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My first post
- Thread starter Come2thelight
- Start date
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Mmm .. you think that people kill each other over whether Jesus is homoousios or not [of the same essence.]
What difference does it make what other people believe?
Why do you think that one group would hate the other?
Did Jesus teach to hate people? No .. that would be satan.
People claim to act in G-d's name, but they lie.
It is not religion that is responsible. It is humans.
Thinking that encouraging people to turn away from G-d will fix mankind's tendency towards evil is deeply flawed.
We only have to look at historical leaders like Napolean to figure that one out .. but we never learn.
Crusades, wars of religion in France, the Congolese Genocide, the Muslim conquest of india
The nuclear bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima account for up to 250,000 deaths. Those i listed account for between 1 and 4 million each
I said religious wars. I did not mention Christianity but consider the crusades, or more recently bosnia, and currently central Africa with anti-balaka qnd the LRA
Hey it even happens on these moderated pages. You tell me why one religious group hates another of a different religion, or even different sects of the same religion such as the French wars of religion and the English revolution
Again. Who mentioned Christianity,
BTW in the bible Satan killed just 10 people at gods command while god is responsible for over 2,000,000. Excluding Noah's flood.
People claim to act in G-d's name, but they lie.
Don't ya just love people who dictate another's religion because they don't agree with it
Humans educated in religion
You think?
Do you want a list of conflict through the ages in which one side or both were fighting for their religious beliefs. I will gladly provide it.
BTW. I have no god to lie for so i have no need to be dishonest
While that kind of discussion is allowed in some areas of the forum, it isn't the goal of the forum. While its brave to say "Take your best shot" there are limits to what members are allowed to say to you. Nobody's allowed to preach to you, nor you to them.
The forum has a 'Mission', but its not to convert anyone. The mission of the forum:
The mission of Religious Forums is to provide a civil, informative, respectful, and welcoming environment where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare, and debate. Content members create while debating and discussing must be done in the spirit of productivity. Bashing other forums, creating unproductive content or responses to others, attempting to use this site as a platform for campaigning for or against or furthering a personal agenda, and attempting to undermine the forum mission may result in moderation.
Its an endless and nearly impossible mission, because people get bored if we aren't criticizing something or expounding our own wisdom. It appears that there isn't a lot to discuss, and that is a problem. We usually either discuss current events, politics or debate ideas or criticize other's ideas. Sometimes we talk about the weather or tell jokes. Its a bit like a retirement home I think or a jail.
Come2thelight
Active Member
Thanks for the statistics. Perhaps my question wasn't a fair one, to begin with. Because these wars went on for a significant amount of time, for example, the Crusades in total (1-4) took about 14 years. Wars of religion in France took about 36 years. The Muslim conquest of India went on for centuries. Had the atomic bomb been dropped more than twice, it would have killed a lot more.
And the Congolese Genocide had nothing to do with religion, rather the Hutu and Tutsi tribe pretty much believed in Animism. It was due to colonialism that divided the two tribes. Like it was done in other countries as well.
But I totally understand your point. You see that people feel the need to impose their beliefs on others. But this is not only on religions but rather most values people have. So can we be fair here and say that people are bad and not religion? Since there is no religion that teaches the killing of innocent people, it should be quite clear, that people have used religion as a cover.
Please remind us who it was that made religion.
Come2thelight
Active Member
Thank you for the welcome
I hope it won't lead to any preaching. And I personally don't mind the scrutiny, rather I welcome it
And as I wrote in the OP, I'm not here to convince anyone, rather planning to clear out misconceptions.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
No .. you conflate religion with enmity.
Religion is merely a creed. It could involve G-d or any concept whatsoever.
Mankind is violent in his love of wealth, whereas you want to blame "religion". G-d knows best what people's intentions are.
It doesn't matter what religion a person professes .. it could be anything .. humanism .. pacifism .. anyism .. Christianism .. Islamism .. secularism .. HUMANS ARE CAPABLE OF SIN.
Here's a clue .. many people say not to discuss religion and politics. It is not an accident that they are grouped together in this way!
Come2thelight
Active Member
Hello... We Muslims believe that there is only one religion for God and that is radical monotheism. This was the message since the beginning and as time went on, people evolved and grew apart and thus teachings change over time. This phenomenon can be examined with all religions.
Additionally, we can also see in the major ancient religions there is a core monotheistic call. This too supports the notion that there were innovations within the religion as time went on.
So yes, people did make up religions, but in reality, there is only one correct way to reach God and that is going to God directly.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Originally, G-d sent prophets to guide us.
..but it is mankind that is responsible for the numerous creeds.
What do you see as the "major ancient religions?"
Animism, is a religion to those who practice it and I he hutu/tutsi conflict was a Rwandan thing. And very much a religious thing with the folk/Catholic Hutu claiming Tutsi were non religious atheists.
Regarding the Congolese genocide the Vatican has decreed that individual priests had committed terrible crimes the church had nothing to do with it. Kind of washing hands of the matter rather like they did with the paedophilia thing at first.
Actually several holy books teach killing of people if they do not fall in line with a particular religion or leave that religion
Do you offer peace and blessings to those who don't follow the guidance of your God?
