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My five year-old son is gay

dust1n

Zindīq
Of couse the pic makes a huge difference.She could could have addressed the issues she had about her son wearing his costume and having remarks made in a blog without a pic and without going into sexual preferences and all that added drama that wasn't necessary for the point.

Sure, the picture wasn't really necessary. But again, without back looking, you wouldn't be able to name the child or even tell me the color of his hair. And she couldn't have avoided the sexual preferences because her child was condemned by his peer's parents as being gay.


Thats why I said the added drama of being gay,(even making it part of the title for effect) and posting a pic of him which such a story attached was for her own agenda as far as addressing a point and was not very beneficial to the child(who should have been main concern to her).

Great.. so tell me more about this 'agenda'. What's next on it? What has been won? No one implied that story WAS beneficial for the child, but you guys keep assuming that it actually resulted in the child's suffering or embarrassment with nothing empirical to back it up. The mother was upset with some bigots and wrote about it on the blog. What is wrong with this?

The poor kid already seemed to have an anxiety of being made fun of for wearing the costume in public so the mother is going to post a pic of it on the internet for the world to see????
Really?! I didn't know you met him!
 
So? How many of the five-year-old's would feasibly go the a blog and read it? How many would remember the incident past a few moments, let alone place any emphasis on it. And I also suppose to expect that the mother knew ahead of time her blog would make it on CNN?

Oddly enough 5 year olds have access to the internet, they also have parents and siblings that have access to the internet and tv and were in class with him and know who he is,His mother was on CNN, it wasn't just a report on the blog she gave an interview. Unless this woman is mentally deficient she must have had a reasonable expectation that this would at the very least be a topic of conversation amongst the other parents, you can't get away from the fact that she admits her son had reservations prior to the party, her decision to ignore these realistic concerns are what is annoying me, more than anything else. It's what gives the impression that she is exploiting her kid either for notoriety or from boredom.

Oh, so you could pick this kid out of a group of fifty or so then, right? We will also look the same his entire life, since he's only five and all. You don't even know what color his hair is. Again, no reported incidences with other children bullying this child, so whats the problem anyways?

If I lived in this community I would know who he was and I never said anything about bullying.

Probably a little both. So what? Nativity and a desire for attention are embedded in most beings on this planet.

I don't believe so, and even if they are there are things that must be held higher than your own desire for attention, your child's well being is one of them.



Where are finding the concept that she doesn't guide, protect and love her child unconditionally? And why don't good parents tolerate their children's decisions?

My point was you don't get points for the bare minimum and love, guidance and protection are the bare minimum, accepting your child for who they are isn't a something you get accolades for, it is what you sign up for as a parent when you decide to have kids, and fwiw I do think she misguided her son when he voiced his concerns and she communicated to him they weren't valid. He had the right to the all the information before he made the decision.

BTW has anyone any actual evidence that there was a negative reaction from the parents, the town seem remarkably tight lipped, usually there are no end of ''concerned parents and neighbours'' willing to share their gems on gender politics.

Hopefully you are right and it will over, I don't get why it actually made it to the CNN desk in the first place, must be a slow news week for you guys. :shrug:
 
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McBell

Unbound
She's making this out to be everyone else's problem. I don't condone intolerance but, seriously, what did she expect? Halloween or not, she sent him to a Christian school dressed like a girl. To expect NO comments or intrigue is unrealistic.

I commend her for being accepting but she chose to exploit her son. That's her problem.

Would you please be so kind as to present how YOU define "rant"?
Thank you.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Sure, the picture wasn't really necessary. But again, without back looking, you wouldn't be able to name the child or even tell me the color of his hair. And she couldn't have avoided the sexual preferences because her child was condemned by his peer's parents as being gay.
I didn't notice the other parents making a comment about being gay in the op?




Thats why I said the added drama of being gay,(even making it part of the title for effect) and posting a pic of him which such a story attached was for her own agenda as far as addressing a point and was not very beneficial to the child(who should have been main concern to her).
Great.. so tell me more about this 'agenda'. What's next on it? What has been won? No one implied that story WAS beneficial for the child, but you guys keep assuming that it actually resulted in the child's suffering or embarrassment with nothing empirical to back it up. The mother was upset with some bigots and wrote about it on the blog. What is wrong with this?
You ask me about an agenda that I stated was about her addressing her point? Please read the op and posts before responding.

Really?! I didn't know you met him!
She mentioned his concern of being made fun of in the blog.

