My five year-old son is gay

[dust1n]

Fair enough. I'd be angered if someone made assumptions about my kid.

My point - this entire situation was easily avoidable. It would surprise me if she didn't know that she was placing her kid at risk for ridicule.

Really, because she clearly outlines her misunderstanding with the situation.

Then as we got closer to the actual day, he stared to hem and haw about it. After some discussion it comes out that he is afraid people will laugh at him. I pointed out that some people will because it is a cute and clever costume. He insists their laughter would be of the ‘making fun’ kind. I blow it off. Seriously, who would make fun of a child in costume?

At this kid's age - the costume was completely her call.

Yea? Who is debating that?

 

[dust1n]

I am so tired of people trying to push they're damn "so-and-so has this agenda" agendas on me!

You obviously have some anti-anti-agenda agenda up your sleeve.

 

[dust1n]

Telling the truth never hurt. How about yes son , you are right that some people may laugh at you but you do what you feel comfortable with and I support you either way?

Again, she admits her mistake.

 

[dust1n]

First -the 5-year-old kid's decision to dress as a female character didn't necessarily have anything to do with his own sexual identity or orientation -and most probably did not. From what we're told, and from what can be known about sexual identity and orientation of 5-year-olds, the kid most likely simply wanted to dress as a character he liked. Much of the rest was most likely projected by others. We're so concerned -even obsessed -with gender issues these days that we don't stop to think that a 5-year-old really is not! He's just being a kid. People need to be careful not to burden children with issues and concepts which they are not actually thinking about and which really do not apply -and adding to their frustration and confusion in an attempt to make them "free to do what they want"! (Which usually ends up being what the parent thinks they should do!)

I (a male-now 41) portrayed a female in a school production (Catholic school, even) -long after the age of 5. I was given an assignment to somehow explain the Andromeda Galaxy. I didn't have to dress as the Greek princess after whom the galaxy was named as I explained it -but I did. Even at an age far beyond 5, it had absolutely nothing to do with my sexuality WHATSOEVER! I had no desire to cross-dress, except for this production, and only in order to complete the assignment. I was way-too-into girls at the time, too. I can still remember the girls names on whom I had major crushes! It ended up being freekin' hilarious!

Agreed!

"he stared to hem and haw about it. After some discussion it comes out that he is afraid people will laugh at him. I pointed out that some people will because it is a cute and clever costume. He insists their laughter would be of the ‘making fun’ kind. I blow it off. "

I'm not judging -but that's just a lie. Might as well be honest and tell the kid that he's right -most people will be laughing at him -even "making fun of" him because he's a guy dressed as a girl. This allows him to make his own informed decision. Parents are often busy, however, and don't often have the luxury of thinking about what they'll say for very long. Still -we know far more than our children, and we need to honestly inform them of the potential consequences of their decisions without discouraging them -in a way they can understand, and on a level which will not overwhelm them.

"Yes, Stewie, you are feeling the burden of a thing called 'homophobia'. It's where guys like you act femininely in which your sexual identity will be questioned and taunted, not only by the other kids, but by their parents as well, because they think you are going to want to suck their kids' penis. Oh by the way, did I ever tell you about the birds and the bees?"

 

[Etritonakin]

Let's not kid ourselves here. Why would Lady C think kids would ridicule him for his costume? He is wearing girls clothing. What other than homophobia is this? It's a boy dressing like a girl. There was nothing racy or revealing about it. So what is the REASON it is 'forbidden'?

Many believe in certain actions, etc., are appropriate to certain genders -that's not going to go away anytime soon. They are usually based in religion, though people may not realize it. The religions which have this or that to say about what is correct and incorrect for this or that gender often address not being cruel to one another, also, but, sadly, that is usually forgotten or conveniently disregarded.

People's disagreement or freaking out may not necessarily be homophobia. I can't speak for others, but...

I try to treat everyone well no matter who they are, but I don't necessarily agree with them. I have religious beliefs concerning gender, but I don't force them down anyone's throat.
However, due to my beliefs, I do have concerns about people's relationship with God. These include, but are not limited to, things relating to gender.

I sincerely believe that everyone will eventually have to turn from transgressing the ten commandments in order to live forever (some after they die). Since I sincerely want everyone to live forever, I am concerned with how their decisions will affect their future. I am just as concerned with my own decisions -and don't think myself better than any other.

