My thoughts on Covid Vaccine

[exchemist]

Hello Deeje.
If?...... Coronavirus is mutating, has mutated, and a new strain is gaining ground in South England as we speak with 1000 known infections (BBC News this morning) but our researchers haven't stopped work, nor will be. It's the nature of the virus, to mutate, that's evolution for you. (oops!)


Hang on...... who told you that Covid can kill or put-down a high % of its victims?
Or..... who told you that there could be a mass adverse reaction to the vaccine? So you are trusting in the words of some people, Deeje, but not dedicated medical researchers? That's your choice.

We (wife and self) both had the Flu Vaccine a month ago. I had no reaction at all. But my wife who has a history of 'some reaction' to vaccinations had a puffy upper arm for three days, and this is an adverse reaction. Some journalists keen for a story would have described my wife as having a severe shock reaction ...... I trust our medics more than journalists for sure.


That's a strange pov imo. I am 70+ and offered to be a guinea pig for Oxford Uni's research team about three months ago, but so many oldies came forward that I was not selected. We don't think quite the same as you about our researchers, it seems.


That's your opinion, Deeje. Who told you the vaccine was tested for only two weeks? The vaccination might save our communities in the opinions of most Brits.

I was saved THREE WEEKS ago out of the blue by my GP, and a doctor surgeon and his team after a routine blood test! No trust? Deeje!
I was tested on a Monday, Lab technicians noted that my GFR (don't ask) had dropped from 70 -25 in two months. Circa 15 is kidney failure. ( @exchemist will know) I got a phonecall at 4pm on the Wednesday telling me to get to K&C Hospital emergency care entrance at 9am Thursday. They knocked me out and operated on me at 11am. Bladder-Kidney stents. I was home by Friday evening. But if you think that all medics are evil maybe you wouldn't have responded, had it been you? I just trust our NHS, Deeje, and Our research chemists, I guess.

I didn't know that one and had to look it up: (estimated) Glomerular Filtration Rate. It's a measure of kidney function. Sounds like you had a close call.

And you know what? They would have had a supply of blood, tested to be compatible with yours, on standby, just in case anything went a bit pear-shaped during the operation and you suffered significant blood loss.

 

[Deeje]

Hello Deeje.
If?...... Coronavirus is mutating, has mutated, and a new strain is gaining ground in South England as we speak with 1000 known infections (BBC News this morning) but our researchers haven't stopped work, nor will be. It's the nature of the virus, to mutate, that's evolution for you. (oops!)

Its adaptation actually.....I don't consider that to be evolution in the context that science uses it.
All organisms have the capacity to adapt...its a survival mechanism. Adaptation can produce new varieties of creatures within a single taxonomic family, but evolution teaches that all life sprang from an amoeba that spontaneously popped into existence one day for no apparent reason, and came fully equipped to become a variety of dinosaurs a few million years down the track.....sorry, I don't buy that.

Hang on...... who told you that Covid can kill or put-down a high % of its victims?
Or..... who told you that there could be a mass adverse reaction to the vaccine? So you are trusting in the words of some people, Deeje, but not dedicated medical researchers? That's your choice.

No, I am going by past track records......all kinds of flu can kill you, but so can vaccinations. I nearly lost my Mum to a pneumonia vax a few years ago...found her on the floor and it was touch and go there for a while. She was told never to have it again.

We (wife and self) both had the Flu Vaccine a month ago. I had no reaction at all. But my wife who has a history of 'some reaction' to vaccinations had a puffy upper arm for three days, and this is an adverse reaction. Some journalists keen for a story would have described my wife as having a severe shock reaction ...... I trust our medics more than journalists for sure.

I don't trust anything that has money as its motivator. Scientists are just as corruptible as anyone else. The "love of money" is a powerful corrupter.

That's a strange pov imo. I am 70+ and offered to be a guinea pig for Oxford Uni's research team about three months ago, but so many oldies came forward that I was not selected. We don't think quite the same as you about our researchers, it seems.

Apparently not...I am the same vintage as you, and will not be having the covid vax any time soon.

That's your opinion, Deeje. Who told you the vaccine was tested for only two weeks? The vaccination might save our communities in the opinions of most Brits.

It was a figure of speech OB. If vaccinations are going to save lives, then they need to be thoroughly tested, not rushed through and just hope for the best. You guys have had it so much worse than us, so I can afford to wait. It pays to live on an island it seems. But just don't let the OS visitors in.

