My first post

[Come2thelight]

It's the choice of finger that is of greatest concern. Not exactly a Siskal and Ebert two thumbs up.

How do people usually point?

 

[Clara Tea]

Mmm .. you think that people kill each other over whether Jesus is homoousios or not [of the same essence.]

What difference does it make what other people believe?
Why do you think that one group would hate the other?

Did Jesus teach to hate people? No .. that would be satan.
People claim to act in G-d's name, but they lie.

It is not religion that is responsible. It is humans.
Thinking that encouraging people to turn away from G-d will fix mankind's tendency towards evil is deeply flawed.
We only have to look at historical leaders like Napolean to figure that one out .. but we never learn.

God looks at it differently. God sees people's reasons for believing in Him, and realizes that they will convince no one, because their reasoning is weak and their logic is lame.

For example, I had a friend who found a rock on a rock pile and proclaimed that it was a sign from God that God exists.

God wants solid reasons for believing in him, so he sent some people (I won't say who) to shoot down lame reasoning. Through discussions, wisdom is learned (according to both God and Socrates).

So, some of the people that shoot down lame logic might be taken as atheists, though they are not. They are on a mission from God.

These people are not allowed to tell you who they are because God doesn't want them to be worshiped. God wants only Himself worshipped.

By the way, the people who claim to act in God's name might not be lying. You have a lot of hubris to criticize God's helpers. What do you know of God, compared to them?

 

[Clara Tea]

Hello Clara, and thank you for your comment.

I offer peace to everyone but I offer blessings to those that follow the guidance. Surely those that don't believe can't hope for blessings true?

And I don't think it's fair to judge an operational car by a reckless driver. If we were to break down a lot of the attacks you speak of, you'll see that it has nothing to do with Islam.

And honestly, it has been hard for a lot of Muslims no doubt, but the propaganda has also made people curious, and a lot have come to Islam, once they decide to read more up on it from objective sources. They come to realize that the Quran isn't a book that promotes violence, but rather self-defense.

That fatwa was complete nonsense lol. The Muslims made Solmon famous. If no one cared about that book, he would have been no one. But some uneducated Muslims went to the streets and caused a ruckus. These were the same Muslims that were at 'bars and clubs' the night before no following Islam, I might add.

It takes a strong person to stand alone, and the weak one stands in a crowd.

The very strong stand in front of trucks....may they rest in peace.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but its not to convert anyone.

Is the forum not tired of extensive quotes by followers of some religions?

 

[Come2thelight]

The very strong stand in front of trucks....may they rest in peace.

Strong in my example is a strong-willed individual. The one that stands in front of a truck seems to lack such a thing. Don't you think?

 

[Come2thelight]

Is the forum not tired of extensive quotes by Bahais?

I wouldn't know. I'm new

Thanks for the comment though

 

[ChristineM]

First of all, how do we quote different parts of people's responses? (new guy)

Select the text you want to quote, a little popup appears [quote/reply] select quote if you want to do multiple quotes or reply for just one quote, it should take you to the edit box with the quote included. Or select quote for multiple quotes (repeat as required). Go to the edit box and select [insert quotes]

The crisis can't be strictly the Hutu claiming Tutsi were atheists because even a lot of the Hutu tribe were Animists. The animosity grew after the Belgians started to favor the Tutsi. Maybe it was painted as a religious fight but we can see that the roots of the hate come from somewhere else.

I am sure there were other excuse too, but Catholic vs folk religion was a major factor

Concerning the call to kill people in religious books, you are correct, there is one. But I was specific when I said, innocent people. I can only represent Islam on this matter and I am definitely sure that there is no call to hurt anyone that is innocent. Any call to fight is only out of self-defense.

Why do you think people who don't believe a particular religion or leave a religion are not innocent?

There used to be a couple of towers in new york that beg to differ. Those killed were (for the most part( innocent of any wrongdoing against Islam yet...

All this still doesn't tackle the main issue here. People will always find a reason to do harm and that harm is done for selfish reasons and nothing else. They'll just paint religion so that they can use it to control the masses. Think about the logic. If the individual is a true believer in God and wants to follow God's teachings they would abandon anything that the world has to offer. This would include power, riches, fame, etc.

