My views on homosexuality

[Wills191]

Yes in my case it is a choice.

I'm bisexual, so I choose to have a bf. Same way I could choose to have a gf.

So yeah in a way acting on your heterosexual and homosexual feelings are a choice for bisexuals. And I'm so glad I chose a guy too!



Would be interesting to know what religions say about this.

 

[MissAlice]

Yes in my case it is a choice.

I'm bisexual, so I choose to have a bf. Same way I could choose to have a gf.

So yeah in a way acting on your heterosexual and homosexual feelings are a choice for bisexuals. And I'm so glad I chose a guy too!



Would be interesting to know what religions say about this.

I don't think it matters. Religion will always find a way to persecute anyone who isn't of a "normal" sexual orientation. I honestly can't understand where this fear comes from. Even if it was a choice I don't see how it would hurt anyone. Even the homosexuals who say it isn't a choice are still in this day and age persecuted by the very people who claim it is. This to me speaks more about the people who believe in such twisted logics than it does the "sinners". Good thing in the US we have a law to protect gay people against hate crimes.

 

[waitasec]

I don't think it matters. Religion will always find a way to persecute anyone who isn't of a "normal" sexual orientation. I honestly can't understand where this fear comes from. Even if it was a choice I don't see how it would hurt anyone. Even the homosexuals who say it isn't a choice are still in this day and age persecuted by the very people who claim it is. This to me speaks more about the people who believe in such twisted logics than it does the "sinners". Good thing in the US we have a law to protect gay people against hate crimes.

i agree..
i would also say that
society uses religion to "find a way to persecute anyone who isn't of a "normal" sexual orientation." thank goodness society is beginning to change it's perception about homosexuality...much like racial segregation...

 

[MissAlice]

i agree..
i would also say that
society uses religion to "find a way to persecute anyone who isn't of a "normal" sexual orientation." thank goodness society is beginning to change it's perception about homosexuality...much like racial segregation...

Agreed. And I think we need to remember that religion has been used as a tools to hate people for many reasons, not just homosexuality. Therein lies the problem at least for a majority of history when religion was once used as the political tool by the rich and powerful. I wish it wasn't still so to some extent in the US.... But it sure beats the days of slavery and a time where wealthy white men were the only citizens who could contribute to society. :yes:

 

[Koldo]

My view on homosexuality depends on one factor.

If homosexuality is a choice, then it's a sin.
If it isn't a choice, then it isn't a sin. God would not create someone who could not help but sin.

Could someone please provide some evidence proving that it isn't a choice or is a choice? I need to clear this up for myself.

And if it is a choice, does this mean that I think that homosexuals will go to Hell (if there is a Hell)? Certainly not. A homosexual would be just as much a sinner as everyone else, and has an equal chance of salvation.

It all depends on what part of homosexuality we are talking about.

As a male heterosexual, you know you didn't choose to be attracted to women. The same goes for male homosexuals as they didn't choose to be attracted to men.

However, you also know very well that we can abstain from engaging into relationships ( sexual and/or romantic ) if we want to.

 

[sky dancer]

But, no one is making anyone have homosexual sex (typically).

I have heard that there are 100% heterosexual Catholic priests (no fault of their own...it is natural, right?) that make a choice never to have sex.

And if there is a gay gene, then will they find a hetro gene as well? Or will the gay gene be something like a malfunctioning gene?

Being gay is like being left handed. There may be a genetic reason some people are left-handed but the real point is that being left handed is as normal and natural to a left handed person as being right handed is to the majority that are right handed.

We don't call people who are left handed 'defective' just because their left handedness occurs less often in nature. Neither should we presume that homosexuality arises from a 'defective' gene.

For the life of me, I continue to find the ignorance about homosexuality a sad phenomenon.

We don't choose to be left handed. Left handed people can choose to use their right hand, allow it will not feel natural to them. We used to think the left hand was the hand of the devil and force left handed people to write with their right hands.

Hopefully, anti-gay Christians will get over their insistence that gay people become straight in order to be accepted into their churches.

Frankly, I don't understand why any self-respecting gay person would choose to go to a church that tells them their very being is sinful and worthy of rejecting.

 

[McBell]

No. If I went by popular opinion, I'd be believing lots of other stuff. Which I don't.

Strawman.
We are not talking about popular opinion on any of the other stuff.

Public opinion or not, I was already leaning towards the fact that homosexuality was not a sin, and I just needed a nudge .

