolerant god.

 

[atanu]

There is not an iota of evidence that this comes from any "god" - it is a claim nothing more and faith and opinions

I wonder, how do we know.

 

[ManSinha]

I wonder, how do we know

Because other than Lord Krishna - god does not talk to humans - he was the last one that spoke directly IMHO - and the evidence is overwhelming against a god dictated piece of content for anything else given all the errors and omissions and contradictions

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I wonder, how do we know.

We don't... so why pretend to know? That's what ANYONE who claims to know, or makes any conjectures about that "realm" is doing. Pretending. Nothing more. Even if some text DID come from God - we can't know that it did or not. So even in that case, anyone saying they do know is simply pretending.

 

[atanu]

In that you would be 50percent wrong. If it weren’t for those opposed to literalism, literalism would become the majority as it has become in Islam.

No. I meant ‘opposers of different religion/s’ who themselves cannot see beyond literalism.

I can understand petty objections from atheist-materialists since their perspective is materialist — they imagine the body to be the source of consciousness.

But I have also seen the religious find fault in each others’ scriptures. In my opinion, mature spiritual persons will ask for explanation rather than demean another scripture. In every scripture there are things that are not understandable from a materialistic perspective and it takes introspection and meditation to comprehend scripture. Furthermore, who here has read any scripture in full?

We may agree to differ.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Allah does seem to be a very vengeful and intolerant god.

I see Allah warns of our ignorance by stating the consequences of it.

Yet we still post our ignorance of such topics, saying we know more than God Given and inspired Scripture.

We are living with those consequences and in our ignorance, are fulfilling the scriptures that have warned us this will happen.

Regards Tony

 

[ManSinha]

Furthermore, who here has read any scripture in full

Speak for yourself

I meant ‘opposers of different religion/s’ who themselves cannot see beyond literalism.

Are you questioning people's ability to critically analyze and ask questions? Because that is what it is coming across as. If I find something unreasonable in a certain religious text I am free to question its adherents to my satisfaction. What part of that do you not get? Or are you a blind follower of every religious text out there?

I see Allah warns of our ignorance by stating the consequences of it.

IMO - "Allah" governs via fear and intimidation
Not the most appropriate tactic for an increasingly independent minded population that likes to educate themselves, reason, question and think for themselves. You would be well served to keep Allah's admonitions to yourself
"Allah" did not stop any atrocities being done in his name over the centuries in the subcontinent - all well documented and part of its history. I have no faith in either the existence or the powers of such a weak deity.

Consider instead the conversation between Lord Krishna and Arjun towards the end of the Gita - no threats - no promises of eternal hellfire or damnation - just a simple appeal to the higher senses

Gita 18:63

iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā
vimṛiśhyaitad aśheṣheṇa yathechchhasi tathā kuru

Thus, I have explained to you this knowledge that is more secret than all secrets. Ponder over it deeply, and then do as you wish.

 

[atanu]

@ManSinha

The Mahabharata war was seen by someone (Sanjaya) and told to Dhritarashtra. The tales of Shri Krishna, including the Gita, is in the category of smriti, which means ‘remembered’. The Vedas, on the other hand, is in the category of ‘Sruti’, which means ‘Heard’ in meditation space. The latter is infallible and is considered ‘aupaurusheya’ — not from humans. You may not know this difference.

The followers of Koran and Bible have reasons to believe that their respective scriptures are divine too.

If I am an atheist, I can trash any scripture without a second thought. There is no stake involved.

But for me, a spiritual Hindu, all scriptures have a single source, the Isha. There is no second source.

I know that I can pick up a verse from Bible and carelessly trash it, but the opposite is also possible — some one can demean the Vedas equally glibly and easily.

It is my sincere appeal for followers of religions to be respectful of each others.

But you may agree to disagree.

...

 

[atanu]

Speak for yourself

I did that only.

If you think you are master of your own scripture and also equipped to question scriptures of other religions, then go ahead.

Are you questioning people's ability to critically analyze ...

Do you think that in matters of God, critical evaluation is so easy?

 

[ManSinha]

It is my sincere appeal for followers of religions to be respectful of each others.

Where was Aurangzeb when he invoked the Qu'ran and ordered the slaughter of Sambhaji and Guru Tegh Bahadur?
Where was Muhammad Ghazni when he called Indians infidels and plundered their lands and made slaves of their people?

A book that allows its adherents to commit such unspeakable atrocities, in the name of its author and creator that you, of many people, should be well aware of - is not content to be respected IMO let alone revered.

Find me one sentence - one sentence in the Gita that speaks ill of others or asks people to strike down disbelievers

Your respect is misplaced IMO

I call it like I see it - if you want to be respectful - be my guest - but take your own advice - read through the entire scripture that you purport to revere and respect and then come on here and pontificate.

 

[atanu]

I will respectfully withdraw. Let @danieldemol conduct the thread wisely. May we learn.