My God Why have you forsaken me

[waitasec]

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:38-40


Clearly the scriptures present Jesus Christ as the Savior and Jesus' own words indicate it is He Himself who saves those who believe in Him.

and how do you know these are jesus' own words?

 

[InChrist]

and how do you know these are jesus' own words?

I know they are Jesus' words because I trust the biblical scriptures to be God's Word preserved intact for communicating truth to humanity.

 

[Thief]

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:38-40


Clearly the scriptures present Jesus Christ as the Savior and Jesus' own words indicate it is He Himself who saves those who believe in Him.

Scapegoating doesn't work.
You will stand alone...as He died alone.
Your last hour is yours....alone.
When it's over...then judgment.

You will be allowed to follow....or stand wherever you fell.

Search the scriptures...indeed.
One of His parables would be sufficient.

 

[Thief]

If His message was the only criteria for my own salvation, then i would have to stand on my own merits, as you.

Fortunately, for all of us, all of our good works merit nothing but as filthy rags, His works on the cross merits all our righteousness as a free gift.

The hardest thing for anyone to want to believe is that salvation is a free gift.

It seems that one should live a supper righteous life in order to merit one's own salvation based on the merssage that Christ gave.

That being the case, none of us, you included would expect to achieve salvation.

Christ's message is one after one's rebirth experience on how to live out that wonderful gift, salvation.

Working it out not before first receiving it. Otherwise, work it in vain.

Blessings, AJ

You're flip-flopping....first one notion as if it counters the other.

Yes we will stand on our own.
You are responsible, and will be held accountable for what you believe.

It would be correct to say....
there are no works of the hand that will justify you before the angels.
God can shame your best effort, with the least of His own.

None the less....
blessed is the servant who is found, doing His Lord's will.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The hardest thing for anyone to want to believe is that salvation is a free gift.

I'm not surprised!
How is it justice if one person strives to please God (sincerely), and is not recognised any more than a person who sincerely believes, but thinks that he's "saved" by doing absolutely nothing? Is God a 'communist' ?

Fortunately, for all of us, all of our good works merit nothing but as filthy rags

I think that you misunderstand ! I agree with you that it's not our deeds that cause us to enter 'heaven' .. without God's mercy, not one of us would enter, as we are all sinners ..
Tthat doesn't mean that our deeds are irrelevant .. there will be a judgement .. it is reported in the NT that Jesus (peace be with him) said as much.

 

[look3467]

It would be correct to say.... there are no works of the hand that will justify you before the angels. God can shame your best effort,with the least of His own.

None the less.... blessed is the servant who is found,doing His Lord's will.

If you mean justified by God. TRUE!
What is not understood is that salvation can only be justified by the grace of God, which He does through Jesus as a free gift.

It can only be as a free gift from God as no fallen man can justify self.

Now, concerning our behaviour, good or bad, it is accounted on to us as a blessing or a curse.

We have the right of judgment.

Salvation wise, God justifies us all by His own righteousness as our own.

That right there is the stumbling block.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Thief]

If you mean justified by God. TRUE!
What is not understood is that salvation can only be justified by the grace of God, which He does through Jesus as a free gift.

It can only be as a free gift from God as no fallen man can justify self.

Now, concerning our behaviour, good or bad, it is accounted on to us as a blessing or a curse.

We have the right of judgment.

Salvation wise, God justifies us all by His own righteousness as our own.

That right there is the stumbling block.

Blessings, AJ

Still flip-flopping. You can't stand on both sides of the line at the same time.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed position in heaven.
Even His own disciples came asking position....they were told...
'you do not understand what you ask....'

Apparently someone sold you a salvation rant...and you bought it.

 

[look3467]

Still flip-flopping. You can't stand on both sides of the line at the same time.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed position in heaven.
Even His own disciples came asking position....they were told...
'you do not understand what you ask....'

Apparently someone sold you a salvation rant...and you bought it.

NO! No flip flopping here just given to understand the state of grace.

