My views on homosexuality

[Sultan Of Swing]

My view on homosexuality depends on one factor.

If homosexuality is a choice, then it's a sin.
If it isn't a choice, then it isn't a sin. God would not create someone who could not help but sin.

Could someone please provide some evidence proving that it isn't a choice or is a choice? I need to clear this up for myself.

And if it is a choice, does this mean that I think that homosexuals will go to Hell (if there is a Hell)? Certainly not. A homosexual would be just as much a sinner as everyone else, and has an equal chance of salvation.

 

[fantome profane]

My view on homosexuality depends on one factor.

If homosexuality is a choice, then it's a sin.
If it isn't a choice, then it isn't a sin. God would not create someone who could not help but sin.

It depends on no such thing. You have a choice on whether or not to put gravy on your fries, does that mean gravy is a sin?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

It depends on no such thing. You have a choice on whether or not to put gravy on your fries, does that mean gravy is a sin?

That isn't a valid analogy. Homosexuality is seen by many as an "abomination", as an act against the "laws of nature". Putting gravy on your fries isn't. To choose to do it, and reject heterosexuality, would be a sin, in my opinion, by openly defying God's intended plan. But if it isn't a choice, and is something people are born with, then it is no sin, and is instead just the beautiful variety that God has gifted each and everyone of us with.

 

[fantome profane]

That isn't a valid analogy. Homosexuality is seen by many as an "abomination", as an act against the "laws of nature". Putting gravy on your fries isn't. To choose to do it, and reject heterosexuality, would be a sin, in my opinion, by openly defying God's intended plan. But if it isn't a choice, and is something people are born with, then it is no sin, and is instead just the beautiful variety that God has gifted each and everyone of us with.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT] Whatever “many people see it as” is irrelevant and a logical fallacy. And it is very easy to make claims about what “God’s intentions” are. I could just as easily claim that gravy on fries is against “God’s plan”, and that argument would be just as “valid” as those who make the same claims about homosexuality. “God” doesn’t seem available for comment.

 

[Vile Atheist]

My view on homosexuality depends on one factor.

If homosexuality is a choice, then it's a sin.
If it isn't a choice, then it isn't a sin. God would not create someone who could not help but sin.

Could someone please provide some evidence proving that it isn't a choice or is a choice? I need to clear this up for myself.

And if it is a choice, does this mean that I think that homosexuals will go to Hell (if there is a Hell)? Certainly not. A homosexual would be just as much a sinner as everyone else, and has an equal chance of salvation.

Although my fellow Canadian, fantome profane, said mostly what I was going to say anyway, I'm going to address the last part of your post, which he missed. I won't bother repeating the choice stuff.

Is homosexuality a choice? I can give you clear evidence. Do you have a good-looking male friend (I'm assuming you're male)? Go up to him and kiss him. Can you? Okay, despite the black eye you have just received from your friend, can you see how this isn't really a choice that people consciously make? Further, if homosexuality is a choice, does that imply that heterosexuality is also a choice? At what point did you choose to be heterosexual?

My final point is this. Think about (most of) the Ten Commandments. They set out clear moral guides that you obviously agree with (I assume). I hope you agree that killing, stealing, lying, dishonouring your parents, etc. is all immoral. Not only that, but you can provide a justification for why each of those actions is immoral. If I asked you "Why is killing immoral?", you can give me a definitive answer, right?

What if I asked you "Why is homosexuality immoral?". Who does homosexuality harm? Does it hurt anyone if two loving, consenting adults of the same gender have a private relationship? What are the consequences to you if two men in San Francisco decide to get it on in their bedroom?

You know what the Bible also says? You shouldn't eat shellfish. Do you know why (most) people ignore this part of the Bible? Because there is no justification to say eating shellfish or mixing two fabrics (there are lots of these Biblical examples), etc. is immoral. I see you have more socially liberal views than a few vocal Christians do (this is a great thing). But ask yourself why you think it is a sin? What is the justification for it?