I was saved THREE WEEKS ago out of the blue by my GP, and a doctor surgeon and his team after a routine blood test! No trust? Deeje!
I was tested on a Monday, Lab technicians noted that my GFR (don't ask) had dropped from 70 -25 in two months. Circa 15 is kidney failure. ( @exchemist will know) I got a phonecall at 4pm on the Wednesday telling me to get to K&C Hospital emergency care entrance at 9am Thursday. They knocked me out and operated on me at 11am. Bladder-Kidney stents. I was home by Friday evening. But if you think that all medics are evil maybe you wouldn't have responded, had it been you? I just trust our NHS, Deeje, and Our research chemists, I guess.

I am glad to hear that they caught it in time OB, but I am not anti-medical per se....I know that many doctors do their best in a system that has them hog tied when it comes to a choice of treatments...... I am just 'anti' anything that smacks of big pharma backed deception. They are not in the business of cures, just symptom management so that they can keep you on their drugs for the rest of your miserable life, convinced that you cant live without them....the truth is, they can't live without your money......mansions and flash cars to maintain you know...

Look at what they did to cannabis! Demonized it for decades deceiving the medical profession and the politicians and law makers into banning it as a dangerous 'schedule one' drug.....what a bunch of big fat lies. They took it away because it had amazing medicinal properties that would have competed with their 'patent' medicines. That is how evil these people are...so trust them you say? Not a chance.

 

[oldbadger]

I didn't know that one and had to look it up: (estimated) Glomerular Filtration Rate. It's a measure of kidney function. Sounds like you had a close call.

And you know what? They would have had a supply of blood, tested to be compatible with yours, on standby, just in case anything went a bit pear-shaped during the operation and you suffered significant blood loss.

Thank you for that.
I can and do acknowledge the worries of folks in other lands about their medical services or their mistrust of people around them, but I cannot join in with that.

I totally respect both our NHS and our medical researchers. In 2014 my wife was wracked with the most dreadful abdominal pains. A 111 operator raised my call to 999, a paramedic decided not to send her to A&E but to Clinical Decisions at another hospital, a young CD doctor saw the info gleaned and remembered a paper about tumours on adrenalin glands sending them in to adrenal spasms, ( Phaeo Chromo Cytoma) a 5/million %..... Scans proved him right and she was shunted to Kings College Hospital directly, where the Pheo team operated, and then Critical Care for a week, then intensive, then two weeks nursing, then home.

You know that such treatment would have cost a house, a bloody house in charges, and yet we didn't have to pay a penny, in fact my wife got sick pay through the whole time of her illness.

So when folks tell me that our system is full of sharks and rogues I just cannot accept that.

 

[oldbadger]

Its adaptation actually.....I don't consider that to be evolution in the context that science uses it.
All organisms have the capacity to adapt...its a survival mechanism. Adaptation can produce new varieties of creatures within a single taxonomic family, but evolution teaches that all life sprang from an amoeba that spontaneously popped into existence one day for no apparent reason, and came fully equipped to become a variety of dinosaurs a few million years down the track.....sorry, I don't buy that.

No, I am going by past track records......all kinds of flu can kill you, but so can vaccinations. I nearly lost my Mum to a pneumonia vax a few years ago...found her on the floor and it was touch and go there for a while. She was told never to have it again.

I don't trust anything that has money as its motivator. Scientists are just as corruptible as anyone else. The "love of money" is a powerful corrupter.

Apparently not...I am the same vintage as you, and will not be having the covid vax any time soon.

It was a figure of speech OB. If vaccinations are going to save lives, then they need to be thoroughly tested, not rushed through and just hope for the best. You guys have had it so much worse than us, so I can afford to wait. It pays to live on an island it seems. But just don't let the OS visitors in.

I am glad to hear that they caught it in time OB, but I am not anti-medical per se....I know that many doctors do their best in a system that has them hog tied when it comes to a choice of treatments...... I am just 'anti' anything that smacks of big pharma backed deception. They are not in the business of cures, just symptom management so that they can keep you on their drugs for the rest of your miserable life, convinced that you cant live without them....the truth is, they can't live without your money......mansions and flash cars to maintain you know...

I can acknowledge your opinion, Deeje, but I'm not joining you within it.
Our doctors do have big homes and nice cars..... yes. They spent several years of their lives studying like mad to qualify as 'newbie medics' and then the real work started.
A friend of mine has not got a single qualification, nothing, didn't have that ability, but he's big, so big that he can lay a motorway kerb stone single handed. He has a very big house and a garage full of classic cars.
Deeje.... we all have abilities, and disabilities....... using these to get through life is not a badness, imo.