I am also concerned with parents living through their children to their hurt -which is sometimes the case.

 

[Etritonakin]

Agreed!



"Yes, Stewie, you are feeling the burden of a thing called 'homophobia'. It's where guys like you act femininely in which your sexual identity will be questioned and taunted, not only by the other kids, but by their parents as well, because they think you are going to want to suck their kids' penis. Oh by the way, did I ever tell you about the birds and the bees?"

Not what I meant at all.

When the kid goes in there and realizes that mommy lied -and that, yes, people are making fun of him -that won't help anything -it'll just help stewie realize that mommy doesn't know what she's talking about -or doesn't say it.
No need to bring up the whole concept of homophobia -which is only a part of the explanation, anyway -or the penis-sucking, because that's probably not even on li'l stewie's mind -and he doesn't need to know everything ignorant parents are thinking. He needs to be a kid now and deal with that stupidity when it's really an issue to HIM.
Yes -an excellent time to bring up the birds and bees!

At the costume store...
"If you wear that. people might make fun of you."
"Why?"
"Because some people think that some clothes belong on women, and some belong on men."
etc.., etc..
of course what follows will vary depending on what the parent feels they need to teach the child -and sometimes it will not be good, no matter the person's ideas concerning gender.

..and if a parent is wondering why the child might want to wear that costume... rather than assuming he's gay or a born cross-dresser -or that it has anything to do with the child's sexual orientation or identity WHATSOEVER...
In a matter-of-fact tone... "Why did you choose that costume?
etc.., etc...

The answer could be as simple as "Cuz Daphne always catches the ghost!"

..could save a lot of unnecessary drama!

 

[dust1n]

People's disagreement or freaking out may not necessarily be homophobia. I can't speak for others, but...

Social homophobia

The word can be used to describe the fear of a heterosexual that they will be approached romantically by someone of the same sex.


The fear of being identified as gay can be considered as a form of social homophobia. Theorists including Calvin Thomas and Judith Butler have suggested that homophobia can be rooted in an individual's fear of being identified as gay. Homophobia in men is correlated with insecurity about masculinity.[50][51] For this reason, allegedly homophobia is rampant in sports, and in the subculture of its supporters, that are considered stereotypically "male", like football (rugby).[52]


These theorists have argued that a person who expresses homophobic thoughts and feelings does so not only to communicate their beliefs about the class of gay people, but also to distance themselves from this class and its social status. Thus, by distancing themselves from gay people, they are reaffirming their role as a heterosexual in a heteronormative culture, thereby attempting to prevent themselves from being labeled and treated as a gay person. This interpretation alludes to the idea that a person may posit violent opposition to "the Other" as a means of establishing their own identity as part of the majority and thus gaining social validation.


Nancy J. Chodorow states that homophobia can be viewed as a method of protection of male masculinity.[53]


Various psychoanalytic theories explain homophobia as a threat to an individual's own same-sex impulses, whether those impulses are imminent or merely hypothetical. This threat causes repression, denial or reaction formation.[54]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia#cite_note-53
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

 

[dust1n]

Not what I meant at all.

Sure, so your kid wants to dress up like Daphne, and then two days later expresses his doubts. So, specifically, what would you say to your kid (you might want to try free forming this, too) in which you were being realistic and weren't 'lying' at all.

 

[Etritonakin]

Sure, so your kid wants to dress up like Daphne, and then two days later expresses his doubts. So, specifically, what would you say to your kid (you might want to try free forming this, too) in which you were being realistic and weren't 'lying' at all.

Please see edit above.

I understand that homophobia plays a role.

I'm going to assume the role of that particular parent at that particular time, because I believe I would have addressed the issue before that time...

Let's say the kid starts out... in the car, outside the get-together....

*"I don't wanno go in"
"Why not"
*"People are gonna make fun of me"
"What would you like to do?"

????????????????????????????

I mean, the kid's barely getting his head around cooties!
You really want to explain the above post about homophobia to him????????
Maybe later -IF it has ANYTHING to do with HIS situation -and then very simply.

Kids today are thinking about more -and at a younger age -but that's not necessarily always GOOD.

 

[dust1n]

Not what I meant at all.