 

[Madhuri]

You mentioned that homosexuality is considered an act against the laws of nature. But we see examples of homosexuality in nature in other primate species and even in bird species. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior)

There are studies that show social, psychological and biological determinants of homosexuality. Generally, people who are homosexual claim to have had this inclination since they began having sexual feelings. For me personally, this is enough to convince me that they at least do not make a conscious decision to have sex with only the same sex. Imo, a choice implies that the individual is heterosexual but somehow becomes tricked or rebels by deciding to have sexual relations with the same sex.

I think this idea is absurd. As a heterosexual person, it seems almost impossible for me to imagine becoming even slightly attracted to the same sex, what to speak of actually bringing myself to having sex with another woman.

What do you think it means for homosexuality to be natural? To me it means that a person's sexual orientation is established during the developmental phase within the womb or in some instances, in early childhood. Due to the fact that there is still no complete and established scientific understanding of the causes of homosexuality, what remains most important to me is the fact that the individuals who are homosexual experience the same level of attraction toward the same sex as a heterosexual does toward the opposite sex, and a similar level of repulsion toward the opposite sex that a heterosexual has toward the same sex.

Can you imagine, as a heterosexual, being pressured into engaging in homosexual sex? Do you think you could make an easy choice to have sex with other men if you did not think it was a sin? If you answer yes, then I assume you are bisexual. If you answer no, then that is how a homosexual feels about having sex with someone of the opposite sex. How can we judge them for doing what feels natural? How can we expect them to do something that feels unnatural and repulsive?

That is my opinion.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Although my fellow Canadian, fantome profane, said mostly what I was going to say anyway, I'm going to address the last part of your post, which he missed. I won't bother repeating the choice stuff.

Is homosexuality a choice? I can give you clear evidence. Do you have a good-looking male friend (I'm assuming you're male)? Go up to him and kiss him. Can you? Okay, despite the black eye you have just received from your friend, can you see how this isn't really a choice that people consciously make? Further, if homosexuality is a choice, does that imply that heterosexuality is also a choice? At what point did you choose to be heterosexual?

My final point is this. Think about (most of) the Ten Commandments. They set out clear moral guides that you obviously agree with (I assume). I hope you agree that killing, stealing, lying, dishonouring your parents, etc. is all immoral. Not only that, but you can provide a justification for why each of those actions is immoral. If I asked you "Why is killing immoral?", you can give me a definitive answer, right?

What if I asked you "Why is homosexuality immoral?". Who does homosexuality harm? Does it hurt anyone if two loving, consenting adults of the same gender have a private relationship? What are the consequences to you if two men in San Francisco decide to get it on in their bedroom?

You know what the Bible also says? You shouldn't eat shellfish. Do you know why (most) people ignore this part of the Bible? Because there is no justification to say eating shellfish or mixing two fabrics (there are lots of these Biblical examples), etc. is immoral. I see you have more socially liberal views than a few vocal Christians do (this is a great thing). But ask yourself why you think it is a sin? What is the justification for it?

I understand.
Perhaps the repulsion towards homosexuality is rooted in the traditions of the time rather than being the Word of God, rather like the shellfish command you mentioned, and Paul's command that women should stay silent in church. Thank you.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

You mentioned that homosexuality is considered an act against the laws of nature. But we see examples of homosexuality in nature in other primate species and even in bird species. (List of animals displaying homosexual behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

There are studies that show social, psychological and biological determinants of homosexuality. Generally, people who are homosexual claim to have had this inclination since they began having sexual feelings. For me personally, this is enough to convince me that they at least do not make a conscious decision to have sex with only the same sex. Imo, a choice implies that the individual is heterosexual but somehow becomes tricked or rebels by deciding to have sexual relations with the same sex.

I think this idea is absurd. As a heterosexual person, it seems almost impossible for me to imagine becoming even slightly attracted to the same sex, what to speak of actually bringing myself to having sex with another woman.