You really want to know the reason why that question was asked of Jesus? Really?

If one man Jesus, is responsible of reconciling the world back to the Father, suppose all things under heaven were given unto Him, giving Him full power, authority as God, to perform that task?

If that is true, then all souls regardless of earthly position are in one position only, and that being saved through Christ.

Your reward as a soul is Jesus, and if you should be blessed by knowing Him early in your present life, you would be elevated above all things earthly to where all things earthly become temporal to that which you shall receive after this life is over with.

What we do with Jesus and His message of hope and promise is totally up to you.

Either you will benefit from Him or you will not.

That is a God given choice.

Blessings, AJ

 

[InChrist]

Scapegoating doesn't work.
You will stand alone...as He died alone.
Your last hour is yours....alone.
When it's over...then judgment.

You will be allowed to follow....or stand wherever you fell.

Search the scriptures...indeed.
One of His parables would be sufficient.

[FONT=&quot]I have a Savior and according to the scriptures anyone who belongs to Christ is secure in Him and He will never leave or forsake them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28[/FONT]

 

[look3467]

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467
The hardest thing for anyone to want to believe is that salvation is a free gift.

I'm not surprised!
How is it justice if one person strives to please God (sincerely), and is not recognised any more than a person who sincerely believes, but thinks that he's "saved" by doing absolutely nothing? Is God a 'communist' ?>>>muhammad_isa

First, our striving to please God is purely human and a matter of choice and belief.
Second, salvation is not ours to achieve, but to claim because it has been given us as a free gift.

Now, if in your striving to please God are sincere and honest, God will bless you, but if not, you will receive just recompense by the world and not of God.

Which comes down to reap what you sow.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Thief]

[FONT=&quot]I have a Savior and according to the scriptures anyone who belongs to Christ is secure in Him and He will never leave or forsake them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28[/FONT]

Nice quotes.
Care to qualify the line drawn?

 

[Thief]

First, our striving to please God is purely human and a matter of choice and belief.
Second, salvation is not ours to achieve, but to claim because it has been given us as a free gift.

Now, if in your striving to please God are sincere and honest, God will bless you, but if not, you will receive just recompense by the world and not of God.

Which comes down to reap what you sow.

Blessings, AJ

Still flip-flopping.....
First you you speak of claim...with or without merit....a free gift...
Then consequence....reap what you sow.

You can't seem to draw the line, either way.

 

[InChrist]

Nice quotes.
Care to qualify the line drawn?

What do you mean by qualify the line drawn?

 

[Thief]

What do you mean by qualify the line drawn?

In every gesture or speech a line is drawn.
So far, your words speak of belief, but lack the line drawn.

The Carpenter did say....
'...many will call me Lord...and I know them not....'

He drew a line in that remark.

You would like to stand at His side?.....His side of the line?

You call Him Lord....but do you know His word?

 

[InChrist]

In every gesture or speech a line is drawn.
So far, your words speak of belief, but lack the line drawn.

The Carpenter did say....
'...many will call me Lord...and I know them not....'

He drew a line in that remark.

You would like to stand at His side?.....His side of the line?

You call Him Lord....but do you know His word?

Well, I still don't think you are being very clear, but I do call Jesus Lord and I do know Him and His word, although I realize I have much more to learn and understand from Him. I am thankful I have eternity to be in His presence and keep learning. But the basics of the gospel message are simple enough for a child to understand.

 

[look3467]

Still flip-flopping.....
First you you speak of claim...with or without merit....a free gift...
Then consequence....reap what you sow.

You can't seem to draw the line, either way.

You want a line of which you will not accept an answer, unless it meets your criteria.

Look, the creation was lost due to God's creative process, no fault of ours.

I mean, what have you in your own power to effect anything spiritual?

What you can effect is your decision making, right or wrong, that's is all you and I can do.

Now, as for the spiritual end of it, which involves the Creator, He is the only one who can effect an end to our separation by fixing the problem Himself.

