Mystics Only: Extended Discussion

[blackout]

'tis.

some people don't need words for that....

True! but when words are necessary,
we often need to choose & use them WISELY.

Everybody SEES (understands) what they WANT to see.
What they are INCLINED to see.
Yet I can still be completely me around others....
even if no one else get's it (me) at all.

I have finally learned to REMAIN deep in the "Majick" world,
without REVEALING my True (hidden/masked/inner) idedntity
to those around me who think Disney has the corner on Magick,
and prefer to see supernatural arts only in the month of October.
(or in Harry Potter books)
In-cognito a-midst a muggled world.

What's the point of revealing what's sacred
to people who still can't see beyond the illusion maker's "spelling/casting/magick".
People who think the "ordinary" is.... well.... normal.

Choosing one's words "craftily" is a necessary art form.
As well, moving/creating fluidly
with-in a certain undefinable "mystique" ALL your own.

Ordinary people,
living in/of/off... the "ordinary" (ordered/higherarchical) world
will SEE and EXPERIENCE the ordinary. (dull/plain/"normal")
They require illusions, tales, stories, "fictions".... of "Magick"
all neatly pre-packaged in "boxed" sets. (tv, video, books, media/mediums)
for mass consumption.

Mystics/Seers/InVisionaries...
LIVE, see and experience Majic, Mystery, and the Profound....
personally and uniquely.
We live, see, and move on a whole nother plane of existence.
It is a solitary, inner life that manifests itself outward,
and then draws back within, for a whole NEW view...
in each and every moment....
like breathing in and out....the fluidity of life.
The Majic is EVERYWHERE,
as it is "noWhere".... (beautiful!)

(and yes, living "elevated" while "appearing" with change-ability
to the sences, sence-abilities of others....
is a HIGH art form.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As well...
those of the "serpentine nature" choose & use words...
to twist and control and DEFINE the type cast realities of the masses.
Only inVisionary skills as a "see'r" and a "spell-uncaster",
keep us from getting trapped in the "reality nets" of "BAD spellers".

Remember "media" = "medium".

Who is forming your VIEW of reality.
We must be VERY CAREFUL in this regard....
as your own PERSONAL view & experience of reality,
IS IN FACT YOUR VERY REALITY.

It is all you will ever really have.

In the "ordinary world",
people are EXPECTED to lay it down
at the feet of mediums and (high teck) idols.

 

[blackout]

To revel in something; to take great delight or luxuriate in it.

Excellent work with the word play BTW.:yes:

Awesome.
I "revel" in this RICH and luxurious revelation of meaning......:cloud9:


You are indeed a "mystique"!

 

[blackout]

Knowledge destroys and diminishes life even as it creates the illusion of building some thing - arrogance, idolatry. Unknowing is the antidote to the ignorance of knowledge and the blind arrogance that comes with it.

An amateur shouldn't work with a master's tools. He'll only cut his hands.

Ahhhh... and now we have un-veiled....

Un-knowing.

Amazing thoughts as usual Dopp.

 

[Willamena]

Revelation seems to me that it is a "flash-of-light" thought that then is followed by careful thought, because something else from elsewhere seems to cause it. Realisation seems to me a careful thought process that suddenly clicks and all the pieces fall together to make a complete picture that makes sense.

...you arrive at the... well... the realisation of it.

It is also interesting to look at the actual words.

Revelation - Reveal. something is revealed to you
realisation - realise - real. something that is percieved or made to be real by you (?)

Right. IMO realization is "to make real." When a thing is realized (by you), including revelation, it becomes real for you. In other words, it is the same thought but with the concept-label "real" appended.

 

[doppelganger]

Right. IMO realization is "to make real." When a thing is realized (by you), including revelation, it becomes real for you. In other words, it is the same thought but with the concept-label "real" appended.

Interesting, Willamena. Can something be "revealed" without being "realized"?

 

[Willamena]

What's the point of revealing what's sacred
to people who still can't see beyond the illusion maker's "spelling/casting/magick".
People who think the "ordinary" is.... well.... normal.

