My five year-old son is gay

[Storm]

I agree that the title was a little weird, but I don't see why that determines your view of your from the beginning. I thought it was weird too when I started reading, but I still saw her just as a woman who was trying to help her son, and got frustrated with the reaction.

Well, it wasn't JUST that. It was everything together. Tomato broke it down a couple of posts up.

The thing is, if you want to be supportive, you have to be supportive when the kid decides he DOESN'T want to do it, too.

Everything about this story screams "political football" to me. Like I said, there are certainly worse agendas, but the whole thing is just distasteful.

 

[tomato1236]

What reaction?

Presumably the other moms trying to indicate that there was something concerning about the 5 year-old dressing like a girl.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I applaud the mother. Although crossdressing doesn't make one gay, but it still takes a very open, understanding, and wonderful parent to allow their child to do such a thing.

 

[Walkntune]

Yes, no agenda, you're correct. But that's because I don't consider telling a story to be an example for others to be "an agenda" because I'm not a right-wing Christian. __________________

I knew there was an agenda for you saying there was no agenda.

 

[Magic Man]

What reaction?

The reaction of the other mothers specifically.

 

[Magic Man]

Well, it wasn't JUST that. It was everything together. Tomato broke it down a couple of posts up.

Yeah, I get it. I just don't understand the pessimism in this case. It didn't come off that way to me, but I wasn't looking for it to either.

The thing is, if you want to be supportive, you have to be supportive when the kid decides he DOESN'T want to do it, too.

Sure, and if he really, really didn't want to do it, she should have accepted that. All we know, though, is that he had second thoughts, and she tried to convince him to do it despite the possibility of getting made fun of for being different.

Everything about this story screams "political football" to me. Like I said, there are certainly worse agendas, but the whole thing is just distasteful.

Yeah, I guess it's just two different ways of looking at it. As I said I just don't understand this reaction to it. Nothing screams that to me. It just sounds like a mom frustrated with our society to me.

 

[monta]

Presumably the other moms trying to indicate that there was something concerning about the 5 year-old dressing like a girl.

And that’s where things went wrong. Two mothers went wide-eyed and made faces as if they smelled decomp. And I realize that my son is seeing the same thing I am. So I say, “Doesn’t he look great?” And Mom A says in disgust, “Did he ask to be that?!” I say that he sure did as Halloween is the time of year that you can be whatever it is that you want to be. They continue with their nosy, probing questions as to how that was an option and didn’t I try to talk him out of it. Mom B mostly just stood there in shock and dismay.

And then Mom C approaches. She had been in the main room, saw us walk in, and followed us down the hall to let me know her thoughts. And they were that I should never have ‘allowed’ this and thank God it wasn’t next year when he was in Kindergarten since I would have had to put my foot down and ‘forbidden’ it. To which I calmly replied that I would do no such thing and couldn’t imagine what she was talking about. She continued on and on about how mean children could be and how he would be ridiculed.

Their reactions were not great, but we only have this woman's pov. It sounds like the other women were concerned about how this would impact the boy socially, whether this was misguided or any of their business is debatable.

It shouldn't matter if a kid wants to dress up like a girl, but reality check time, it does. Maybe what she did will benefit society, but in my opinion her kid should come first to her. It reminded me a little (no where near as extreme) of the parents walking their terrified kids to Holy Cross school in Northern Ireland escorted by soldiers while a crowd of loyalists screamed threats and abuse at them, brilliant publicity stunt but at what price?

[youtube]VZOm0MUtGaw[/youtube]
YouTube - Holy Cross (2001)

 

[Storm]

Yeah, I get it. I just don't understand the pessimism in this case. It didn't come off that way to me, but I wasn't looking for it to either.

Sure, and if he really, really didn't want to do it, she should have accepted that. All we know, though, is that he had second thoughts, and she tried to convince him to do it despite the possibility of getting made fun of for being different.

Yeah, I guess it's just two different ways of looking at it. As I said I just don't understand this reaction to it. Nothing screams that to me. It just sounds like a mom frustrated with our society to me.

Well, I hope you're right. At the very least, that was not how I would have handled it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Presumably the other moms trying to indicate that there was something concerning about the 5 year-old dressing like a girl.

The mom of the child done nothing wrong. And what concern is there really that a five year old boy is wearing a girl's costume? Being five years old it's likely it was just something he wanted to try, and he really isn't transgendered. And what's wrong with the mother encouraging her child? Alot of people feel insecure or nervous about something, and need an encouraging push. Have you ever given a speech or been on stage in front of a large audience? That is a very normal thing, yet people get very nervous over it, worry about what people will think about them, worry about something they might do or say that will get others laughing at them, worries about being ridiculed, and so on. It's really no different than going out dressed as the opposite sex. It's a very nerve racking thing, and usually a healthy dose of encouragement to get pushed out of the door is needed and worth it in the end.

 

[monta]

It's neither here nor there but it needs to be pointed out that statistically most transvestites, by an overwhelming majority are straight.

 

[Walkntune]

And what I got from that was that she was trying to tell him "Just be yourself, and who cares what they think?". I saw that as a good thing. I think we're starting with different views of this woman. I just see her having this episode with her son, and being frustrated with the rest of society that doesn't like things that aren't "normal", so she wrote a post about it. I never got the impression she was trying to say "Look at me, and how cool I am".

True it is important to be yourself but only after you know what being yourself is.
A child only learns who they are by others opinions and so therefore needs some protection instead of just being thrown out there. You need developed self esteem to be yourself and many times this isn't learned until after the awkwardness of being a teenager if one ever does learn it.

