stvdv
Veteran Member
I think Jesus transcended from seeing God outside himself into being aware that God is within [I and My Father are ONE]
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"My God! My God! Why Have You Forsaken Me!"
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Still to appease God, correct? If not, then who was appeased when the human sacrifice of Jesus was accomplished?
stvdv
Veteran Member
God created life. Who are we to kill the life God created and offer that to God. That is so not-logical.
I give you an apple and then you offer the apple to me to appease me. This is foolish. I think the best to appease God is "Hurt Never" and "Love All". Killing to appease God is ....
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Then who did the sacrifice of Jesus appease?
Put another way: from what direction did we face consequences if Jesus were NOT sacrificed?
I found that we need to meditate on Psalm 22, it is very profound and a great Prophecy of that moment.
Regards Tony
stvdv
Veteran Member
They say "Jesus died for our sins"
I say "Jesus died from our sins" [killing him]
Anyway Jesus body was murdered, so maybe a good idea to make a nice story out of it. Because of the story people develop respect and love for Jesus, and this makes that they behave more human. So hopefully when Jesus returns on earth, they won't kill him again. But I am not too sure of that.
People like to believe that "killing of Jesus" absolves their sins. If people believe this, I respect that. I can't proof it true or false. Personally I find it a very easy way, but on the other hand I like spiritual stuff easy.
People somewhere in the middle east killed Jesus. In India they work with the term karma. It can be that the mass killing of Christians in the middle east is still karma. But I don't know. Christians told me that the sin of Adam and Eve is the cause for all the "sh.t" in the world now. So in a way they also believe in karma.
But I don't know anything about this kind of stuff. I read things, but what do I know. Nada. I know one thing. Just be nice to others, that works for me (unless they are not nice to me, then I run, that also works for me, because I can run quite fast).
I actually have a hard time rationally accepting that. If he was "tempted", the only way that could happen is if there was something in him which "fell short of the mark", or "sin". He could not be "like us" if he was not "like us." There would be nothing we could aspire to.
Like Alan Watts said, "They kicked Jesus upstairs." And that to me makes him not a man at all that anyone can relate to. You? Can you relate to that? Prayer, "Jesus show me how you overcame.... sin? Oh, sorry, you're not like us having to do that yourself. I guess I can't relate, since you're unique." The way I see it, they can't have it both ways. He either was like us, or not like us.
Gerhard Ebersoehn
Member
Jesus "was made sin for us", not a sinner for us. No sinner can redeem other sinners, what himself. But only God, and Jesus was God, God who created us, has or IS the Power to let Himself be "made sin for us" to OBLITERATE OUR SIN IN HIMSELF, because He not only has "Power to lay down My Life", but even more, "Power to take up My Life" and "IN HIM", our life "TOGETHER WITH CHRIST".
For no moment became Jesus Christ a sinner, the actor of sin, for that moment alone would have been the repetition of Adam and Eve's FATAL MOMENT. But Jesus became the Subjected under sin, under our sin, which was placed BY US "upon Him" and "made, Him, sin for us", for "us" who ACTED the sin so that GOD The Righteous could declare "US", the "sinners", the murderers of GOD, righteous.
Gerhard Ebersoehn
Member
...by having become The Subjected to.... YOUR sin.
Shadow Link
Active Member
I agree most with the interpretation of this text being that Christ was simply "amazed" by the experience he was enduring — the vicarious suffering for human guilt.
Axe Elf
Prophet
Jesus was like us in that He experienced the world as a man, but He did not sin; He was just made to bear the sin of others at the moment of His death--and it was at that moment that He experienced separation from God for the first time. Being tempted is not itself a sin, and Jesus rejected all temptation to sin. A sin is something that separates one from God, and being tempted is actually something that can bring one closer to God.
I don't have to ask Him how He overcame sin--He overcame sin by bearing it at the moment of His death; not for Himself, but for everyone else who was created for salvation. That means that even though we can't always control ourselves like He did in resisting temptation, we can still enter into the presence of God because He did. There's a great passage in Romans about it.
For I do not understand my own actions [I am baffled, bewildered]. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe [which my moral instinct condemns]. Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it. However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.] For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing. Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts], but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul]. So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands. For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature]. But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh]. O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death? O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. --Romans 7:15-25 (Amplified Bible)
Axe Elf
Prophet
Yeah, that's what I said.
Scott C.
Just one guy
This is a quote from Jeffrey Holland who is an LDS Apostle. It says it better than I did:
... I testify that He did please His Father perfectly and that a perfect Father did not forsake His Son in that hour. Indeed, it is my personal belief that in all of Christ’s mortal ministry the Father may never have been closer to His Son than in these agonizing final moments of suffering. Nevertheless, that the supreme sacrifice of His Son might be as complete as it was voluntary and solitary, the Father briefly withdrew from Jesus the comfort of His Spirit, the support of His personal presence. It was required, indeed it was central to the significance of the Atonement, that this perfect Son who had never spoken ill nor done wrong nor touched an unclean thing had to know how the rest of humankind—us, all of us—would feel when we did commit such sins. For His Atonement to be infinite and eternal, He had to feel what it was like to die not only physically but spiritually, to sense what it was like to have the divine Spirit withdraw, leaving one feeling totally, abjectly, hopelessly alone.
I understand that Jesus was quoting a scripture, but the above describes in what sense the Father withdrew support from his son.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Why would this make any sense? If Jesus was born human, then wouldn't he have already been separated from the spiritual "Father" as are we? When did Jesus discover his divinity; was it taken away at the cross? It seems we struggle through a quagmire when we endow the Divine Center (God, i.e.) with human attributes. Jesus was simply saying the prayer that all Jews may have used when they found themselves is such a hopeless situation as he did on the cross, IMHO.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
He said it because people want to go to heaven but it's the trip that's not so awesome.
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
What does that have to do with betrayal, unless you betrayed yourself?
Gerhard Ebersoehn
Member
Yes no of course, 'our sin, which was placed BY US "upon Him"' is not the whole truth because Jesus took our sin upon Himself, Himself!
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
The only salvation from evil is repentance. Both Jesus and John the Baptist taught that. No person or animal can die for your lack of repentance--it's a pagan idea.
why wouldn't he be saying those words?
I can create an infinite set of answers to why did he say it? Since I can create an infinite set of answers, I might say that's a symptom, not a solution.
Sin as an object is...... normal.