When the kid goes in there and realizes that mommy lied -and that, yes, people are making fun of him -that won't help anything -it'll just help stewie realize that mommy doesn't know what she's talking about -or doesn't say it.

Why is bad for a kid to realize their parents don't know what they are talking about?

No need to bring up the whole concept of homophobia -which is only a part of the explanation, anyway -or the penis-sucking, because that's probably not even on li'l stewie's mind -and he doesn't need to know everything ignorant parents are thinking.

If you reinforce in kids what is appropriate for them to wear as, which would be excluding cross dressing, you are attempting to blotch out what is not consider 'normal sexuality', making it far more liking that they will later in life attempt to blotch out what is not considered 'normal sexuality' which, seeing how their parents are Christians, seems like 'normal sexuality' would be the whole 'one man one woman' ordeal that so many of them subscribe to. (Not saying that you do.)

He needs to be a kid now and deal with that stupidity when it's really an issue to HIM.
Yes -an excellent time to bring up the birds and bees!

What do the birds and the bees have to do with a Halloween costume?

At the costume store...
"If you wear that. people might make fun of you."
"Why?"
"Because some people think that some clothes belong on women, and some belong on men."
etc.., etc..

It's funny how realistic those 'etc..'s are, especially considering how they might end up being referring to further "Why?"

of course what follows will vary depending on what the parent feels they need to teach the child -and sometimes it will not be good, no matter the person's ideas concerning gender.

..and if a parent is wondering why the child might want to wear that costume... rather than assuming he's gay or a born cross-dresser -or that it has anything to do with the child's sexual orientation or identity WHATSOEVER...

Which is great, because the mother didn't assume that at all, just the women she ends up talking to at the preschool.

 

[dust1n]

Please see edit above.

I understand that homophobia plays a role.

I'm going to assume the role of that particular parent at that particular time, because I believe I would have addressed the issue before that time...

Let's say the kid starts out... in the car, outside the get-together....

*"I don't wanno go in"
"Why not"
*"People are gonna make fun of me"
"What would you like to do?"

????????????????????????????

I mean, the kid's barely getting his head around cooties!
You really want to explain the above post about homophobia to him????????
Maybe later -IF it has ANYTHING to do with HIS situation -and then very simply.

And my problem is is that you referred to the blog writer as a liar. She said people will make fun of him. He was still aware that people will make fun of him, regardless the circumstances. She withheld the details, sure, but in your method, you are still withholding tons of details. It doesn't make you a liar.

"he stared to hem and haw about it. After some discussion it comes out that he is afraid people will laugh at him. I pointed out that some people will because it is a cute and clever costume. He insists their laughter would be of the ‘making fun’ kind. I blow it off. "

I'm not judging -but that's just a lie. Might as well be honest and tell the kid that he's right -most people will be laughing at him -even "making fun of" him because he's a guy dressed as a girl. This allows him to make his own informed decision. Parents are often busy, however, and don't often have the luxury of thinking about what they'll say for very long. Still -we know far more than our children, and we need to honestly inform them of the potential consequences of their decisions without discouraging them -in a way they can understand, and on a level which will not overwhelm them.

 

[Etritonakin]

Why is bad for a kid to realize their parents don't know what they are talking about?

If you reinforce in kids what is appropriate for them to wear as, which would be excluding cross dressing, you are attempting to blotch out what is not consider 'normal sexuality', making it far more liking that they will later in life attempt to blotch out what is not considered 'normal sexuality' which, seeing how their parents are Christians, seems like 'normal sexuality' would be the whole 'one man one woman' ordeal that so many of them subscribe to. (Not saying that you do.)

What do the birds and the bees have to do with a Halloween costume?

It's funny how realistic those 'etc..'s are, especially considering how they might end up being referring to further "Why?"

of course what follows will vary depending on what the parent feels they need to teach the child -and sometimes it will not be good, no matter the person's ideas concerning gender.



Which is great, because the mother didn't assume that at all, just the women she ends up talking to at the preschool.

It's not bad for kids to realize their parents aren't perfect, but it's best for parents to know what they're talking about -and when they do, express it, rather than undermine their child's trust in their word.

You do not know that the mother did not assume something at that moment. I think it is evident that it is at least possible that she assumed the child's decision had something to do, IN HIS MIND, with sexuality rather than identifying with a popular character for any number of reasons not including sexuality or gender.