Huh?
The Biblical deity says that same sex sex is a sin.
Period.

The question is, is it really what God says? Often His commands are fitted to that time and tradition.

Fair enough.

God (speaking through Paul) says that women shouldn't speak in church. He also says not to eat shellfish.

Except that God is not speaking through Paul when Paul said that.
In fact, Paul states that it is merely his opinion.

There is a difference between what God says and what Man says God says in order to fit with his own beliefs and traditions. When concerning homosexuality, the Bible mainly condemns the evils that are associated with it; male rape, male prostitution etc. I look at the Scriptures in their historical and cultural context.

You missed the one in Duet. that flat out states if a man lies with another man as a man lies with a woman they are to be put to death.

Paul's own condemnation of homosexuality is his own opinion, in my opinion.

Most of what Paul says in the currently accepted 66 book Bible is by Paul's own mouth merely Paul's opinion.

The people of those times did not understand the loving relationship two people of the same sex could share.

Pure speculation.
Remember that verse in Duet.?

When thinking of homosexuality, they could only think of the aforementioned sins associated with it, which God certainly condemns.

Pssst.
Duet.

Jesus says nothing about homosexuality, and it is His teachings that I follow.

So is not Jesus the same God as the god of the OT?

 

[Oneatatime]

i agree..
i would also say that
society uses religion to "find a way to persecute anyone who isn't of a "normal" sexual orientation." thank goodness society is beginning to change it's perception about homosexuality...much like racial segregation...

It is true that the religious in a society cherry pick from their belief system that which supports their views but equally the belief system can play a strong formative role in the development of a persons views. When this happens and the result is an individual who is homophobic the religion cannot be absolved of responsibility through claiming that it was being wrongly used as justification for a pre-existing homophobia.

Short of editing out those parts of religious scipture which are considerd intolerent, discimimatory and genearally incompatable with modern notions of human rights there is no of ensuring this doesn't happen. Scipture has been edited in the past but I doubt that many would contenance such a massive revision as would be required to accomplish this.

I just have to hope that the religious in the west continue to be selective in their adoption of their religions moral values.

 

[Vile Atheist]

I understand.
Perhaps the repulsion towards homosexuality is rooted in the traditions of the time rather than being the Word of God, rather like the shellfish command you mentioned, and Paul's command that women should stay silent in church. Thank you.

Yes and no. There were many ancient cultures that practiced homosexuality. See my avatar? It's of a Spartan. The ancient Spartans were a warrior society. The veteran warriors would take young males and have sexual relationships because they believed if you loved the people you were fighting with on the battlefield, you would fight much better to protect them. (They also threw deformed babies off a chasm...)

It's not so much that it was the "traditions of the time", but it's the traditions of that particular culture being ingrained in that religion.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Strawman.

You missed the one in Duet. that flat out states if a man lies with another man as a man lies with a woman they are to be put to death.

It's not in Deuteronomy, it's in Leviticus.
Deuteronomy however, does state not to be a "shrine prostitute". That's understandable.

So is not Jesus the same God as the god of the OT?

He is. But the Levitical Laws were set up for Israelites to follow before the coming of the Messiah when a new covenant would be established. Jesus then came and formed a new covenant, giving only two great commandments to live by, and effectively renovating much of the Law. Paul goes on to emphasise that Jesus is now the only way, and that the Law is no longer relevant in attainment of everlasting life. This agrees then with the statement that the Levitical Law was in accordance with the tradition and time, and as Jesus forms the new covenant, He rightly gives way to the loving relationships that homosexuality can produce.

He says in Romans 6:14 - "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
Paul makes clear in multiple passages that we are no longer under the law, but under the grace of God and through the blood of Christ we no longer have to observe much of the Law, but should focus on Jesus' greatest commandments.

 

[Madhuri]

It's not in Deuteronomy, it's in Leviticus.
Deuteronomy however, does state not to be a "shrine prostitute". That's understandable.

He is. But the Levitical Laws were set up for Israelites to follow before the coming of the Messiah when a new covenant would be established. Jesus then came and formed a new covenant, giving only two great commandments to live by, and effectively renovating much of the Law. Paul goes on to emphasise that Jesus is now the only way, and that the Law is no longer relevant in attainment of everlasting life. This agrees then with the statement that the Levitical Law was in accordance with the tradition and time, and as Jesus forms the new covenant, He rightly gives way to the loving relationships that homosexuality can produce.

