My one-way ticket to hell

[gnostic]

It would seem that I have been sliced, quartered and even diced, before receiving my one-way ticket to hell.

I don't know how many people in RF who have visited my website, Dark Mirrors of Heaven. It was meant to provide information about the non-canonical texts in relation to the Genesis, particularly in regarding to the Creation (which included Adam and Eve) and Enoch. Texts that I have used included the Haggada, Book of Jubilees, books of Enoch, Apocryphon of John (Gnostic), and others.

It was to provide different perspective, of the way ancient people thought of their religions, and how they change over time. It was never meant to displace the bible, and it was certainly not meant to be anti-Christian or anti-Jew or "anti-" anything. It was just mostly summaries of these legends, myths or whatever you would like to call them.

Afterall, not as many Christians in the Western world would know about Lilith, or Enoch's adventures and so forth. Not many read Gnostic texts as well. Also the bible is well known, whereas these texts are not readily available. Thus I was sharing knowledge. It wasn't mean to preach to follow these texts, and being agnostic, I have no desire to convert anyone or turn away from their respective religions.

Well, recently I got emails from one member, whom I won't name. Unless this person don't mind me showing the entire whole emails (including mine) out in the open. It doesn't bother me, one way or another if everyone else read them.

Anyway, the person's email, titled "What do I get out of it?"

Obviously it is question my motive for putting up such site. To this person, only the Bible mattered, and people becoming Christians. How I should concentrate only on the bible and my own salvation, and ignore these texts.

It would seem this person didn't like me pointing out that books such as the book of Enoch and book of Julibees were written before Jesus and his followers' time, and they were influenced by them. I have pointed out Jude's epistle alluding to prophecies from Enoch, which obvious referred to one of the books of Enoch. Also Enoch have been called "Son of Man", a popular epithet, which gospel writers have used and called Jesus.

Then the person began a long reply that I should be honest with myself and accept Jesus, becoming a Christian, as well as the consequence of not accepting Jesus - sins and hell. How I must do so with humility? Obviously he or she wants me to become a Christian.

I can understand this, about humility, but I warned the person that talk of sins, judgement and hell doesn't impress me; in fact, it disgust me. It is what I find Christianity so disgusting. I have people in the past telling me that I would go hell, if I don't convert.

Dark Ages and medieval period, priests have used fear on people to convert, and it is disgusting practice. I told the person that such method don't work with me, and if he or she don't want to talk about my website, then I have no interest in his or her letter if it meant trying to convert me.

I told the person that humility have very little to do with faith or belief. I probably should have explain further, because that only added fuel the person's fire.

Then the person lecture me that I don't have humility to be saved and so forth, and how I would go to hell. Already, the person judge that I would go to hell, and the only salvation is through Christ. Again, trying to put fear in me to convert. The tone of this reply hardly sounded humble. It's sure doesn't show compassion or understanding.

And being the person I am, I told the person that his email didn't sound humble at all. Well, here is the last reply.

Since you could not show lack of humility or arrogance and only accuse
vaguely, realize you do this from your selfish center. See how we are
different. If I say you are lacking humility I then to proceed to show
it. For example, you are not being humble by merely accusing, thus
pointing to yourself as the center which is arrogant behavior to say
the least.

The humility God deems necessary to come to the cross is already an
accomplished fact in my life for I accepted Jesus as my substitute
forgiving all my sins and I have died with Him on the cross to put
away things of the flesh.

You can't say the same because you are still operating out of self and
Christ is not your center. You have your religious idea and really you
are on your own with a foretaste of hell even now.

You can be arrogant all the way to hell and remain separated from God
forever. You can see how vital hell becomes to keep you eternally
separated from God's children. He loves us so much He does this. Just
like we put criminals in jail to protect the people.

Just know you can still be saved. Nobody is stopping you from this but
you. You are your own worse enemy.

His God had not yet judge me yet...if he does exist. Jesus have not judge me yet. But it doesn't matter, since the person have already judge me, and have already booked me a place in hell.

I admired Jesus' teaching of love and compassionate, but I sure don't love his Christians, especially those who are ready to judge me, without even knowing me.

If being Christian meant sharing a place in heaven with people such as these, then I'd prefer to stay out of heaven and go my own way, whichever way that may be.

 

[gnostic]

Sorry for the long, boring topic.

As I said, I am willing to post all our communications (emails) to each other, if the person think I've been unfair.

 

[yuvgotmel]

Love the site. You did a great job--very clean. Thanx for the link.

 

[Quagmire]

I think alot of christians are a little leary of the pseudepigraphal texts.

If you use them as a bridge between the old and new testements you can see how the non-canocal writings helped shape christian thought, theology, and tradition.