When the child picked up the costume, and the parent knew (should have known) it could lead to ridicule -right or wrong -it would have been responsible for the parent -NO MATTER THEIR OWN VIEWS -to bring up that possibility to their child -and discuss THAT PART of the "birds and bees" as it might relate to why they might be ridiculed. I think doing so then could have prevented the fiasco on the day -not due to pushing any religious belief, but by understanding the child's motives and explaining the possibilities. Though I, personally, would teach from a religious perspective, I don't even think it would have been necessary, as sexuality was probably not the real issue to the child -but liking the character -not necessarily due to anything relating to gender.

Yes, there are an infinite number of WHY?s -and they should be addressed AS THE CHILD IS CAPABLE OF PROCESSING THE ANSWERS -and AS THEY RELATE TO THE CHILD AND CURRENT SUBJECT.
As it relates to clothing, there are a number of issues to address. There are good reasons for certain people to wear -and not wear certain clothes. There are also bad reasons.

I most definitely believe that it is ideal -especially for creating the best environment for raising a child -for a male and female to be married before having sex and remain together exclusively. I would definitely explain this in detail to my children -given the opportunity. (I actually did not have that opportunity partly because I did not always adhere to that -which is probably the worst way to prove a point!)

Though I would teach my children and raise them according to my beliefs -which I have proven exhaustively and would feel responsible to teach them, I would encourage them to prove their own beliefs. I would definitely try to discourage them from abnormal sexuality -and explain how sexuality relates to God -and obedience to him (Our reproduction is a mirror of God reproducing himself -
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren) -and that God is the ultimate authority on -and requires -"normal" sexuality and other things in order to be given eternal life later -and in order to be happy and stable now. While I was raising them, they would be required to abide by certain rules regardless of their beliefs (kids will disobey, anyway, but you DO still have to try), though I would be accepting of their beliefs and not make them feel uncomfortable for having them. When they were of the age to be independent, they would be free to do anything they chose wherever they went -though I would still give advice when I thought it was necessary.

I would also teach them to not be judgmental -to treat everyone well -to help those who need help regardless of who they are -to defend those who are being persecuted -to be slow to speak, slow to anger, quick to understand, etc...

I also realize that they would not necessarily adhere to the same beliefs I have, and that having real beliefs requires a bit of living and experience -but as I have proven my beliefs exhaustively, I do believe they would eventually return to them -and would have laid a good foundation for them.

But... life is life. Sometimes it happens before you have any beliefs at all -I haven't always believed the way I do -and even then haven't always done what I believe.
Even then we don't always have many choices.

 

[Etritonakin]

Point taken (@^*%^@$ -that's not easy to get from me -hehehehehe)-a very small percentage may have laughed because the costume was cute, etc...
-not technically a lie, but also not addressing the point which was obviously most important to the child at the time.

"My method" would have withheld some things, yes - but addressed the most important issues.. what the child was feeling, why -and what he wanted to do about it -as in.... letting him be him.
"I pointed out that some people will because it is a cute and clever costume. He insists their laughter would be of the ‘making fun’ kind. I blow it off" -does not say what you said it said. It, at least, suggests that she was suggesting they would not be ridiculing him for anyother reason than the one she put forth. It definitely suggests she was avoiding the real issue.

I realize I am not the norm in this regard, but I am far more accepting, tolerant and open-minded since I developed deep religious beliefs and began to study the bible, etc.... I find I am much more able to see a person rather than get caught up in their beliefs, lifestyles, etc... which aren't often permanent and are constantly changing, anyway.

Anyway -good convo -have to get some beauty sleep (really -I'm lookin' bad here) -have a good night!

 

[Magic Man]

It is already all over the Internet. I said what I have to say and those who see beneath the surface see my points.

Haha! No, those who see what you see see what you see. It has nothing to do with "seeing beneath the surface". You can console yourself with that thought, but it's not true. You see something different that many other people. It seems to be because that's what you want to see. I see the story for what it is: a supportive mom being frustrated with some other moms at her child's school.

 

[Magic Man]

her decision to ignore these realistic concerns are what is annoying me, more than anything else. It's what gives the impression that she is exploiting her kid either for notoriety or from boredom.