He says in Romans 6:14 - "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
Paul makes clear in multiple passages that we are no longer under the law, but under the grace of God and through the blood of Christ we no longer have to observe much of the Law, but should focus on Jesus' greatest commandments.

Why did God establish those laws in the first place if they are not universal or important to follow?

 

[Madhuri]

(They also threw deformed babies off a chasm...)

Actually I think it was more common to leave the baby to die up the top of their sacred mountain.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Why did God establish those laws in the first place if they are not universal or important to follow?

They were important at the time, for whatever reason. The main factor, I believe, was male prostitution, male rape and cultist practices of group homosexuality. I think this is what God had in mind when speaking of homosexuality. God does not condemn the loving, beneficial relationship that two people of the same sex can share.

Many things, in that time, were also seen as unclean. Perhaps, in that time, homosexuality was indeed an unclean act, but through the new covenant, this was taken away. Uncircumcised men were seen as unclean, but through Christ they were no longer seen as unclean. In the same way that Christ's resurrection destroyed the barriers of circumcision and race, the same could be said for sexuality.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Actually I think it was more common to leave the baby to die up the top of their sacred mountain.

But then sadly that baby would be found and raised by someone. This baby would then grow up into a strong man, and through some strange events would become King, and then unknowingly marry his own mother.

Oh, I love Greek tragedies.

 

[Greyn]

You guys are completely self-righteous! I NEVER said that being homosexual is not natural. I never said ANYTHING bigoted or hateful! But, in your self-righteous indignation, you immediately jump and attack anyone that does not 100% agree with whatever you spout.

Whether you like it or not, a homosexual act is a choice. The individual chooses to be in that relationship. They chose to participate; being homosexual does not mean you lose the choice not to participate. They may desire to participate, but they still maintain a choice! They will have to come to terms with the consequences of breaking whatever "rules" of their religion.

 

[darkendless]

You guys are completely self-righteous! I NEVER said that being homosexual is not natural. I never said ANYTHING bigoted or hateful! But, in your self-righteous indignation, you immediately jump and attack anyone that does not 100% agree with whatever you spout.

These people attack bigots who condemn those for living their lives.

Whether you like it or not, a homosexual act is a choice. The individual chooses to be in that relationship. They chose to participate; being homosexual does not mean you lose the choice not to participate. They may desire to participate, but they still maintain a choice! They will have to come to terms with the consequences of breaking whatever "rules" of their religion.

Whether you like it or not it isn't. Why would anyone in their right mind choose to be insulted, isolated and hated by a bunch of bigots who preach hate from a book that is meant to preach love?

They choose to live their lives instead of conforming to oppression under the tyrant called the church.

Since homosexual behaviour is common in almost every animal how can you justify it being a choice?

I thik you need to take off your religion goggles before you get offended by a harsh dose of reality.

 

[Greyn]

These people attack bigots who condemn those for living their lives.

Please show me where I said anything bigoted. If you cant, then you are perpetuating the exact behavior I am talking about.

They choose to live their lives instead of conforming to oppression under the tyrant called the church.

Exactly! They choose to not associate with a certain church and live their lives the way they want to. If they want to still be a part of that church, then they will have to come to terms with whatever rules the church adheres to. The choice is still in the control.

 

[Madhuri]

But then sadly that baby would be found and raised by someone. This baby would then grow up into a strong man, and through some strange events would become King, and then unknowingly marry his own mother.

Oh, I love Greek tragedies.

Lol, did anything like that ever happen?!

People in Sparta did not adopt or raise deformed children. That's why they left them to die in the freezing cold mountainous area. Of course these tales make for good fiction. I have a novel called Spartan that is about a family that find the baby and bring him up themselves. I can't remember what happens after that...

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yes in my case it is a choice.

I'm bisexual, so I choose to have a bf. Same way I could choose to have a gf.

So yeah in a way acting on your heterosexual and homosexual feelings are a choice for bisexuals. And I'm so glad I chose a guy too!



Would be interesting to know what religions say about this.

Not very kindly about us bi's. :foryou:

I can't choose who I'm attracted to. It's that simple, and that wonderful.

 

[Caladan]

I can't choose who I'm attracted to. It's that simple, and that wonderful.

hahahaha exactly.
if it was up to me I would pollinate flowers.
the whole sexuality 'criticism' show is going on and on. but everyone in the world has been complementing each other on good looks this whole time. men to other men, women to other women, women to men and men to women. its just bodies. some, really good looking bodies.