I think literalists see this as something of an embarrasment.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It would seem that I have been sliced, quartered and even diced, before receiving my one-way ticket to hell.

I don't know how many people in RF who have visited my website, Dark Mirrors of Heaven. It was meant to provide information about the non-canonical texts in relation to the Genesis, particularly in regarding to the Creation (which included Adam and Eve) and Enoch. Texts that I have used included the Haggada, Book of Jubilees, books of Enoch, Apocryphon of John (Gnostic), and others.

It was to provide different perspective, of the way ancient people thought of their religions, and how they change over time. It was never meant to displace the bible, and it was certainly not meant to be anti-Christian or anti-Jew or "anti-" anything. It was just mostly summaries of these legends, myths or whatever you would like to call them.

Afterall, not as many Christians in the Western world would know about Lilith, or Enoch's adventures and so forth. Not many read Gnostic texts as well. Also the bible is well known, whereas these texts are not readily available. Thus I was sharing knowledge. It wasn't mean to preach to follow these texts, and being agnostic, I have no desire to convert anyone or turn away from their respective religions.

Well, recently I got emails from one member, whom I won't name. Unless this person don't mind me showing the entire whole emails (including mine) out in the open. It doesn't bother me, one way or another if everyone else read them.

Anyway, the person's email, titled "What do I get out of it?"

Obviously it is question my motive for putting up such site. To this person, only the Bible mattered, and people becoming Christians. How I should concentrate only on the bible and my own salvation, and ignore these texts.

It would seem this person didn't like me pointing out that books such as the book of Enoch and book of Julibees were written before Jesus and his followers' time, and they were influenced by them. I have pointed out Jude's epistle alluding to prophecies from Enoch, which obvious referred to one of the books of Enoch. Also Enoch have been called "Son of Man", a popular epithet, which gospel writers have used and called Jesus.

Then the person began a long reply that I should be honest with myself and accept Jesus, becoming a Christian, as well as the consequence of not accepting Jesus - sins and hell. How I must do so with humility? Obviously he or she wants me to become a Christian.

I can understand this, about humility, but I warned the person that talk of sins, judgement and hell doesn't impress me; in fact, it disgust me. It is what I find Christianity so disgusting. I have people in the past telling me that I would go hell, if I don't convert.

Dark Ages and medieval period, priests have used fear on people to convert, and it is disgusting practice. I told the person that such method don't work with me, and if he or she don't want to talk about my website, then I have no interest in his or her letter if it meant trying to convert me.

I told the person that humility have very little to do with faith or belief. I probably should have explain further, because that only added fuel the person's fire.

Then the person lecture me that I don't have humility to be saved and so forth, and how I would go to hell. Already, the person judge that I would go to hell, and the only salvation is through Christ. Again, trying to put fear in me to convert. The tone of this reply hardly sounded humble. It's sure doesn't show compassion or understanding.

And being the person I am, I told the person that his email didn't sound humble at all. Well, here is the last reply.

His God had not yet judge me yet...if he does exist. Jesus have not judge me yet. But it doesn't matter, since the person have already judge me, and have already booked me a place in hell.

I admired Jesus' teaching of love and compassionate, but I sure don't love his Christians, especially those who are ready to judge me, without even knowing me.

If being Christian meant sharing a place in heaven with people such as these, then I'd prefer to stay out of heaven and go my own way, whichever that may be.

I guess I'll see you there. I'll start the BBQ, and you can bring the chips and dip.



This person that replied to you is committed to his or her interpretation of scripture, and there's not much one can debate with there. Let's face it, you can't have any kind of open discussion with someone who is so convinced they have all the truths they need in this world. To them, their position is an open-and-shut case.



Don't let it get to you. In fact, we have some pretty cool folks on this very site who hold such beliefs, and I'd like to simply enjoy them for their good qualities rather than let our differences get in the way. It's what I'd want from them.



Peace,
Mystic

 

[michel]

I think alot of christians are a little leary of the pseudepigraphal texts.

If you use them as a bridge between the old and new testements you can see how the non-canocal writings helped shape christian thought, theology, and tradition.

I think literalists see this as something of an embarrasment.

I agree; it is far too easy to offend those who are easily offended.

 

[James the Persian]

I think alot of christians are a little leary of the pseudepigraphal texts.

If you use them as a bridge between the old and new testements you can see how the non-canocal writings helped shape christian thought, theology, and tradition.

I think literalists see this as something of an embarrasment.