Look at what they did to cannabis! Demonized it for decades deceiving the medical profession and the politicians and law makers into banning it as a dangerous 'schedule one' drug.....what a bunch of big fat lies. They took it away because it had amazing medicinal properties that would have competed with their 'patent' medicines. That is how evil these people are...so trust them you say? Not a chance.

They..... who are 'they'?
Which whole bunch of people did you have in mind about 'they'?
Personally I think that cannabis should be removed from the restricted and banned list, with shops allowed to sell it and suitable taxation imposed, so the our police can stop mucking about with it and alter focus..... but that's another debate entirely.

 

[exchemist]

Thank you for that.
I can and do acknowledge the worries of folks in other lands about their medical services or their mistrust of people around them, but I cannot join in with that.

I totally respect both our NHS and our medical researchers. In 2014 my wife was wracked with the most dreadful abdominal pains. A 111 operator raised my call to 999, a paramedic decided not to send her to A&E but to Clinical Decisions at another hospital, a young CD doctor saw the info gleaned and remembered a paper about tumours on adrenalin glands sending them in to adrenal spasms, ( Phaeo Chromo Cytoma) a 5/million %..... Scans proved him right and she was shunted to Kings College Hospital directly, where the Pheo team operated, and then Critical Care for a week, then intensive, then two weeks nursing, then home.

You know that such treatment would have cost a house, a bloody house in charges, and yet we didn't have to pay a penny, in fact my wife got sick pay through the whole time of her illness.

So when folks tell me that our system is full of sharks and rogues I just cannot accept that.

Yeah the acute medicine is pretty good, generally, even if the hospitals seem a bit ramshackle compared to some countries.

On your discussion about motives in the health system, one big advantage of a state-funded system is that the doctors have no incentive to send you off for doubtful extra procedures or treatments, and the central procurement system can drive a hard bargain on things like drug prices with Big Pharma.

Doctors can do well in the end: my bro is a consultant neurologist and lives well, due to the private practice he runs, as most consultants do, alongside his NHS work. That's the deal: they value working in the NHS for the experience they get from the volume of patients, plus the ability to keep up with the latest developments, and then they make extra money from private practice. If they couldn't do that they would exit the profession or emigrate, as they are all able people. My bro has Arab sheikhs among his patients and flies off to the Middle East to see them occasionally!

But he paid his dues at the start of his career: 6 years to qualify, then years as a junior doctor, in various hospitals around London, working appalling hours, plus doing research and publishing it in order to get the credentials to be a consultant.

 

[oldbadger]

Yeah the acute medicine is pretty good, generally, even if the hospitals seem a bit ramshackle compared to some countries.

On your discussion about motives in the health system, one big advantage of a state-funded system is that the doctors have no incentive to send you off for doubtful extra procedures or treatments, and the central procurement system can drive a hard bargain on things like drug prices with Big Pharma.

Doctors can do well in the end: my bro is a consultant neurologist and lives well, due to the private practice he runs, as most consultants do, alongside his NHS work. That's the deal: they value working in the NHS for the experience they get from the volume of patients, plus the ability to keep up with the latest developments, and then they make extra money from private practice. If they couldn't do that they would exit the profession or emigrate, as they are all able people. My bro has Arab sheikhs among his patients and flies off to the Middle East to see them occasionally!

But he paid his dues at the start of his career: 6 years to qualify, then years as a junior doctor, in various hospitals around London, working appalling hours, plus doing research and publishing it in order to get the credentials to be a consultant.

Our system just works, imo.... and my wife and self have benefitted so hugely on so many occasions, from a free service with such strong after treatment care.
As for Covid vaccines (you know that) I voted No to the question about any kind of enforcement, but I think that folks calling out about how wicked pharma is. .. that I could not support at all.

 

[Deeje]

I can acknowledge your opinion, Deeje, but I'm not joining you within it.
Our doctors do have big homes and nice cars..... yes. They spent several years of their lives studying like mad to qualify as 'newbie medics' and then the real work started.

My jibes are not specific to all doctors or health professionals, OB....I speak in generalities. I know that there are dedicated doctors, but they are all trained in the same institutions. They are taught to approach medicine in a particular way.