Because the sacred is not different from the ordinary, and the same process that reveals the ordinary to others can reveal the sacred to others. It's just a matter of choosing words.

 

[Willamena]

Interesting, Willamena. Can something be "revealed" without being "realized"?

Nothing can be without being realized. Even those things we call "unreal."

 

[blackout]

Because the sacred is not different from the ordinary, and the same process that reveals the ordinary to others can reveal the sacred to others. It's just a matter of choosing words.

I see the very same truth that you have stated here.

I guess I should have said,
"What's the point of revealing the sacred IN YOUR LIFE/reality"...
(ie... openly "reveling in" your "real-ized" vision/experience)
to others who will not understand it. They cannot see it,
and thus will project out... a DISTORTED view of the truth IN YOU.
They will only "explain your sacred reality away" (for their own sake)
by means of "church, superstition (fear), psycology, science, education"....
whatever. Whatever "type" lenses they view the world through.

 

[doppelganger]

I have finally learned to REMAIN deep in the "Majick" world,
without REVEALING my True (hidden/masked/inner) idedntity
to those around me who think Disney has the corner on Magick,
and prefer to see supernatural arts only in the month of October.
(or in Harry Potter books)
In-cognito a-midst a muggled world.

There's always more than meets the eye. Even in a Disney movie or a Harry Potter book.

 

[doppelganger]

Nothing can be without being realized. Even those things we call "unreal."

Great answer. You might enjoy a book by Herbet Fingarette called Confucius: The Secular as Sacred that delves into Confucian writings and philosophy in a similar way.

 

[blackout]

There's always more than meets the eye. Even in a Disney movie or a Harry Potter book.

Yes. There are layers and layers of "potential" truths in everything.
(awaiting "revelation"? realization in you.)

It's all where you focus. It's all what YOU see there.

 

[blackout]

Nothing can be without being realized. Even those things we call "unreal."

compelling.
I'm gunna sit with that one.

 

[autonomous1one1]

I see the very same truth that you have stated here.

I guess I should have said,
"What's the point of revealing the sacred IN YOUR LIFE/reality"...
(ie... openly "reveling in" your "real-ized" vision/experience)
to others who will not understand it. They cannot see it,
and thus will project out... a DISTORTED view of the truth IN YOU.
They will only "explain your sacred reality away" (for their own sake)
by means of "church, superstition (fear), psycology, science, education"....
whatever. Whatever "type" lenses they view the world through.

Greetings. Interesting thoughts. Do you have the drive to make your wondrous view available to others, even those who 'cannot see it' ? Would you say that one's being, true to itSelf, is revealing enough. Our being which comes from an unknown source to many certainly offers surprises now and then as we go about living that may make one with a conventional view do double takes.
Regards,
a..1

 

[autonomous1one1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by methylatedghosts
Revelation - Reveal. something is revealed to you
realisation - realise - real. something that is percieved or made to be real by you (?)

Perfect.
I second and ditto that.
and Yes, when you 'real'ize' something,
you make it real,
(no question mark about it!)

Greetings. A very interesting distinction that gets to a key point for discussion. Let me offer an explanation of why my previous post indicates the two terms point to the same. The 'realization' referred to there might be said to be 'the being realizes identity with the source of all being,' or realization of oneness with God, or in short 'Union with God.' The 'Union' is not something under the individual's control and must be 'revealed.' Of course, people realize different things all the time, but this particular realization is something that some people seek for very long times without success because it cannot be 'attained' without help. In the last analysis, it is a revelation in the same sense as one usage of the word "Revelation."

What do you think?
a..1
EDIT: Perhaps when used the way proposed here, Realization and Revelation should be capitalized and that would distinguish from the more common usage.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Knowledge destroys and diminishes life even as it creates the illusion of building some thing - arrogance, idolatry. Unknowing is the antidote to the ignorance of knowledge and the blind arrogance that comes with it.

An amateur shouldn't work with a master's tools. He'll only cut his hands.