Where are you getting this stuff? Did you not notice that all of the kids at school were cool with it, high-fiving him and hugging him? Or does that not fit your twisted view of the situation so you ignore it? __________________
I didn't notice this but i got all of my info from the blog in the OP?Maybe I didn't twist my view enough to see it????
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
May I asked when I said it was unacceptable for you to do so? I'm just trying to understand where all of these generalizations about someone you don't know are coming from.
Well, you just seem to be taking it awfully personally. Meh, these things happen on the internet.

Anyway, my "generalizations" are coming from the same place yours are: the article.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Well, you just seem to be taking it awfully personally. Meh, these things happen on the internet.

Anyway, my "generalizations" are coming from the same place yours are: the article.
Only yours seem to be coming from the article from what I see.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Not, but I can certainly be irritated at them for taking notice and then implying here son was gay as if something was wrong with it. I can certainly do that.

Sure they would have. So why should the situation have been handled differently?

Fair enough. I'd be angered if someone made assumptions about my kid.

My point - this entire situation was easily avoidable. It would surprise me if she didn't know that she was placing her kid at risk for ridicule.

At this kid's age - the costume was completely her call.
 

Circle_One

Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I'd be angered if someone made assumptions about my kid.

My point - this entire situation was easily avoidable. It would surprise me if she didn't know that she was placing her kid at risk for ridicule.

At this kid's age - the costume was completely her call.

Really, because "No you can't wear that costume because, while I personallyhave NO problem with it, everyone else will. So sorry son, you have to wear a boy costume. Like I said, baby, it's not me, or my fault, blame everyone else", would have been a GREAT thing to say instead?
 

McBell

Unbound
"Rant" and "spout" are snyonymous.

Seriously, would you like a link to an online dictionary or something?

No.
I am merely interested in your particular definition of the word rant.

However, if you would rather be snippy, never mind.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Fair enough. I'd be angered if someone made assumptions about my kid.
People do that exact thing every single day.

My point - this entire situation was easily avoidable. It would surprise me if she didn't know that she was placing her kid at risk for ridicule.

At this kid's age - the costume was completely her call.
It was her call. And her child feeling secure enough in his relationship with his mother to make such a request shows they probably have a very good relationship. And why should a parent discourage a child because of what others think? Would you discourage a male child from joining dance, ballet, cheer leading, or even drama clubs because alot of people will assume your son is too feminine and gay, and will attack and question his masculinity every chance they have?
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Really, because "No you can't wear that costume because, while I personallyhave NO problem with it, everyone else will. So sorry son, you have to wear a boy costume. Like I said, baby, it's not me, or my fault, blame everyone else", would have been a GREAT thing to say instead?
Telling the truth never hurt. How about yes son , you are right that some people may laugh at you but you do what you feel comfortable with and I support you either way?
 
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dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Really, because "No you can't wear that costume because, while I personallyhave NO problem with it, everyone else will. So sorry son, you have to wear a boy costume. Like I said, baby, it's not me, or my fault, blame everyone else", would have been a GREAT thing to say instead?

For crying out loud.

What mother would make such a statement to her five year old kid?

My kid wanted to be something for Harvest Fair (at the church) that I knew wouldn't be allowed. When she asked, my answer was no. A clear and firm no. No explanations required.
 
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Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Then as we got closer to the actual day, he stared to hem and haw about it. After some discussion it comes out that he is afraid people will laugh at him. I pointed out that some people will because it is a cute and clever costume. He insists their laughter would be of the ‘making fun’ kind. I blow it off. Seriously, who would make fun of a child in costume?
And then the big day arrives. We get dressed up. We drop Squirt at his preschool and head over to his. Boo doesn’t want to get out of the car. He’s afraid of what people will say and do to him. I convince him to go inside. He halts at the door. He’s visibly nervous. I chalk it up to him being a bit of a worrier in general. Seriously, WHO WOULD MAKE FUN OF A CHILD IN A COSTUME ON HALLOWEEN? So he walks in. And there were several friends of mine that knew what he was wearing that smiled and waved and gave him high-fives. We walk down the hall to where his classroom is.

And that’s where things went wrong. Two mothers went wide-eyed and made faces as if they smelled decomp. And I realize that my son is seeing the same thing I am. So I say, “Doesn’t he look great?” And Mom A says in disgust, “Did he ask to be that?!” I say that he sure did as Halloween is the time of year that you can be whatever it is that you want to be. They continue with their nosy, probing questions as to how that was an option and didn’t I try to talk him out of it. Mom B mostly just stood there in shock and dismay.