A friend of mine has not got a single qualification, nothing, didn't have that ability, but he's big, so big that he can lay a motorway kerb stone single handed. He has a very big house and a garage full of classic cars.
Deeje.... we all have abilities, and disabilities....... using these to get through life is not a badness, imo.

I know that you are basing your opinions on the British system but my concerns are more to do with the influence of big pharma on what doctors generally are allowed to prescribe and what procedures they are allowed to endorse. I understand the need for regulation, but I have come to appreciate that the practice of medicine is not all about drugs. When the pharmaceutical industry became the funders of medical institutions way back, they gained influence in ways that are now part of the problem.

Doctors were trained to rely on the drugs that these pharmaceutical corporations produced. When you went to the doctor, the first thing he did was consult his little book of medications to choose what to prescribe for you.
Do you not see the vested interest there.....an ungodly handshake, leading to corruption and abuse of power? Nowhere is this more evident than in the USA. I would not want to be sick there or need ongoing health care. I have read so many horror stories of people having to sell their homes to pay for chemotherapy, only to die and have nothing to leave their children......all their lifetime’s work was swallowed up by a gigantic, unfeeling, money gobbling machine.

They..... who are 'they'?
Which whole bunch of people did you have in mind about 'they'?

“They” are the ones who have the say about what constitutes “standard medical practice”...which always makes sure that the big pharma giants can charge whatever they like for their drugs, many of which have side effects that are often worse than the illness for which they are prescribed. So more drugs can be given to counteract the side effects....do you see the problem? There is no curing of conditions, only symptomatic relief so that patients believe that they are getting well, but they never will....they have become permanent walkers of the pharma treadmill. They will have to take these drugs for the rest of their lives and have others added as they age....all the while being convinced that these drugs are saving their lives.

Sit in any pharmacy and see how many drugs older people have been prescribed.....it’s mind boggling!
Mind boggling also when you consider the cost of them.....if not to the patient, then in our case (Australia also has an NHS) it’s the government who picks up the tab.....guess who pays for that? Guess who is getting all the money?

It wasn’t until I began to research alternative medicine that I started to put two and two together and began to compare treatments with natural medicines compared with synthetic drug therapy......the natural medicine got to the cause of the problem and aided the body to fix itself....the drug therapy never fixed the cause but only addressed the symptoms. See the difference?

Since graduating to more natural medicines and vitamin supplements, I have seen a big difference in my health as I age.

Personally I think that cannabis should be removed from the restricted and banned list, with shops allowed to sell it and suitable taxation imposed, so the our police can stop mucking about with it and alter focus..... but that's another debate entirely.

Cannabis was never a dangerous drug to begin with. It was used in medicine for thousands of years by people all over the world. The story of the banning of cannabis is a sad and sorry tale of deception with people’s health sacrificed on the alter of mammon.

When you consider the value of cannabis based medicine, and its ability to treat and potentially cure cancer and alleviate pain and suffering, treat epilepsy, and give people back their lives with no adverse side effects.....can you see why “they” wanted it banned?

Now that the cat is out of the bag, big pharma wants to control its use and distribution......can you guess why? Shouldn’t we be asking why they declared it a dangerous drug for over 70 years, when it never was? Can you see why they will sabotage it by producing an inferior product that does not really compete with their synthetic drugs? You can’t patent a plant, but if you isolate a component and synthesise it, you can patent that and cash in. But cannabis is a “whole plant” medicine...you can’t mess with nature here, but that is exactly what they do to ensure their future cash flow.

This is the system that you support because you have been told that it is science based. Much of that “science” is a manufactured con job IMO. It is so successful in its deception that even doctors and scientists have been taken in by it....but a little research will reveal the awful truth. There is so little in the commercial sphere that is not driven by greed......to the nth degree.

That is why I will not be having a Covid Vax anytime soon. I simply don’t trust the system that produces it.

 

[oldbadger]

My jibes are not specific to all doctors or health professionals, OB....I speak in generalities. I know that there are dedicated doctors, but they are all trained in the same institutions. They are taught to approach medicine in a particular way.
I know that you are basing your opinions on the British system but my concerns are more to do with the influence of big pharma on what doctors generally are allowed to prescribe and what procedures they are allowed to endorse. I understand the need for regulation, but I have come to appreciate that the practice of medicine is not all about drugs. When the pharmaceutical industry became the funders of medical institutions way back, they gained influence in ways that are now part of the problem.