You have the wrong word there. Pseudepigraphical merely means that the text isn't written by the person claimed as the author - Christians accept loads of those even if they don't realise it. As for apocryphal texts (which is probably what you meant, though you may also have intended to include the Deuterocanonicals), there are plenty of Christians who have read them. I'm one. I don't agree with them all but that doesn't mean they are valueless. Of course, if you come from a Tradition such as mine which has an altogether less rigid view of just what it means for a text to be canonical (a correct view, as opposed to the later Protestant idea) and especially if you have an understanding of the history of the development of the canons (there has never been a single canon) then it does make things easier. Strict literalists, Biblical inerrantists and sola scripturalists, which are the sort of people who are most likely to be threatened by such texts are a tiny minority of Christians being, almost invariably, from a Protestant tradition. Those of us who are part of one of the near 1.5 billion strong group of Christians whose churches pre-date the Reformation, don't hold to such unsustainable notions of Scripture.

James

 

[Reverend Rick]

Gnostic, not every Christian feels that way about you. I am a former Pagan and yes, I have heard of Lilith. I love reading ancient texts and will have to check out your website. If the e-mails persist may I suggest you referring your judgemental tormentor to his scriptures.

Matthew 7: 1,2
DO NOT judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

>[O]ne-way ticket to hell

Briefly stated, in the Baha'i view, there is no such thing!

The Baha'i scriptures assure us that God, in His infinite Love and Mercy, assists even those in the worst sort of hell (which, BTW, is defined as spiritual separation from Him) to heal and grow closer to HIm so that they eventually achieve Heaven (spiritual nearness to Him)!

Best,

Bruce

 

[gnostic]

I would have preferred to talk about the website, even if the person don't like it.

I don't object people not believing these texts, because I don't believe them, like the part about Lilith, for example, but I do find such story to be very interesting. It's what I call a good story.

It is the persistence of calling me to convert to Christianity, and the person using the same method of the Dark Ages - the fear of hell - that doesn't impress me. I have a couple of people telling me that I would go to hell if I didn't convert, when I was in my late teen.

This method didn't make Christianity attractive to me back then; it certainly doesn't attact me to Christianity right now with someone telling me to convert. Not long after these encouters, I lost all interests in religion and didn't touch the bible in years.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

His God had not yet judge me yet... Jesus have not judge me yet.

Scripture says in John Chapter three that those who believe are not condemned but those that believe not are condemned already because they have believed in the name of the only begotton son of God.

 

[kateyes]

gnostic--

I believe my signture sums it up for me--first thank you for sharing your site--thank you for putting so many things together in one easy to find area. Not all Christians are hide-bound idiots(trying to hide thier heads in the sand). Many of us do question a variety of things and do not find your web-site a threat to our beliefs. Please don't let the ramblings of one person get to you. Sad to say alot of us are supposed to be on the same train.

 

[zombieharlot]

First of all, gnostic, I want to say that I feel the same way you do in a lot of ways. I will say, though, that I've known a lot of great Christian people in my short time on Earth. Just because the mass majority misrepresents (IMHO) the religion, that doesn't mean there aren't people who do otherwise.

As a side note, perhaps, the story of Lilith is actually one of my favorites. My user title actually comes from that particular myth. Lilin are the name of the children born of her by Samael. However, the name held more meaning to me as I understood that Lilin were slayed by God every day as punishment for her straying from Adam. But my recent understanding of it is that God slays the children she bore from Adam. Perhaps even children from both sides are slain. I'm not sure now, but it's definately something I'd enjoy learning more about.

 

[kiwimac]

From a Zoroastrian perspective, hell is self-chosen and educative. All folk will come out of the hells they have made for themselves into the light of God. Certainly we would not accept that mere posting of a different POV makes you condemned for eternity.

 

[kiwimac]

Oh and BTW, Jude in the NT also quotes from the book the Assumption of Moses.

 

[love]

With all the attrocities committed in the name of "God" I hope your ticket (if you are in a hurry) is not on standby.There is evil that exist in this world. It will be crushed. I doubt if you sins (God only knows) will land you in eternal damnation.

 

[Mister_T]

Like MysticSang'ha said: Tell them you've always enjoyed a good barbeque. That's what I do.

 

[Mister_T]

Scripture says in John Chapter three that those who believe are not condemned but those that believe not are condemned already because they have believed in the name of the only begotton son of God.

And then there's always that verse from Matthew where Jesus warns about judging others. But some how the fundamentalists always manage to overlook that one.

 

[love]

I'm not sure how I perceive heaven and hell. But I am sure I would rather be the least in heaven as opposed to the master of hell. I want to be in the presence of light and life. Not in the presence of death and darkness.

 

[PeaceSeeker]

I'm not sure how I perceive heaven.

There is a book that beautifully describes God and the government of God...Heaven. See http://urantia.us