I agree, but maybe I am unimpressed with mysticisal detachment from life because I’ve witnessed firsthand things that few Americans get closer to than their TV. I’ve seen Americans complain about how their steaks are cooked while all they had to do was turn around to see people eke out lives from the stuff they threw away. I’ve seen and been the victim of violence. I’ve been with loved ones so poor they literally sleep on dirt floors (mud floors when it's raining) and yet so full of life that coming home to my soft life in America was a real downer. I know what it is to be told you have cancer and I know what it is to be present at the birth of your first grandchild.

Just as denying dualism is itself a kind of dualism, preaching from the esoteric profundity of “not-knowing” is itself a kind of knowing and attachment to detachment is attachment. This is why, in my mind, the esoteric profundity of mysticism is no less sentimental fluff and pretentiousness than the “halleluiah and praise the Lord” mentality of evangelical Christians.

As you can see, I’m a very opinionated and presumptuous person. I accept that. I am anger when I have anger and am compassion when I have compassion.

I assume I am one with God, of God and in God, but find myself having to deal with right here and right now. I aspire to be more than I am, but I know that the quickest and surest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live faithfully every moment as a tadpole.

I love the ritual and symbolism of the Catholic mass, detest the emphasis the Mormon church puts on community and conformity, and spit on the Koran for no other reason than people will despise me for doing so. I think political correctness is stupid and hypocritical and has seeped into our lives without our realizing it--just note the many non-Muslims “offended” by my willingness to spit on the Koran defend putting a crucifix in a jar of urine is “art” or “free speech.” I despise the proud and self-righteous, too.

But, hey, that's just me.

 

[Willamena]

My first question is, "The modern mystic will understand that labels are essentially meaningless, but that doesn't mean some labels may well be applied regardless of our thoughts on the matter. So, the actual question is, if you do not consider yourself to be a mystic, then why not? Have you found any other meaningful label that others may appreciate?"

Since the rule "mystics only" was set out in the subject line, according to the rules of the forum, I would hope everyone responding here would use that label, at least loosely. I use it tentatively; I certainly don't know everything there is to know about the topic, very little actually, but the mystics I do know seem to be a group I can identify with. Another meaningful label that I'm sure others would not appreciate is "astrologer."

My second question is. "What do you think of what is termed "revelation" (in the religious context) versus "realization" in the personal context?

I know little about what is termed "revelation" in a religious context, but in the same vein I also imagine that it's not much different from the secular one. Revelation is what is revealed to a person. It is information. Realization is making things real.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

This is a continuation from my last post.

I am, therefore, I think--I think. Or do I? Maybe my mind is allowed to think until the chick is ready to hatch, so to speak. But if that is the case, the mind neither thinks nor is in control. Rather, it is the I that I am that really thinks and really controls--not only my life, but all things. If the I that I am the only real thinker and the only controlling agent, is there any reason for the mind to think that it can influence the doings of its source?

It is said that a mystic “looks within.” Is that not like the two eyes trying to see themselves with their own seeing? A mystic sees the inner life in the seeing and nowhere else. How, then, can there be a specific or practice or aim? One may be enlightened to the essence, but habits carry their own momentum that cannot be cleared away all at once. In truth, the bum you pass in the street may be enlightened while you in your pride may only think you are.

 

[Random]

The Mystic is one whose busniness and talent is the harness the power of the Word and the Image in unison. Given the appearance of seperation this requires often strenuous and detailed examinations of many and varied abstrations via the main portal of the realtionship between Self and World (the latter in this sense meaning everything that IS, externally). One is a reflection of the other. Via his breath and the somatic languages of his body, his thought and his emotions he may come to understand the Word and its power, and via his 5 basic senses and his intellect he may come to understand the Image and interpret both in such a fluid and clairitous way that as he sees he hear, as he hears he sees, as he touches he scents, as he scents he tastes etc.