Doesn't look as if you have any trust in medicine or medics, Deeje.
That's your decision and your right.

Doctors were trained to rely on the drugs that these pharmaceutical corporations produced. When you went to the doctor, the first thing he did was consult his little book of medications to choose what to prescribe for you.
Do you not see the vested interest there.....an ungodly handshake, leading to corruption and abuse of power? Nowhere is this more evident than in the USA. I would not want to be sick there or need ongoing health care. I have read so many horror stories of people having to sell their homes to pay for chemotherapy, only to die and have nothing to leave their children......all their lifetime’s work was swallowed up by a gigantic, unfeeling, money gobbling machine.

I don't live there, cannot live there, wouldn't live there.
But medications have saved me since 2003, and my wife since 2014. So there are medics and medications. You do not have to visit with any of them.

“They” are the ones who have the say about what constitutes “standard medical practice”...which always makes sure that the big pharma giants can charge whatever they like for their drugs, many of which have side effects that are often worse than the illness for which they are prescribed. So more drugs can be given to counteract the side effects....do you see the problem? There is no curing of conditions, only symptomatic relief so that patients believe that they are getting well, but they never will....they have become permanent walkers of the pharma treadmill. They will have to take these drugs for the rest of their lives and have others added as they age....all the while being convinced that these drugs are saving their lives.

Not here. The ones who have the say here are government agencies such as the:
Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency - Gov.uk
But if you believe that all our Government offices are riddled with cheats and criminals that can only complicate your decisions firther.

Sit in any pharmacy and see how many drugs older people have been prescribed.....it’s mind boggling!
Mind boggling also when you consider the cost of them.....if not to the patient, then in our case (Australia also has an NHS) it’s the government who picks up the tab.....guess who pays for that? Guess who is getting all the money?
It wasn’t until I began to research alternative medicine that I started to put two and two together and began to compare treatments with natural medicines compared with synthetic drug therapy......the natural medicine got to the cause of the problem and aided the body to fix itself....the drug therapy never fixed the cause but only addressed the symptoms. See the difference?

So you can help me. Please tell me how I can avoid the following tabs each day.
Please don't get it wrong or I could be very very ill:
Losarton 50mg
Simvastatin 40mg
Lercanidipine 10mg
Tamsulosin 400 micrograms
Iron tabs
Folic acid tabs

Since graduating to more natural medicines and vitamin supplements, I have seen a big difference in my health as I age.

Maybe you have been lucky?

Cannabis was never a dangerous drug to begin with. It was used in medicine for thousands of years by people all over the world. The story of the banning of cannabis is a sad and sorry tale of deception with people’s health sacrificed on the alter of mammon.
When you consider the value of cannabis based medicine, and its ability to treat and potentially cure cancer and alleviate pain and suffering, treat epilepsy, and give people back their lives with no adverse side effects.....can you see why “they” wanted it banned?
Now that the cat is out of the bag, big pharma wants to control its use and distribution......can you guess why? Shouldn’t we be asking why they declared it a dangerous drug for over 70 years, when it never was? Can you see why they will sabotage it by producing an inferior product that does not really compete with their synthetic drugs? You can’t patent a plant, but if you isolate a component and synthesise it, you can patent that and cash in. But cannabis is a “whole plant” medicine...you can’t mess with nature here, but that is exactly what they do to ensure their future cash flow.

Big Pharma doesn't control British medicine, Deeje.

This is the system that you support because you have been told that it is science based. Much of that “science” is a manufactured con job IMO. It is so successful in its deception that even doctors and scientists have been taken in by it....but a little research will reveal the awful truth. There is so little in the commercial sphere that is not driven by greed......to the nth degree.

That's true where you are, I guess. But three weeks ago a lab tech's care and attention got me in to the operating theatre within three days and saved my kidneys. No medicines were used at all other than anaesthetics.
I'm interested in alternative medicine but if you think our NHS is full opf quacks you should dig in to the AM scams, Deeje.

That is why I will not be having a Covid Vax anytime soon. I simply don’t trust the system that produces it.

Indeed. Where I live you can refuse any vaccines, our Government has made a point of advertising that choice. But (for instance) anybody standing outside a vaccine clinic here trying to stop others in any way at all will be detained and removed immediately.
What is your alternative medicine for the aggressive strains of Covid 19?

 

[exchemist]

Doesn't look as if you have any trust in medicine or medics, Deeje.
That's your decision and your right.