He has already done so in Jesus, believe it....or not. That is your choice.

The wages of sin is death, meaning that at our death we cease to sin, and therefore, past sins are paid in full by our death.

What does not die is our souls because God granted us life by His own righteousness of which we having nothing to do with except to accept it on our free will.

Now, if you don't accept this free gift, you will remain as not having received it until your time expires here. There after your soul belongs to God who purchased it by His Son.

Unless you or anybody else can top the Son's righteousness, we labor in vain trying.

That is what the seventh day rest is all about. To cease(Rest) from your own works and rely on God's works.

When that point arrives, whether active or inactive (Alive or dead) you will cease from your own works and shall live on forever in the righteousness of God in Christ.

The line you seek is only drawn by mankind's thinking because mankind deems it necessary to work, to merit one's own salvation rather than to accept God's salvation as ours.

There is no line in that when Jesus died, He paid the price for all. I mean all, good and evil.

If you find that hard to believe, then you are still a carnal minded person. Meaning thinking and believing only in the existence of the flesh.

Not supporting the ability of the Creator to save His own creation in spite of who or what we are.

What we do with this life can be for good or for evil of which both will end at our death.

As gods, lower case g, we have the power to make up our own minds.

Be it as you wish. I will not think of you any less but as a brother or sister.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

The Carpenter did say....
'...many will call me Lord...and I know them not....>>>Thief

Prior to Christ's death there was a line, either or, because of the nature of the creation.

Jesus was in the old frame and had to quote and live the old in order to fulfill it for us, where we couldn't.

After His death, there was a new creation, of which the old had past away, or better said, Nailed to the cross as an end.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

There is no simpler way of putting it, other than creating a man made illusion as to what it should be.

At that point is where divisions arise.

Blessings, AJ

 

[cablescavenger]

Why did people think Jesus was calling on Elijah when he said My God Why you Forsaken me? What did Jesus really say and why would people have expected Elijah? Perhaps Jesus was also expecting Elijah but felt forsaken. Jesus wouldn't have been forsaken by God, I would have figured that Jesus could have saved himself at any time. In what way was Jesus forsaken?

imo it was written by someone who had not given the subplots the attention they deserved.

P.S. there are a few people here writing in the definitive. Should this be in a Christianity DIR?

 

[Thief]

You want a line of which you will not accept an answer, unless it meets your criteria.

Look, the creation was lost due to God's creative process, no fault of ours.

I mean, what have you in your own power to effect anything spiritual?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
This puts to you how you will be dealt with...later on.

The wages of sin is death, meaning that at our death we cease to sin, and therefore, past sins are paid in full by our death.

So there is a line drawn?

What does not die is our souls because God granted us life by His own righteousness of which we having nothing to do with except to accept it on our free will.

Is it not written?....do not die the second death...
Worry not the harm to your flesh...fear instead He who can rend the soul

Unless you or anybody else can top the Son's righteousness, we labor in vain trying.

And the Carpenter said....
'...do not call Me good...no one is good but the Father.....'

Be it as you wish. I will not think of you any less but as a brother or sister.

Blessings, AJ

Only your last line rings true....
Of Himself, the Carpenter did say....'brother and fellow servant'.

The rest of your lengthy post I have answered as I could.
If you could be more concise...this would be easier.

Beyond that...you assume too much what I think and believe.

 

[Thief]

imo it was written by someone who had not given the subplots the attention they deserved.

P.S. there are a few people here writing in the definitive. Should this be in a Christianity DIR?[/quote]

Interesting note.

But how does one debate...without attempting to drawn a line?
Isn't the purpose of debate....to discuss and determine the topic at hand?

I suppose I could express the topic content in the form of question.
But the concept would remain the same.

What do you think?
When the Carpenter did ask...'why have you forsaken Me?'

Was there an answer?...I think not.
There was no response.
His last hour was His own....as it will be with each one of us.

Not sure why your post appears as it does...hope that's not confusing.