Ahh the no true Scotsman argument, i understand. They cannot be true believers because they don't interpret your religion in the same way you do.

And yet people still kill people in the name of religion. The religion they have been raised to believe is the only true religion therefore anyone else is a disbeliever and must be eradicated.

 

[Clara Tea]

Hello Clara, and thank you for your comment.

I offer peace to everyone but I offer blessings to those that follow the guidance. Surely those that don't believe can't hope for blessings true?

And I don't think it's fair to judge an operational car by a reckless driver. If we were to break down a lot of the attacks you speak of, you'll see that it has nothing to do with Islam.

And honestly, it has been hard for a lot of Muslims no doubt, but the propaganda has also made people curious, and a lot have come to Islam, once they decide to read more up on it from objective sources. They come to realize that the Quran isn't a book that promotes violence, but rather self-defense.

That fatwa was complete nonsense lol. The Muslims made Solmon famous. If no one cared about that book, he would have been no one. But some uneducated Muslims went to the streets and caused a ruckus. These were the same Muslims that were at 'bars and clubs' the night before no following Islam, I might add.

It takes a strong person to stand alone, and the weak one stands in a crowd.

The Final Step: Blessing Your Enemies | Keep Believing Ministries

Christians believe in blessing everyone. (source above).

Sometimes enemies can be turned into friends. The wicked can be turned good.

I sometimes wonder why God allows evil, Satan, and hell. Then I think that maybe after years of roasting in the fires of hell, souls might repent. So, perhaps hell is just God's way of roasting souls until they are good? At which point, maybe he will let them into heaven. I know that souls sometimes are thrown out of heaven (Satan was cast to hell, for example).

Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia

Are you sure that the leader of Iran (Ayatollah Khomeni who issued the fatwa) was what you said? Please read the hypertext link above.

You said: "some uneducated Muslims went to the streets and caused a ruckus. These were the same Muslims that were at 'bars and clubs' the night before." Does that sound like the leader of Iran?

Also, there was a failed assassination attempt on Solmon Rushdie's life.

I think that we have a difference of opinion because you state things without giving sources, and your statements are wrong.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.

This forum is new to me, and I hope to find individuals that demonstrate intellectual integrity and can provide a civil and fruitful discussion.

That being said, I would like to see if there is anyone that has contentions about Islam. I don't have all the answers and I'm a student of knowledge myself, however, I promise I'll do my best to provide the questioner with a satisfactory response, or the response can open the door to the exchange of ideas in a constructive manner.

I'm not here to convince anyone, because it is my belief that only God that can turn people's hearts. I'm simply here to view your contentions and hopefully, together we can clear them up.

Please name one major contention you have about Islam and we can discuss it.

I guess I don't really know enough about it, as to the differentiating particulars.

I have one question though, and that is, is Islam, or are Islamic communities, more sympathetic to either a capitalist model or a socialist one? What are its specific beliefs on toil in general. In the bible, there is Genesis 3:17 and Matthew 25:29, that in conjunction, do lay out the entire biblical philosophy regarding work/labor. (though these may actually conflict with each other, on closer inspection.) So what does Islam say about this?

 

[ChristineM]

Assalamuwa'alaikum

Are you asking disbelievers for insults?
That's what usually happens.

I find not asking believers makes no difference, they insult non believers anyway

 

[Revoltingest]

Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.

This forum is new to me, and I hope to find individuals that demonstrate intellectual integrity and can provide a civil and fruitful discussion.

Greetings, & good luck with that!
Now, join us in the staff cafeteria for scintillating & civil
discussion of the religious & political issues of the day.
Today's topics are race relations & Olympic curling.

 

[Come2thelight]

Thank you for showing me the way!!

Why do you think people who don't believe a particular religion or leave a religion are not innocent?

I never said they weren't. Everyone is innocent unless proven otherwise.

There used to be a couple of towers in new york that beg to differ. Those killed were (for the most part( innocent of any wrongdoing against Islam yet...

