My new meta-debate hammer, anti-dogmatism

[Jimmy]

Well, I am going to fight you over that, because then we can't have a society and a society requires some sort of common ground. That is even more complex than that. So something did come next.

Nothing comes next? Maybe someone who wants an abortion will have to move to another state now. Who knows

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Nothing comes next? Maybe someone who wants an abortion will have to move to another state now. Who knows

We are in general debates. This is not about the USA. Keep that out of it and start a thread in North American politics. Now where you are on the forum and read this again if you have to.

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Just the top statement.

 

[Jimmy]

We are in general debates. This is not about the USA. Keep that out of it and start a thread in North American politics. Now where you are on the forum and read this again if you have to.

RF Rules

RF MISSION STATEMENT As a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another. POLICIES...

www.religiousforums.com

Just the top statement.

I can talk about abortion here

 

[Jimmy]

Nothing comes next? Maybe someone who wants an abortion will have to move to another state now. Who knows

Yeah the common ground is you mind your own business and I’ll mind mine.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I can talk about abortion here

Yes, but the USA is not the only culture in the world, so why make it about the states. Remember where you are on the forum. You are in general debates right now.

 

[Jimmy]

Yes, but the USA is not the only culture in the world, so why make it about the states. Remember where you are on the forum. You are in general debates right now.

Get over it

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yeah the common ground is you mind your own business and I’ll mind mine.

Yes, then we can't even trade. You live as you and stop engaging with other humans. Buy a piece of land with out taxes on it and live for yourself. Otherwise you have to engage. You are doing it right on as you are in debates and engaging me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Get over it

How non-engaging and minding your own business. Other states and other people are not you.

 

[Jimmy]

Yes, then we can't even trade. You live as you and stop engaging with other humans. Buy a piece of land with out taxes on it and live for yourself. Otherwise you have to engage. You are doing it right on as you are in debates and engaging me.

I’ll never meet you haha. So what u want everyone to think alike? It’s a fruitless endeavor

 

[icehorse]

Do you consider yourself personally immune? Seems to me you are exhibiting quite strong opinions here, about how others should think and behave. Which smacks a little of, well, you know...

I admit to my axioms, and I'm happy to discuss how I might need to improve them.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I’ll never meet you haha. So what u want everyone to think alike? It’s a fruitless endeavor

You have met me. You are doing it now. We are meeting on the Internet. And I don't want us to think alike. I want us to agree on being different individuals with a common set of rules.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I admit to my axioms, and I'm happy to discuss how I might need to improve them.

Then let us try. The first hurdle is if they are too vague.

 

[Jimmy]

You have met me. You are doing it now. We are meeting on the Internet. And I don't want us to think alike. I want us to agree on being different individuals with a common set of rules.

Cool. Then this conversation was a waste of my time

 

[George-ananda]

Can you give examples of other ways to learn, that don't amount to magical thinking?

How about true psychic clairvoyance, mysticism, spiritual communication, etcetera. (Unless one dogmatically believes these things are not real experiences).

 

[Jimmy]

You have met me. You are doing it now. We are meeting on the Internet. And I don't want us to think alike. I want us to agree on being different individuals with a common set of rules.

No we are not meeting.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Cool. Then this conversation was a waste of my time

Good, you are honest. That is a start.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No we are not meeting.

So how come you can answer me?

 

[icehorse]

Well, yes. But that is objective. The problem is that subjectivity is different, because good and bad changes with different axioms and there is no objective standard to test them against.
I get what you are trying to do. The problem is that when I look at the social world I can't observe an universal we. It is always us and them and your axioms will also be us and them.
There is your test: Explain based on your axioms, how you are going to treat them and not us.

You're asking me to defend claims I'm not making. At least not in this thread

I'm not saying that eliminating dogmatism would end disagreements - far from it. What I'm saying is that when the inevitable disagreements crop up, the chances of peaceful resolution go way up if the disagrees are not dogmatic. The lack of dogmatism allows more opportunity for discussion

 

[Jimmy]

Good, you are honest. That is a start.

Wow your whole conversation on peoples authority has been pointless.

 

[icehorse]

How about true psychic clairvoyance, mysticism, spiritual communication, etcetera. (Unless one dogmatically believes these things are not real experiences).

I think some of these things are "real" and some are not. MOST of what humans can do, they cannot - yet - explain how they do.

A couple of thoughts:

- take your list and examine each item in isolation. some might be true, others not.
- for each item, ask yourself how reliable or repeatable the ability is. if an ability has a low repeatability rate, it's hard to claim that it's actually an ability.

My older daughter does tarot readings. My more scientific explanation for her ability is that she's VERY empathetic and can read people very well. The tarot cards are a vehicle for her to express that which she cannot otherwise explain.

But to reiterate: scientists who study skill acquisition, performance, expertise and so on, acknowledge that skills and abilities most frequently are NOT explainable. We can ask a gymnast how they do a floor exercise. They will not be able to explain it, but the skill is real and repeatable.