I don't live there, cannot live there, wouldn't live there.
But medications have saved me since 2003, and my wife since 2014. So there are medics and medications. You do not have to visit with any of them.

Not here. The ones who have the say here are government agencies such as the:
Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency - Gov.uk
But if you believe that all our Government offices are riddled with cheats and criminals that can only complicate your decisions firther.

So you can help me. Please tell me how I can avoid the following tabs each day.
Please don't get it wrong or I could be very very ill:
Losarton 50mg
Simvastatin 40mg
Lercanidipine 10mg
Tamsulosin 400 micrograms
Iron tabs
Folic acid tabs


Maybe you have been lucky?

Big Pharma doesn't control British medicine, Deeje.

That's true where you are, I guess. But three weeks ago a lab tech's care and attention got me in to the operating theatre within three days and saved my kidneys. No medicines were used at all other than anaesthetics.
I'm interested in alternative medicine but if you think our NHS is full opf quacks you should dig in to the AM scams, Deeje.

Indeed. Where I live you can refuse any vaccines, our Government has made a point of advertising that choice. But (for instance) anybody standing outside a vaccine clinic here trying to stop others in any way at all will be detained and removed immediately.
What is your alternative medicine for the aggressive strains of Covid 19?

Death, apparently.

 

[oldbadger]

Death, apparently.

By the way, I expect that you must be very proud of your (younger?) Bro.... and he of you.
What kind of chemistry were you working in? And what do you do now in retirement?

 

[exchemist]

By the way, I expect that you must be very proud of your (younger?) Bro.... and he of you.
What kind of chemistry were you working in? And what do you do now in retirement?

Yes he was the clever one of the family : the only one to get a First.

I worked briefly as a patent agent and then in the oil industry, in the lubricants division, where the technology is a mixture of chemistry and engineering. In my last job I was a product manager for a group of industrial lubricants including those for large diesel and gas engines (ships, power stations), turbines and transformer oils (where the oil is a coolant and an insulator).

The engines something like this looked like this - a big V18 example (it's not me in the photo):

 

[oldbadger]

Yes he was the clever one of the family : the only one to get a First.

Honours is fine....

I worked briefly as a patent agent and then in the oil industry, in the lubricants division, where the technology is a mixture of chemistry and engineering. In my last job I was a product manager for a group of industrial lubricants including those for large diesel and gas engines (ships, power stations), turbines and transformer oils (where the oil is a coolant and an insulator).

The engines something like this looked like this - a big V18 example (it's not me in the photo):

My father was an international rep for Shell, fuel oils etc....
A dinky little motor there, imagine dropping a valve on that little darling.
@Revoltingest might like to see that one... It's bigger un 'is, anyway.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I’m just curious. Can you list the people whose skin you think it got under here? I’m afraid you’ll be disappointed.

There was a very strong indication early on in this thread. By you. Claiming it's stupid. Nothing more, nothing less. No reason, no justification, just upfront dismissal.

 

[exchemist]

Honours is fine....


My father was an international rep for Shell, fuel oils etc....
A dinky little motor there, imagine dropping a valve on that little darling.
@Revoltingest might like to see that one... It's bigger un 'is, anyway.

Really. I was with Shell too. 33 years.

The lubricants families were named after seashells (as were the oil tankers). "My" set of families included Alexia (crosshead cylinder oil), Melina (crosshead crankcase oil), Argina (trunk piston engines, heavy fuel), Gadinia (trunk piston, distillate fuel), Mysella (gas engines), Turbo (steam, gas and combined cycle turbines) and Diala (transformers). The fuel played as big a part in the required chemistry of the lubricant as the type of machinery.

But we are off-piste, now.

 

[Quagmire]

My jibes are not specific to all doctors or health professionals, OB....I speak in generalities. I know that there are dedicated doctors, but they are all trained in the same institutions. They are taught to approach medicine in a particular way.



I know that you are basing your opinions on the British system but my concerns are more to do with the influence of big pharma on what doctors generally are allowed to prescribe and what procedures they are allowed to endorse. I understand the need for regulation, but I have come to appreciate that the practice of medicine is not all about drugs. When the pharmaceutical industry became the funders of medical institutions way back, they gained influence in ways that are now part of the problem.