Islamics made numerous terrorist attacks in Israel, around the world, and in the United States (World Trade Center). It must be hard to deal with all of the hatred that that generated. Lets pray that all of the victims of Islam forgive Islam (at least until the next attack).
The Quran is filled with violence, but so is the Christian bible. The history of both cultures is fraught with examples of torture and murder.
But other than that, they believe in a loving God (who never answers prayers and doesn't show Himself).
Any criticism of the Islamic faith (like Solmon Rushdie's Satanic Verses), is met with fatwas (those are like Mafia hit man orders to kill those who offend them).
So, lets not suggest that Islam is violent, lest we be targets of their Mafia hit men.
Hello and thank you for your kind welcome. The cake looks delicious!
I find it quite sad that people can point the finger and not realize that three fingers are always pointing back.
@ChristineM
It's the choice of finger that is of greatest concern. Not exactly a Siskal and Ebert two thumbs up.
No conflation on my part but i think you may be deliberately ignoring facts because they conflict with your faith.
Come2thelight
Active Member
First of all, how do we quote different parts of people's responses? (new guy)
The crisis can't be strictly the Hutu claiming Tutsi were atheists because even a lot of the Hutu tribe were Animists. The animosity grew after the Belgians started to favor the Tutsi. Maybe it was painted as a religious fight but we can see that the roots of the hate come from somewhere else.
Concerning the call to kill people in religious books, you are correct, there is one. But I was specific when I said, innocent people. I can only represent Islam on this matter and I am definitely sure that there is no call to hurt anyone that is innocent. Any call to fight is only out of self-defense.
All this still doesn't tackle the main issue here. People will always find a reason to do harm and that harm is done for selfish reasons and nothing else. They'll just paint religion so that they can use it to control the masses. Think about the logic. If the individual is a true believer in God and wants to follow God's teachings they would abandon anything that the world has to offer. This would include power, riches, fame, etc.
I sat down with two Jewish women who were showing the people seated at the table their number tattoos (put their by Nazis). Both women were in Nazi concentration camps during WW II, and both lost many family members. They asked how the United States (and rest of the world) could do nothing as Nazis killed millions of Jews. At the time, the Hutus murdered millions of Tutsis. I asked them how they can do nothing as millions of Tutsis were being slaughtered in another holocaust at the hands of the Hutus. Bear in mind that first Tutsis mercilessly had attacked Hutus, and this was their way of getting even.
I researched why President Bill Clinton (ordinarily a fine president) did nothing about the African holocaust (Tutsis massacred), and found that the United States was embroiled in another battle (with NATO) in Yugoslavia (now Bosnia Herzegovina). Clinton had claimed that the battle in this European region was more important because two world wars broke out there. WWI, of course, broke out because the Black Hand murdered the Arch Duke Ferdinand, then allies chose up sides until the whole world was entangled in war. I wonder if Black lives mattered? Why didn't the press say more about the African holocaust? How could much of the United States be totally ignorant about such a monumental event?
Even today, we see constant terrorist attacks in northern Africa as radical Islamics (Arabs) slaughter whole African villages and take their land and resources. Islam is growing partly because of that.
Starving Africa sold land to English investors a few years ago (just before Covid broke out). They sold millions of acres for merely $25,000 (US dollar equivalent). The idea, I suppose, is that they would bring in farm equipment, drill wells, and employ locals as farm hands (finally food to a starving nation), but their resources and manpower would be exploited.
Bill Clinton's hands are not exactly clean in other aspects of African politics. For example, the English (Whites) conquered and controlled South Africa (DeBeers diamond, etc). Clinton considered the Blacks, who wanted their country back, to be rabble rousers. Obviously, the Whites were the interlopers.
The US, of course, did eventually, after a long delay, enter WW II, but too late to save France from having its military fall into the control of Nazis. FDR had turned back a ship of Jewish refugees to certain death at the hands of the Nazis. It took the Pearl Harbor attack to motivate US citizens to war, to stop a mad man.
Religion plays a huge role in setting morality. It is our moral compass that guides our compassion, and directs our wars (though God said "thou shalt not kill" and "turn the other cheek" and "do not bear false witness)." W. Bush tried to attack Niger to steal their resources, but Wilson had refused to lie us into war.
Quote responses: Highlight section, choose "quote" then go to the bottom, choose quote.
Come2thelight
Active Member
Hello Clara, and thank you for your comment.
I offer peace to everyone but I offer blessings to those that follow the guidance. Surely those that don't believe can't hope for blessings true?
And I don't think it's fair to judge an operational car by a reckless driver. If we were to break down a lot of the attacks you speak of, you'll see that it has nothing to do with Islam.
And honestly, it has been hard for a lot of Muslims no doubt, but the propaganda has also made people curious, and a lot have come to Islam, once they decide to read more up on it from objective sources. They come to realize that the Quran isn't a book that promotes violence, but rather self-defense.
That fatwa was complete nonsense lol. The Muslims made Solmon famous. If no one cared about that book, he would have been no one. But some uneducated Muslims went to the streets and caused a ruckus. These were the same Muslims that were at 'bars and clubs' the night before no following Islam, I might add.
It takes a strong person to stand alone, and the weak one stands in a crowd.