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My first post

Come2thelight

Active Member
Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.

This forum is new to me, and I hope to find individuals that demonstrate intellectual integrity and can provide a civil and fruitful discussion.

That being said, I would like to see if there is anyone that has contentions about Islam. I don't have all the answers and I'm a student of knowledge myself, however, I promise I'll do my best to provide the questioner with a satisfactory response, or the response can open the door to the exchange of ideas in a constructive manner.

I'm not here to convince anyone, because it is my belief that only God that can turn people's hearts. I'm simply here to view your contentions and hopefully, together we can clear them up.

Please name one major contention you have about Islam and we can discuss it.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Hello, welcome to RF. Sit back, relax and enjoy the cake.

Welcome cake.jpg



I have no problems with islam or any other religion for that matter. Just so long as they treat women equally to men and don't use evangelism, indoctrination or terrorism to force their religion on others or tell me that my children and i will burn in hell because i am atheist.
 

Come2thelight

Active Member
Hello and thank you for your kind welcome. The cake looks delicious! :D

I find it quite sad that people can point the finger and not realize that three fingers are always pointing back. :)

@ChristineM
 
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Come2thelight

Active Member
Hello, welcome to RF. Sit back, relax and enjoy the cake.

View attachment 59744


I have no problems with islam or any other religion for that matter. Just so long as they treat women equally to men and don't use evangelism, indoctrination or terrorism to force their religion on others or tell me that my children and i will burn in hell because i am atheist.


Seems like I didn't tag you? Thanks again for the welcoming. :) (new kid on the block)
 

Come2thelight

Active Member
Hello Ella, thank you for your question.

I do have to clarify that Allah (God) does not directly reveal Himself to anyone in a physical sense. Rather specific individuals have been selected to share the information they've received from Allah via an angel or in the case of Moses (pbuh), through direct speech. So just to be clear, Allah is always unseen. (And this is a different discussion in itself)

To tackle your question, this ties into the notion of the test that Islam holds. The Quran states that Allah created death and life to test us in our actions (67:2). Had Allah been known, then there would be no test. People would not act sincerely based upon their desires had Allah been visible as the sun. For example, a robber would not rob a bank knowing for sure they'd get caught, unless they want to get caught.

Similarly, an employee that doesn't feel like doing work will be productive if their boss is looking directly at their screen. They'll stay at it until the boss leaves. Had Allah been a fact like 2+2=4 then that would leave no room for other possibilities, and it would remove the concept of faith. One doesn't believe in facts, rather they just know them.

We also have to be real, there are a lot of people that wouldn't be able to mentally take such a phenomenon. (God or an angel communicating with them). Such a supernatural experience will need some form of strong will from the individual. From what is read, we can even see that a lot or almost all that do experience the supernatural, have expressed fear as the first impulse. So what would happen to those that aren't equipped to take the glove?

Lastly, one can make an argument that the inner dialogs that humans have could come from an angelic voice. Allah knows best.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.

This forum is new to me, and I hope to find individuals that demonstrate intellectual integrity and can provide a civil and fruitful discussion.

That being said, I would like to see if there is anyone that has contentions about Islam. I don't have all the answers and I'm a student of knowledge myself, however, I promise I'll do my best to provide the questioner with a satisfactory response, or the response can open the door to the exchange of ideas in a constructive manner.

I'm not here to convince anyone, because it is my belief that only God that can turn people's hearts. I'm simply here to view your contentions and hopefully, together we can clear them up.

Please name one major contention you have about Islam and we can discuss it.

Welcome.
Why does a prophet of God deny what another prophet of God said.
I am speaking of Muhammad denying what Jesus said, that He would be killed and rise from the dead?
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
I am speaking of Muhammad denying what Jesus said, that He would be killed and rise from the dead?
That would be because Jesus didn't actually say that.

It is not hard to see how Jesus saying "I will be put to death on the cross" could be changed to "I will be killed".
If the Gospel writers believed that Jesus was killed, then there is no mystery there.

It is most unfortunate that Christians have ended up with a creed that is so far away from its original Jewish roots.
People have never liked change. They prefer to stick to what they know. What their fathers believed etc.