Doctors were trained to rely on the drugs that these pharmaceutical corporations produced. When you went to the doctor, the first thing he did was consult his little book of medications to choose what to prescribe for you.
Do you not see the vested interest there.....an ungodly handshake, leading to corruption and abuse of power? Nowhere is this more evident than in the USA. I would not want to be sick there or need ongoing health care. I have read so many horror stories of people having to sell their homes to pay for chemotherapy, only to die and have nothing to leave their children......all their lifetime’s work was swallowed up by a gigantic, unfeeling, money gobbling machine.



“They” are the ones who have the say about what constitutes “standard medical practice”...which always makes sure that the big pharma giants can charge whatever they like for their drugs, many of which have side effects that are often worse than the illness for which they are prescribed. So more drugs can be given to counteract the side effects....do you see the problem? There is no curing of conditions, only symptomatic relief so that patients believe that they are getting well, but they never will....they have become permanent walkers of the pharma treadmill. They will have to take these drugs for the rest of their lives and have others added as they age....all the while being convinced that these drugs are saving their lives.

Sit in any pharmacy and see how many drugs older people have been prescribed.....it’s mind boggling!
Mind boggling also when you consider the cost of them.....if not to the patient, then in our case (Australia also has an NHS) it’s the government who picks up the tab.....guess who pays for that? Guess who is getting all the money?

It wasn’t until I began to research alternative medicine that I started to put two and two together and began to compare treatments with natural medicines compared with synthetic drug therapy......the natural medicine got to the cause of the problem and aided the body to fix itself....the drug therapy never fixed the cause but only addressed the symptoms. See the difference?

Since graduating to more natural medicines and vitamin supplements, I have seen a big difference in my health as I age.



Cannabis was never a dangerous drug to begin with. It was used in medicine for thousands of years by people all over the world. The story of the banning of cannabis is a sad and sorry tale of deception with people’s health sacrificed on the alter of mammon.

When you consider the value of cannabis based medicine, and its ability to treat and potentially cure cancer and alleviate pain and suffering, treat epilepsy, and give people back their lives with no adverse side effects.....can you see why “they” wanted it banned?

Now that the cat is out of the bag, big pharma wants to control its use and distribution......can you guess why? Shouldn’t we be asking why they declared it a dangerous drug for over 70 years, when it never was? Can you see why they will sabotage it by producing an inferior product that does not really compete with their synthetic drugs? You can’t patent a plant, but if you isolate a component and synthesise it, you can patent that and cash in. But cannabis is a “whole plant” medicine...you can’t mess with nature here, but that is exactly what they do to ensure their future cash flow.

This is the system that you support because you have been told that it is science based. Much of that “science” is a manufactured con job IMO. It is so successful in its deception that even doctors and scientists have been taken in by it....but a little research will reveal the awful truth. There is so little in the commercial sphere that is not driven by greed......to the nth degree.

That is why I will not be having a Covid Vax anytime soon. I simply don’t trust the system that produces it.

I can understand and empathize with your distrust of the medical community, Deeje. And big pharma is a whole 'nother and much more reptilian animal as far as I'm concerned.

That said I really don't see what alternative we have to taking the vaccine.

Even if the safety measures we have were 100% effective, they would still rely on the self-discipline of the masses. In other words there really isn't much of a chance there.

There may be consequences to taking the vaccine, but we already know what the consequences would be to letting the pandemic rage on the way it has been.

 

[Deeje]

I can understand and empathize with your distrust of the medical community, Deeje. And big pharma is a whole 'nother and much more reptilian animal as far as I'm concerned.

The best approach IMO, to minimise getting sick at all is to make sure that your immune system is in good shape. You can tell if it’s not functioning well if you are one of those who gets colds and flu routinely every year, especially in the winter months. If you succumb to these viruses readily, then your immune system needs attention. Alternative practitioners can help you to do this with changes to diet, appropriate supplements and detox. It’s the best first line of defense....so those who get only mild symptoms with Covid will usually have a strong immune system......or they have been exposed to a low viral load. Unless they have underlying health issues, children do not generally get very sick at all.

Job losses lead to homelessness, which leads to poor nutrition and that in turn leads to a compromised immune system. This virus is producing more victims, and the actions of a few careless people can spread it because some believe that it’s not that serious. Someone told them not to wear masks for some insane reason, and then got the virus himself. If only the average "Joe" had the same financial resources.

That said I really don't see what alternative we have to taking the vaccine.

Each one of us has to make their own choices....but they should be informed choices....

Even if the safety measures we have were 100% effective, they would still rely on the self-discipline of the masses. In other words there really isn't much of a chance there.