What do you think it means for homosexuality to be natural? To me it means that a person's sexual orientation is established during the developmental phase within the womb or in some instances, in early childhood. Due to the fact that there is still no complete and established scientific understanding of the causes of homosexuality, what remains most important to me is the fact that the individuals who are homosexual experience the same level of attraction toward the same sex as a heterosexual does toward the opposite sex, and a similar level of repulsion toward the opposite sex that a heterosexual has toward the same sex.

Can you imagine, as a heterosexual, being pressured into engaging in homosexual sex? Do you think you could make an easy choice to have sex with other men if you did not think it was a sin? If you answer yes, then I assume you are bisexual. If you answer no, then that is how a homosexual feels about having sex with someone of the opposite sex. How can we judge them for doing what feels natural? How can we expect them to do something that feels unnatural and repulsive?

That is my opinion.

No, I can't imagine it. I could never be attracted to the same sex in the slightest, and this does indeed ask the question that how could homosexuals ever make that choice. Thank you.
My doubts are cleared up now. I feel better.

 

[Madhuri]

Glad to help!
Here in Aus the Anglican church is actually opening up to homsexuals to be priests. They already allow women priests. It's a great thing imo.

 

[zenzero]

Friend SoS,

My views on homosexuality

It is just a view a perspective and is just a mental construct!
Best Wishes.

Love & rgds

 

[Greyn]

Homosexuality is a choice. As an example, I am very attracted to blond women. But, I married a brunette woman. I am still attracted to blond women, but I have made a promise to stay monogamous to my brunette wife. I am making a choice about my sexual preference.

Now, whether or not it is natural to be homosexual, I do not know.

I do know that I do all sorts of things that are called sinful in the Bible on a daily basis! And I work on them as I can, ask for help sometimes and a lot of times simply ignore them. I will have to deal with that on Judgement day (today?) like everyone else. So, saying that, there is no way I am personally going to judge anyone that is a practicing homosexual or otherwise.

 

[fantome profane]

Homosexuality is a choice. As an example, I am very attracted to blond women. But, I married a brunette woman. I am still attracted to blond women, but I have made a promise to stay monogamous to my brunette wife. I am making a choice about my sexual preference.

Are you attracted to blond men? Have you made a choice not to be attracted to men? If homosexuality is a choice perhaps you could tell us something about when you made your choice not to be homosexual. What was that choice like for you?

 

[Greyn]

Are you attracted to blond men? Have you made a choice not to be attracted to men? If homosexuality is a choice perhaps you could tell us something about when you made your choice not to be homosexual. What was that choice like for you?

Please read the my entire post and not just the first paragraph....

The act is choice, whether or not the state is a choice or natural is beyond me.

 

[Vinayaka]

Who in their right mind would choose to be homosexual and face all this bigotry? Might as well have 'kick me' stamped on your forehead. Ash homeosexuals themselves this question. I'm betting 98% will say it was no choice, and the other 2 were born into homophobic families, and were convinced that they made poor choices.

 

[rusra02]

My view on homosexuality depends on one factor.

If homosexuality is a choice, then it's a sin.
If it isn't a choice, then it isn't a sin. God would not create someone who could not help but sin.

Could someone please provide some evidence proving that it isn't a choice or is a choice? I need to clear this up for myself.

And if it is a choice, does this mean that I think that homosexuals will go to Hell (if there is a Hell)? Certainly not. A homosexual would be just as much a sinner as everyone else, and has an equal chance of salvation.

True Christians accept the Bible as their authority on such matters. The Bible clearly condemns homosexual acts as 'disgraceful, obscene, and error' at Romans 1:26,27.
As with other wrong desires, homosexual thoughts can be controlled and rejected. Thus many in the early days of Christianity who were homosexuals changed their conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) Other sins involve our choice to do something or not. Drunkenness, stealing, lying, fornication, and homosexual acts are all choices people make to do or refrain from. God will hold each of us accountable for what we do. He will help us change if we choose to serve him.