As you know, Muslims revere Moses and Jesus. They just distinguish men from G-d. We can see from the Gospels that Jesus did likewise.

"Why do you call me good? Only God [the Father] is good."
-Bible Mark/Luke-
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes indeed, people can be horrible. In your opinion, do you think religion kills more or greed?


Ahh, one of my favourite subjects. Religion through the ages where either one side or both have been fighting to impose their religion on the opposition has been responsible for up to (max estimate) close to a billion deaths. A number that is constantly rising because of various religious conflicts.

I believe that religion has been responsible for more deaths than any othere single cause apart from natural causes.
 

Come2thelight

Active Member
Welcome.
Why does a prophet of God deny what another prophet of God said.
I am speaking of Muhammad denying what Jesus said, that He would be killed and rise from the dead?

Hello Brian, I hope you're well and thank you for the question.

My brother Muhammad Isa gave you the crux of the matter. We don't hold the Bible to be a reliable source of information.

Even if we were to grant the paradigm of Christianity, from this side of the hill, it seems like the teachings of Paul have made Christians follow what the Prophets didn't teach. From what we observe in the Bible, salvation comes through belief in the Creator and through works by observing the law, while Paul says the law is dead.
 

Come2thelight

Active Member
Ahh, one of my favourite subjects. Religion through the ages where either one side or both have been fighting to impose their religion on the opposition has been responsible for up to (max estimate) close to a billion deaths. A number that is constantly rising because of various religious conflicts.

I believe that religion has been responsible for more deaths than any othere single cause apart from natural causes.

That's quite an interesting perspective because it seems like the intentions of what drove such killing aren't taken into consideration. For example, people get killed for as low as $20. If that's not greed then what is?

Additionally, the mass killings that have happened in recent history weren't driven by religion. I direct you to the genocide committed by Stalin, Hitler, the atomic bomb, country invasions, and so forth.

These weren't religious
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
I believe that religion has been responsible for more deaths than any othere single cause apart from natural causes.
..including the religion of communism and other "isms"..

What was asked is that do you think that people are really killing others due to what people say they believe, or would it be more about tribal power and wealth?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.
Thank you, and welcome to RF

Are you asking disbelievers for insults?
That's what usually happens.

This forum is new to me, and I hope to find individuals that demonstrate intellectual integrity and can provide a civil and fruitful discussion.

That being said
No. Reading the OP, I get the feeling that "insults" are filtered out. Which is a perfect start on RF
 
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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
That's quite an interesting perspective because it seems like the intentions of what drove such killing aren't taken into consideration. For example, people get killed for as low as $20. If that's not greed then what is?

Additionally, the mass killings that have happened in recent history weren't driven by religion. I direct you to the genocide committed by Stalin, Hitler, the atomic bomb, country invasions, and so forth.

These weren't religious


As stated, these were deaths caused by one side or both trying to impose their faith on the other

The Russian Revolution was in part driven by religion. I.e to rid the church of the layer of demigod occupied exclusively by the tzars.

Hitler believed the jew was responsible for his beloved Jesus's death. I am sure this had bearing on his actions

Even so the death count does not meet that of religious wars
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
..including the religion of communism and other "isms"..

What was asked is that do you think that people are really killing others due to what people say they believe, or would it be more about tribal power and wealth?

Of course communism is not a religion in any sense of the word except perhaps to an odd few people who need to blame it in order to forgive their own faith

What was asked and i quote was.

In your opinion, do you think religion kills more or greed?

Which i reply to honestly.
 

Come2thelight

Active Member
As stated, these were deaths caused by one side or both trying to impose their faith on the other

The Russian Revolution was in part driven by religion. I.e to rid the church of the layer of demigod occupied exclusively by the tzars.

Hitler believed the jew was responsible for his beloved Jesus's death. I am sure this had bearing on his actions

Even so the death count does not meet that of religious wars


Thanks for your comment, could you please share a particular religious war that was responsible for more deaths than for example the atomic bomb being dropped?
 
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