Taking your own strict precautions will give you the best chance of avoiding infection.....so as long as there are careless or misinformed people, the risk remains.....but until the long term affects of any vaccines are documented over a considerable period of time, it is up to the individual to make their own choices. I can only speak from my own perspective. Here in Australia, we have very low case numbers, so I can afford to be more cautious.

There may be consequences to taking the vaccine, but we already know what the consequences would be to letting the pandemic rage on the way it has been.

Keeping things in perspective....

Coronavirus Cases:
74,394,190
view by country
Deaths:
1,652,511
Recovered:
52,198,017

We can see that this virus is deadly, more than the seasonal flu, which also takes many lives every year in the same risk categories....
According to the experts, the same precautions are effective. Wear masks, wash hands, avoid crowds.

I personally think this virus was engineered by humans with an agenda, and I’m not entirely sure that this particular SARS virus wasn’t released on purpose. That said, it is the extreme contagiousness of this virus that makes it alarming. When you engender fear, you can talk people into doing things that they would normally think twice about.

I prefer to exercise caution on all fronts. That is just my personal position on this issue, knowing the evil nature of those who smell money and will stop at nothing to achieve their goals.

 

[Watchmen]

There was a very strong indication early on in this thread. By you. Claiming it's stupid. Nothing more, nothing less. No reason, no justification, just upfront dismissal.

Saying stupid does not equate to under my skin. Duh.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Saying stupid does not equate to under my skin. Duh.

It's one of those "not what you said but how you said it" sort of things.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The best approach IMO, to minimise getting sick at all is to make sure that your immune system is in good shape. You can tell if it’s not functioning well if you are one of those who gets colds and flu routinely every year, especially in the winter months. If you succumb to these viruses readily, then your immune system needs attention. Alternative practitioners can help you to do this with changes to diet, appropriate supplements and detox. It’s the best first line of defense....so those who get only mild symptoms with Covid will usually have a strong immune system......or they have been exposed to a low viral load. Unless they have underlying health issues, children do not generally get very sick at all.

Job losses lead to homelessness, which leads to poor nutrition and that in turn leads to a compromised immune system. This virus is producing more victims, and the actions of a few careless people can spread it because some believe that it’s not that serious. Someone told them not to wear masks for some insane reason, and then got the virus himself. If only the average "Joe" had the same financial resources.



Each one of us has to make their own choices....but they should be informed choices....



Taking your own strict precautions will give you the best chance of avoiding infection.....so as long as there are careless or misinformed people, the risk remains.....but until the long term affects of any vaccines are documented over a considerable period of time, it is up to the individual to make their own choices. I can only speak from my own perspective. Here in Australia, we have very low case numbers, so I can afford to be more cautious.



Keeping things in perspective....

Coronavirus Cases:
74,394,190
view by country
Deaths:
1,652,511
Recovered:
52,198,017

We can see that this virus is really not more deadly than the seasonal flu, which takes many lives every year in the same risk categories....just to have a balanced view.
According to the experts, the same precautions are effective.
Coronavirus Disease 2019 vs. the Flu

I personally think this virus was engineered by humans with an agenda, and I’m not entirely sure that this particular SARS virus wasn’t released on purpose. That said, it is the extreme contagiousness of this virus that makes it alarming. When you engender fear, you can talk people into doing things that they would normally think twice about.

I prefer to exercise caution on all fronts. That is just my personal position on this issue, knowing the evil nature of those who smell money and will stop at nothing to achieve their goals.

Too bad that you probably have me on ignore. But the Corona Virus is far more deadly than the common flu. Check out the stats here:

Flu vs. Coronavirus (COVID-19): Mortality Rates and Deaths Per Year - GoodRx

2017-2018 Flu 2018-2019 Flu COVID-19
Cases 45 million 35 million 5 million
Deaths 61,000 34,157 180,000+

Please note that this was earlier in the year currently we are at 17,392,618 cases and 314,577 deaths. That is almost 20 times more deadly than the flu.

Obviously not every case is deadly, but a disease 20 times as deadly as the flu and is presently growing at unprecedented rates is definitely something to worry about.

EDIT: That is weird. I put nice spacing between my numbers and when I posted the spacing disappeared. To see the neater version simply hit "Reply".

 

[Watchmen]

It's one of those "not what you said but how you said it" sort of things.

Uh huh. Sure. The op was stupid. I called it for what it was. I think you just don’t like me. You’re pointing out something from days ago. Bye bye.