There is nothing in Islam that allows this. People are messed up and I'll concede to that 24/7. A person's misuse of something is the person's fault. For example, a person that doesn't take their pills correctly and as time goes on, they get worse. Will it be right to blame the pills or the fact that the person misused them?

They cannot be true believers because they don't interpret your religion in the same way you do.

Not necessarily, but because a lot of their extremist beliefs can be proven to be false. If the individual has intellectual integrity.

The religion they have been raised to believe is the only true religion therefore anyone else is a disbeliever and must be eradicated.

Indeed everyone is a product of sequences of events. If a person held a certain belief and saw evidence that goes against their belief, a sincere individual will eventually give up that belief, right? The one that sees the evidence against their belief and they still continue to believe, could be called delusional. Does that seem reasonable?

On the flipside. If one has a certain belief, and they see evidence that supports their belief, wouldn't it be rational to say that the belief will eventually be upgraded into conviction as more evidence is presented to support that belief?

 

[Clara Tea]

How do people usually point?

Carefully.

 

[Clara Tea]

Thank you for showing me the way!!



I never said they weren't. Everyone is innocent unless proven otherwise.



There is nothing in Islam that allows this. People are messed up and I'll concede to that 24/7. A person's misuse of something is the person's fault. For example, a person that doesn't take their pills correctly and as time goes on, they get worse. Will it be right to blame the pills or the fact that the person misused them?



Not necessarily, but because a lot of their extremist beliefs can be proven to be false. If the individual has intellectual integrity.



Indeed everyone is a product of sequences of events. If a person held a certain belief and saw evidence that goes against their belief, a sincere individual will eventually give up that belief, right? The one that sees the evidence against their belief and they still continue to believe, could be called delusional. Does that seem reasonable?

On the flipside. If one has a certain belief, and they see evidence that supports their belief, wouldn't it be rational to say that the belief will eventually be upgraded into conviction as more evidence is presented to support that belief?

So, does Islam eradicate all non-believers or just some non-believers?

 

[Come2thelight]

Are you sure that the leader of Iran (Ayatollah Khomeni who issued the fatwa) was what you said? Please read the hypertext link above.

When I say it was a useless fatwa I mean that just because some guy insulted Islam and the Prophet, that doesn't give a person the right to kill them. People during the Prophet's time have seen worse done to him and they weren't allowed to do anything. So why should any Muslim in this century be an exception? Education is what is needed and that is done through empathy, compassion, love, tolerance, acceptance, and so forth.

Does that sound like the leader of Iran

No, but the point I was making wasn't talking about anyone specific, rather towards the idea that people can't decide to be a Muslim today just because someone made them feel uncomfortable or because some other people are upset and they're just joining due to the association.

And my mistake, I didn't see anything that was stated by me that required sources. If you point them out, I'd be more than happy to provide them.

 

[Come2thelight]

So, does Islam eradicate all non-believers or just some non-believers?

Neither... We have to live in peace. There is no such call to eradicate a group in Islamic teachings.

 

[muhammad_isa]

By the way, the people who claim to act in God's name might not be lying..

G-d knows who is lying and who is not.

By and large, people act for political reasons.
It is not always easy to know, but G-d knows.

It seems as if everything is coming home to roost.
It seems that Russia and China have decided that they have had enough of being controlled by "the west".
It's not going away..
What's to blame?

Is it religion?
..or is it political ideologies?

 

[Come2thelight]

I guess I don't really know enough about it, as to the differentiating particulars.

I have one question though, and that is, is Islam, or are Islamic communities, more sympathetic to either a capitalist model or a socialist one? What are its specific beliefs on toil in general. In the bible, there is Genesis 3:17 and Matthew 25:29, that in conjunction, do lay out the entire biblical philosophy regarding work/labor. (though these may actually conflict with each other, on closer inspection.) So what does Islam say about this?

Hello and thank you for your comment and question. In simply one word, it would be neither. Islam's system would be a bit of both. One is allowed to make as much as one can. There is no monopoly though. The distribution of wealth to the community comes in the form of charity and zakat (which is the annual tax for Muslims).

 

[metis]

Welcome!

 

[Come2thelight]

Welcome!

Thank you!!