And then Mom C approaches. She had been in the main room, saw us walk in, and followed us down the hall to let me know her thoughts. And they were that I should never have ‘allowed’ this and thank God it wasn’t next year when he was in Kindergarten since I would have had to put my foot down and ‘forbidden’ it. To which I calmly replied that I would do no such thing and couldn’t imagine what she was talking about. She continued on and on about how mean children could be and how he would be ridiculed.

My response to that: The only people that seem to have a problem with it is their mothers.

Another mom pointed out that high schools often have Spirit Days where girls dress like boys and vice versa. I mentioned Powderpuff Games where football players dress like cheerleaders and vice versa. Or every frat boy ever in college (Mom A said that her husband was a frat boy and NEVER dressed like a woman.)

But here’s the point, it is none of your damn business.

If you think that me allowing my son to be a female character for Halloween is somehow going to ‘make’ him gay then you are an idiot. Firstly, what a ridiculous concept. Secondly, if my son is gay, OK. I will love him no less. Thirdly, I am not worried that your son will grow up to be an actual ninja so back off.

First -the 5-year-old kid's decision to dress as a female character didn't necessarily have anything to do with his own sexual identity or orientation -and most probably did not. From what we're told, and from what can be known about sexual identity and orientation of 5-year-olds, the kid most likely simply wanted to dress as a character he liked. Much of the rest was most likely projected by others. We're so concerned -even obsessed -with gender issues these days that we don't stop to think that a 5-year-old really is not! He's just being a kid. People need to be careful not to burden children with issues and concepts which they are not actually thinking about and which really do not apply -and adding to their frustration and confusion in an attempt to make them "free to do what they want"! (Which usually ends up being what the parent thinks they should do!)

I (a male-now 41) portrayed a female in a school production (Catholic school, even) -long after the age of 5. I was given an assignment to somehow explain the Andromeda Galaxy. I didn't have to dress as the Greek princess after whom the galaxy was named as I explained it -but I did. Even at an age far beyond 5, it had absolutely nothing to do with my sexuality WHATSOEVER! I had no desire to cross-dress, except for this production, and only in order to complete the assignment. I was way-too-into girls at the time, too. I can still remember the girls names on whom I had major crushes! It ended up being freekin' hilarious!

"he stared to hem and haw about it. After some discussion it comes out that he is afraid people will laugh at him. I pointed out that some people will because it is a cute and clever costume. He insists their laughter would be of the ‘making fun’ kind. I blow it off. "

I'm not judging -but that's just a lie. Might as well be honest and tell the kid that he's right -most people will be laughing at him -even "making fun of" him because he's a guy dressed as a girl. This allows him to make his own informed decision. Parents are often busy, however, and don't often have the luxury of thinking about what they'll say for very long. Still -we know far more than our children, and we need to honestly inform them of the potential consequences of their decisions without discouraging them -in a way they can understand, and on a level which will not overwhelm them.

Seriously, who would make fun of a child in costume?

Seriously? Where did you grow up? I'm from planet Earth -where lots of people do that. I'm not saying it's right, but I can't understand the surprise.

Boo doesn’t want to get out of the car. He’s afraid of what people will say and do to him. I convince him to go inside. He halts at the door. He’s visibly nervous. I chalk it up to him being a bit of a worrier in general. Seriously, WHO WOULD MAKE FUN OF A CHILD IN A COSTUME ON HALLOWEEN? So he walks in.

We may not have the whole conversation here, but... if dressing that way was his decision in the first place -going in or not should also be completely his decision. Rather than being "convinced" to do what he obviously now does not want to do, he should be encouraged to choose as he wants. He should have the freedom to change his mind -for whatever reason. Even if he chose not to go in because he was afraid of what people would do and say, that IS a valid reason. It is good to stand up for what you believe, but, at this point, it may have been the parent taking over -convincing the child to stand for something which may not have applied -and which he did not fully understand. A better option at this point would probably have been to tell the child it was his decision in the first place -and that it was up to him whether or not he went in -and maybe asked if there was something else he wanted to do. People making fun of him is wrong, but if he was not prepared to deal with it, it could have very adverse effects. Especially with kids, it's ok to avoid too much attention and drama! It can easily get in the way of him becoming who he wants to be!