 

[Magic Man]

True it is important to be yourself but only after you know what being yourself is.

Being yourself is being yourself. When you're 5 and you want to wear a female Halloween costume, being yourself is wearing the female Halloween costume.

A child only learns who they are by others opinions and so therefore needs some protection instead of just being thrown out there.

Huh? A child shouldn't learn who he is by others' opinions. They should learn that others' opinions don't really matter most of the time.

You need developed self esteem to be yourself and many times this isn't learned until after the awkwardness of being a teenager if one ever does learn it.

You need to be encouraged to be yourself no matter how old you are.

 

[tomato1236]

Being yourself is being yourself. When you're 5 and you want to wear a female Halloween costume, being yourself is wearing the female Halloween costume.



Huh? A child shouldn't learn who he is by others' opinions. They should learn that others' opinions don't really matter most of the time.



You need to be encouraged to be yourself no matter how old you are.

How does one not be himself? Can I be someone else?

 

[Magic Man]

How does one not be himself? Can I be someone else?

By not doing the things you'd normally do just because of the possible reaction of others.

 

[tomato1236]

By not doing the things you'd normally do just because of the possible reaction of others.

How does that make me not myself? Doesn't that just make me someone who is insecure, if anything?

Also, aren't there other times when it's valid to change your behavior based on the likely reactions of others, like when I fee like slapping a random girl's butt?

 

[tomato1236]

Aren't you, and the lady in the OP basically advocates of the idea "Stop trying to be something you're not"? Is this really a worthy mantra?

Do we not have the ability and desire to shape who we are throughout our lives regardless of our motive to do so? Have you never looked back and thought how different you are now than you used to be? Does this mean you're not yourself?

 

[Magic Man]

How does that make me not myself? Doesn't that just make me someone who is insecure, if anything?

It makes you not yourself because you're not doing something you, as yourself, would do.

Also, aren't there other times when it's valid to change your behavior based on the likely reactions of others, like when I fee like slapping a random girl's butt?

Yes, but I'm pretty sure you can see the difference between not doing an action because of the possibly harmful effect it has on others and not doing it because you're afraid to be made fun of.

Aren't you, and the lady in the OP basically advocates of the idea "Stop trying to be something you're not"? Is this really a worthy mantra?

Yes, and yes, it is. Do you think it's not?

Do we not have the ability and desire to shape who we are throughout our lives regardless of our motive to do so? Have you never looked back and thought how different you are now than you used to be? Does this mean you're not yourself?

Why the hostility towards the idea of being yourself? Yes, we have the ability to shape who we are, but there are pieces of us that are there whether we want them to be or not. Sexuality is the best example. You can try to ignore or suppress your homosexuality, but it's only going to make your life harder and less happy.

Also, yes, people change over time. You need to be who you are, though. Sometimes that means acting one way when you're younger, and then acting a different way when you're older. You seem to be trying to discredit the idea of being yourself by digging too deep into it and taking it as something it's not.

 

[LuisDantas]

To a degree, Walkntune is correct. However, it is not enough of a degree to really matter here.

 

[tomato1236]

It makes you not yourself because you're not doing something you, as yourself, would do.



Yes, but I'm pretty sure you can see the difference between not doing an action because of the possibly harmful effect it has on others and not doing it because you're afraid to be made fun of.



Yes, and yes, it is. Do you think it's not?



Why the hostility towards the idea of being yourself? Yes, we have the ability to shape who we are, but there are pieces of us that are there whether we want them to be or not. Sexuality is the best example. You can try to ignore or suppress your homosexuality, but it's only going to make your life harder and less happy.

Also, yes, people change over time. You need to be who you are, though. Sometimes that means acting one way when you're younger, and then acting a different way when you're older. You seem to be trying to discredit the idea of being yourself by digging too deep into it and taking it as something it's not.

I think that self-acceptance is excellent. I just think the phrase "be yourself" is stupid. If "myself" is someone who changes his behavior because others make me feel I should, then that characteristic is part of "myself". You can't be anything other than what you. No matter how hard you try. Even if you act like someone else. You're an actor. You're still you.

I also worry that the "Be yourself" concept discourages the "Be more than you are" concept. Sure some things aren't readily changeable, but most things are. What if the kid's not gay, and in 11 months he decides he doesn't want to dress like a girl for Halloween. Is the mom going to tell him to stop trying to change and be yourself?

 

[Magic Man]

I think that self-acceptance is excellent. I just think the phrase "be yourself" is stupid. If "myself" is someone who changes his behavior because others make me feel I should, then that characteristic is part of "myself". You can't be anything other than what you. No matter how hard you try. Even if you act like someone else. You're an actor. You're still you.

That's because you're not hearing the whole phrase, which is "be yourself, despite what others might think or say". It's an expression, and we all know what it means. You could be slightly more accurate and use more words, but by saying "Be yourself", we all understand the meaning.

I also worry that the "Be yourself" concept discourages the "Be more than you are" concept. Sure some things aren't readily changeable, but most things are. What if the kid's not gay, and in 11 months he decides he doesn't want to dress like a girl for Halloween. Is the mom going to tell him to stop trying to change and be yourself?

Why would she tell him that? You're way overthinking this. The phrase "be yourself" just means "do what you want without worrying about what others think of you". If a while down the road, the kid doesn't like dressing in women's clothes because he just doesn't like it anymore, then fine. If he decides that because he doesn't like how others treat him because of it, no one would blame him, but it's sad.