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My new meta-debate hammer, anti-dogmatism

Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
mikkel_the_dane said:
Another feeling.
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Is that your way of weeding out the bad ones hoping they insult you so they can get a warning and then get banned from the site? Is that your cute little way? Like many others on here with their cute snide remarks hahahaahaha
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Moon said:
Is that your way of weeding out the bad ones hoping they insult you so they can get a warning and then get banned from the site? Is that your cute little way? Like many others on here with their cute snide remarks hahahaahaha
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Well, you use thinking and feeling. I just do it differently in some cases. The point is that you are not all humans. Neither am I. So if you want to compromise we can try to do that. If you want to be right, I will just be wrong and point out that I can still do it differently. That is all.
 
icehorse

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
Well, if you can solve Agrippa's Trilemma, we would get a long way on good and bad.
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That's one reason why I think we all have to admit to a few axioms. Otherwise I agree, any conversation can be run into the ground.
 
icehorse

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
George-ananda said:
I think the word 'Scientism' was coined for a way to describe a dogmatic position that holds science to be the only or best way of learning about objective reality. I do vigilantly call out that type of dogmatism when I see it.
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Can you give examples of other ways to learn, that don't amount to magical thinking?

Let me give you a few examples of things that science cannot explain yet, but for which science is making progress:

- learning to walk
- having an intuition or a gut reaction
- appreciating art or nature

And so on..
 
icehorse

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
Yes, you think that. Now here is a page of how it might not be possible.
We can go through the reasons behind it:

Cognitive Relativism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

iep.utm.edu iep.utm.edu
And the objections to it too.
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Good article, thanks.

And I think we can deal with cognitive relativism, again, with a few agreed upon axioms.

The reality is that most of us - certainly all of us on RF - live major parts of our lives tacitly agreeing to logic and critical thinking. I know this because without those mostly-objective facts and claims, we couldn't do math or engineering or create an internet.
 
RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
icehorse said:
Call me reductionist if you will, but I'm seeing a common thread across many ideas or opinions or behaviors with which I disagree. The common thread I'm seeing is dogmatism. For years my RF avatar read "anti-theist". That's still true for me, but I think a broader perspective is "anti-dogmatist".

There's a blindingly obvious truism that I first heard from Sam Harris. (AFAIK he does NOT claim to be the creator of this truism.):

"Humans have come up with two basic ways to settle disputes; talking it out, or violence."

As a general rule, when a person is behaving dogmatically, they are shutting down the possibility of "talking it out". So I'll claim that dogmatism often leads to violence.

And I see dogmatism coming from all corners of social, political, religious spectrums. The DEI folks are often dogmatic. The MAGA types as well. Religious people almost by definition.

With all that said, I also acknowledge that I think we need a few unfalsifiable, philosophical axioms to have any sort of discussion at all. I acknowledge I have mine. But I'm willing to admit to these axioms and I'm willing to revise them if I see good evidence.

So, long story short, I think we should all call out the dogmatists wherever and whenever we see them :)
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Do you consider yourself personally immune? Seems to me you are exhibiting quite strong opinions here, about how others should think and behave. Which smacks a little of, well, you know...
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
icehorse said:
Good article, thanks.

And I think we can deal with cognitive relativism, again, with a few agreed upon axioms.

The reality is that most of us - certainly all of us on RF - live major parts of our lives tacitly agreeing to logic and critical thinking. I know this because without those mostly-objective facts and claims, we couldn't do math or engineering or create an internet.
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Well, yes. But that is objective. The problem is that subjectivity is different, because good and bad changes with different axioms and there is no objective standard to test them against.
I get what you are trying to do. The problem is that when I look at the social world I can't observe an universal we. It is always us and them and your axioms will also be us and them.
There is your test: Explain based on your axioms, how you are going to treat them and not us.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
mikkel_the_dane said:
Well, I am certain that is complex and I am not the source of deciding how to do abortion. So I try to compromise. But I know even that has a limit and I am also certain of that.
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I’m against abortion but am pro choice. Case closed. No uncertainty here.
 
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