Even if the child wanted to make a statement (doubtful), he may not have been prepared to make it that day. Parents have a lot of influence over their children -even to convince them to do things they really do not want to do -or for which they are not prepared. They may also read much into their child's behavior which is not actually the case. This can lead to them dealing not with their child, but with whom they believe their child to be.

I have certain religious beliefs regarding gender, but if I were one of the people there, I would not make the kid feel more uncomfortable -or even the mother. I probably wouldn't have made it an issue either way. Most likely would have just said hello. If the parent asked what I thought of the costume, I probably would have said something to the affect that it was very creative or interesting. If she asked what I thought of what led up to that point, I would have told her the above. If they asked about my religious beliefs concerning gender, I would have explained them. I woud have handled it differently from the moment the child picked out the costume, given the opportunity, if it were my child, but it wasn't. People we don't agree with have kids -nothin' we can do about it (unless they're in REAL danger). If we think we know better, the best thing we can do is to be the best examples of that as possible.

We used to worry about kids growing up too fast -now we are freaking out about their genders when they barely realize they have a gender -or what it's all about!
 
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dust1n

Zindīq
For the sake of the kid i really hope you are right.

I'm not saying it isn't possible that what is being proposed is 'not possible'. However, there is nothing to suggest the outrageous claims made so far on this woman's intentions, persona and 'agenda list', and yet they were made despite any reasonable indicator in either the blog post or the news clip, which was edited of course, who were the ones who exploited the child if anything, btw.

It's odd how we adore 'innocent until proven guilty' in our legal system but never utilize it our own judgments.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Well, you just seem to be taking it awfully personally. Meh, these things happen on the internet.

Anyway, my "generalizations" are coming from the same place yours are: the article.

What generalizations have I made other than now stating the people in this thread make sweeping generalizations? I haven't pretended to know anything about the situation. I'm more concerned with the claims based on a brief understanding of a small glimpse of a situation whose context it's obviously a lot more complex than a 1000 word story and a few minutes in a news clip.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I didn't notice the other parents making a comment about being gay in the op?

Are you serious?

Then as we got closer to the actual day, he stared to hem and haw about it. After some discussion it comes out that he is afraid people will laugh at him. I pointed out that some people will because it is a cute and clever costume. He insists their laughter would be of the ‘making fun’ kind. I blow it off. Seriously, who would make fun of a child in costume?


And then the big day arrives. We get dressed up. We drop Squirt at his preschool and head over to his. Boo doesn’t want to get out of the car. He’s afraid of what people will say and do to him. I convince him to go inside. He halts at the door. He’s visibly nervous. I chalk it up to him being a bit of a worrier in general. Seriously, WHO WOULD MAKE FUN OF A CHILD IN A COSTUME ON HALLOWEEN? So he walks in. And there were several friends of mine that knew what he was wearing that smiled and waved and gave him high-fives. We walk down the hall to where his classroom is.


And that’s where things went wrong. Two mothers went wide-eyed and made faces as if they smelled decomp. And I realize that my son is seeing the same thing I am. So I say, “Doesn’t he look great?” And Mom A says in disgust, “Did he ask to be that?!” I say that he sure did as Halloween is the time of year that you can be whatever it is that you want to be. They continue with their nosy, probing questions as to how that was an option and didn’t I try to talk him out of it. Mom B mostly just stood there in shock and dismay.


And then Mom C approaches. She had been in the main room, saw us walk in, and followed us down the hall to let me know her thoughts. And they were that I should never have ‘allowed’ this and thank God it wasn’t next year when he was in Kindergarten since I would have had to put my foot down and ‘forbidden’ it. To which I calmly replied that I would do no such thing and couldn’t imagine what she was talking about. She continued on and on about how mean children could be and how he would be ridiculed.


My response to that: The only people that seem to have a problem with it is their mothers.

Let's not kid ourselves here. Why would Lady C think kids would ridicule him for his costume? He is wearing girls clothing. What other than homophobia is this? It's a boy dressing like a girl. There was nothing racy or revealing about it. So what is the REASON it is 'forbidden'?





You ask me about an agenda that I stated was about her addressing her point? Please read the op and posts before responding.

Oh, misread. After post like 100 with like 10 people, it starts to get fuzzy.

She mentioned his concern of being made fun of in the blog.

And this equates to his 'suffering' and 'bad parenting' how?

Maybe it wasn't you who use those terms. Someone did.
 
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