It's what gives you that impression. I'm not burdened with a false impression. There was no ignoring the concerns. It was a refusal to give in to those possibilities. The real situation was she was being supportive of her son's decision to the point of convincing him to be himself even though there might be some negative reactions. That, we can all agree, is a good thing. I still fail to see what people have against this woman that they'll purposely twist that into something negative about a good, supportive parent. It's really boggling my mind.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm not saying it isn't possible that what is being proposed is 'not possible'. However, there is nothing to suggest the outrageous claims made so far on this woman's intentions, persona and 'agenda list', and yet they were made despite any reasonable indicator in either the blog post or the news clip, which was edited of course, who were the ones who exploited the child if anything, btw.

It's odd how we adore 'innocent until proven guilty' in our legal system but never utilize it our own judgments.

It really reminds me of the "mosque at Ground Zero". "Well, we don't know that it's not being funded by terrorists, so we can safely assume it is." "I know, imam Rauf has done a lot of good in Muslim-American relations, but look at this one thing he said here. That means he's an extremist who wants to take over America!" "Why can't they just build it elsewhere so as not to cause problems?"

I just can't help see the similarities, which is why I'm surprised by some of the people here using some of that same reasoning in this case even though they can see how crazy it is in the other case.

 

[Magic Man]

For crying out loud.

What mother would make such a statement to her five year old kid?

You said it was the mother's choice what costume the kid wore. That would imply that the mother should say "No, you can't wear the costume you want to, because I said so".

My kid wanted to be something for Harvest Fair (at the church) that I knew wouldn't be allowed. When she asked, my answer was no. A clear and firm no. No explanations required.

Come on. I know you can see the difference between something that's not allowed and something that's allowed but that some people might not approve of.

 

[monta]

Really, because "No you can't wear that costume because, while I personallyhave NO problem with it, everyone else will. So sorry son, you have to wear a boy costume. Like I said, baby, it's not me, or my fault, blame everyone else", would have been a GREAT thing to say instead?

This is the main issue I have with her, when he expressed a realistic concern about being teased, she brushed the concerns off instead of telling the truth, which is that there is a strong possibility that you might get teased for wearing a girls costume, after that if it's still what he wanted, of course she should have supported him. As it turned out he didn't get teased, so even if the parents do have some backwards notions, at least they haven 't instilled them in their kids, or else the school has done an excellent job in quashing them.

 

[dawny0826]

You said it was the mother's choice what costume the kid wore. That would imply that the mother should say "No, you can't wear the costume you want to, because I said so".


Come on. I know you can see the difference between something that's not allowed and something that's allowed but that some people might not approve of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I follow you. The ladies that talked smack about the kid are mean and intolerant. I get that.

He expressed his concern about the costume. She sends him in it anyway. He's then poked at and she proceeds to post a picture of him and a rant on the internet - focusing on how wrong everyone else was in this situation. I don't buy that she didn't see this coming. And now her son is literally all over the internet. I've seen him on multiple websites and I'm sure he's circulating through email.

I couldn't do that to my kid. I don't see this as a noble act of heroism.

I don't discount the value in her message but I don't think she's used the best example, considering the fact that she didn't listen to her kid and he was made fun of. Now, she's spread his humiliation over the entire internet without care as to how he'll feel about this years from now when his picture is being captioned on LOLcats.

 

[Magic Man]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I follow you. The ladies that talked smack about the kid are mean and intolerant. I get that.

My entire point is that Mom put him out there in the costume. Most Moms that I know would feel a smidge guilty for placing their kid in a situation where he/she is ridiculed and wouldn't post a picture of their son on the internet in costume and complain about the intolerance of everyone else.

So, most moms you know aren't very supportive of their kids then? Maybe they should try to be a bit more like this mom.

it would be like my Mom sending me to a school dance in a low-cut dress and then bellyaching if someone referred to me as a ****. Is it fair to pass such judgement on people based on their clothing? Not really. But when Mom & I had other dress options - how angry should we be?

You should be pretty angry when the moms of other kids make negative comments about you. This mom should be pretty angry that some moms found it necessary to make negative comments about her son. And no, it wouldn't be like your mom sending you to a school dance in a low-cut dress and then "bellyaching" when someone referred to you as a ****, and the fact that you use the word "bellyaching" makes your biased position clear.