 

[Vinayaka]

Why be selective just for homosexuals. What about the many other abominations?

snopes.com: Letter to Dr. Laura

 

[Greyn]

True Christians accept the Bible as their authority on such matters. The Bible clearly condemns homosexual acts as 'disgraceful, obscene, and error' at Romans 1:26,27.
As with other wrong desires, homosexual thoughts can be controlled and rejected. Thus many in the early days of Christianity who were homosexuals changed their conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) Other sins involve our choice to do something or not. Drunkenness, stealing, lying, fornication, and homosexual acts are all choices people make to do or refrain from. God will hold each of us accountable for what we do. He will help us change if we choose to serve him.

That is a bold statement. I would like to know how you identify "True Christians". That is a pretty specific label for what seems a broad community.

 

[sky dancer]

My view on homosexuality depends on one factor.

If homosexuality is a choice, then it's a sin.
If it isn't a choice, then it isn't a sin. God would not create someone who could not help but sin.

Could someone please provide some evidence proving that it isn't a choice or is a choice? I need to clear this up for myself.

And if it is a choice, does this mean that I think that homosexuals will go to Hell (if there is a Hell)? Certainly not. A homosexual would be just as much a sinner as everyone else, and has an equal chance of salvation.

We cannot prove that homosexuality is a choice or not because sexuality is on a continuum. Some people are heterosexual completely, they are never attracted to nor engage in romantic relationships with people of the same sex. Some are bi-sexual, or experimental when it come to sexual relationships and enjoy both genders. Some who enjoy both genders have a preference for one over the other, others do not.

Then there are gay men and lesbians who never have attraction for someone of the opposite gender.

One has to buy a Judaeo-Christian or Muslim ethic to think that homosexuality is a sin. Buddhists don't even have the concept of sin or salvation, and when we think of hell, it is a temporary, not eternal state.

The way it is a choice, is that it's like being left-handed. Some people are able to make themselves write with their right hand, although it doesn't feel natural to them. You can make some homosexuals and lesbians have relationships with the opposite sex, but it's not natural for them to do so.

Once upon a time being left handed was a sin. Sin isn't all it's cracked up to be.

One day, I believe a gay gene will be identified.

 

[sky dancer]

True Christians accept the Bible as their authority on such matters. The Bible clearly condemns homosexual acts as 'disgraceful, obscene, and error' at Romans 1:26,27.
As with other wrong desires, homosexual thoughts can be controlled and rejected. Thus many in the early days of Christianity who were homosexuals changed their conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) Other sins involve our choice to do something or not. Drunkenness, stealing, lying, fornication, and homosexual acts are all choices people make to do or refrain from. God will hold each of us accountable for what we do. He will help us change if we choose to serve him.

In that case, not believing in God and avoiding bible thumpers is a smart thing for homosexuals.

 

[Greyn]

We cannot prove that homosexuality is a choice or not because sexuality is on a continuum. Some people are heterosexual completely, they are never attracted to nor engage in romantic relationships with people of the same sex. Some are bi-sexual, or experimental when it come to sexual relationships and enjoy both genders. Some who enjoy both genders have a preference for one over the other, others do not.

Then there are gay men and lesbians who never have attraction for someone of the opposite gender.

One has to buy a Judaeo-Christian or Muslim ethic to think that homosexuality is a sin. Buddhists don't even have the concept of sin or salvation, and when we think of hell, it is a temporary, not eternal state.

The way it is a choice, is that it's like being left-handed. Some people are able to make themselves write with their right hand, although it doesn't feel natural to them. You can make some homosexuals and lesbians have relationships with the opposite sex, but it's not natural for them to do so.

Once upon a time being left handed was a sin. Sin isn't all it's cracked up to be.

One day, I believe a gay gene will be identified.

But, no one is making anyone have homosexual sex (typically).

I have heard that there are 100% heterosexual Catholic priests (no fault of their own...it is natural, right?) that make a choice never to have sex.

And if there is a gay gene, then will they find a hetro gene as well? Or will the gay gene be something like a malfunctioning gene?