Apart, the Word and the Image share a portion of control over him: the Mind untamed promting its own ideations and conclusions via the unfocused intellect. But together, united by the Mystics comprehension of the implicit meaning of the content of his experiences in their entirety, the Word and the Image become something else, a Third Thing, which is simultaneously no-thing yet beholden to him. The Mystic thus realizes that his own understanding of all he perceives is in fact the Third Thing itself! Except now the awareness (spirit) of co-creation has him, because he is conscious of the fact that there is no innate division, only a grand scale of Seeming-ness that some call Maya or "illusion", and he knows that Consciousness itself IS whatever consciousness is conscious OF. That's its content, which both contains and liberates him @ once.

A sense of time passing persists that perpetuates a continuity of motion in his mind and body, yet having no intrinsic value as such (being merely a construct of his thoughts and their forms via his imagination), Time ceases to affect him and attaining to stillness and silence he sees the world through eyes unsullied by it. He has now entered the Mystic state, a state of being wherein the truth of unity and Love become apparent to him, taking primary focus in his life on the interactive level of what he smilingly calls "Reality"...smiling because he knows he must consent to the agreed condition of what is shared by all who live...yet frowning for he can pierce the veil of Reality @ will and come to a way of Knowing that others cannot. But the manifest destiny that all living beings share and the underlying oneness that empowers him are now within and without him, in every walk of life, the Word is heard and the Image seen for what they are, not what he wishes them to be or desires to make use of them for.

Taking wisdom as his muse, his goddess, he lets the flame of his life be a candle lit in honour of her. And so, he is filled with joy and compassion which, though fleeting and transitory as all feelings are, sustains his soul in times of trial and fire. And he is content.

 

[Willamena]

A sense of time passing persists that perpetuates a continuity of motion in his mind and body, yet having no intrinsic value as such (being merely a construct of his thoughts and their forms via his imagination), Time ceases to affect him and attaining to stillness and silence he sees the world through eyes unsullied by it.

That's beautiful - poetic.

 

[Omnipresent Truth]

The Mystic is one whose busniness and talent is the harness the power of the Word and the Image in unison. Given the appearance of seperation this requires often strenuous and detailed examinations of many and varied abstrations via the main portal of the realtionship between Self and World (the latter in this sense meaning everything that IS, externally). One is a reflection of the other. Via his breath and the somatic languages of his body, his thought and his emotions he may come to understand the Word and its power, and via his 5 basic senses and his intellect he may come to understand the Image and interpret both in such a fluid and clairitous way that as he sees he hear, as he hears he sees, as he touches he scents, as he scents he tastes etc.

Apart, the Word and the Image share a portion of control over him: the Mind untamed promting its own ideations and conclusions via the unfocused intellect. But together, united by the Mystics comprehension of the implicit meaning of the content of his experiences in their entirety, the Word and the Image become something else, a Third Thing, which is simultaneously no-thing yet beholden to him. The Mystic thus realizes that his own understanding of all he perceives is in fact the Third Thing itself! Except now the awareness (spirit) of co-creation has him, because he is conscious of the fact that there is no innate division, only a grand scale of Seeming-ness that some call Maya or "illusion", and he knows that Consciousness itself IS whatever consciousness is conscious OF. That's its content, which both contains and liberates him @ once.

A sense of time passing persists that perpetuates a continuity of motion in his mind and body, yet having no intrinsic value as such (being merely a construct of his thoughts and their forms via his imagination), Time ceases to affect him and attaining to stillness and silence he sees the world through eyes unsullied by it. He has now entered the Mystic state, a state of being wherein the truth of unity and Love become apparent to him, taking primary focus in his life on the interactive level of what he smilingly calls "Reality"...smiling because he knows he must consent to the agreed condition of what is shared by all who live...yet frowning for he can pierce the veil of Reality @ will and come to a way of Knowing that others cannot. But the manifest destiny that all living beings share and the underlying oneness that empowers him are now within and without him, in every walk of life, the Word is heard and the Image seen for what they are, not what he wishes them to be or desires to make use of them for.

Taking wisdom as his muse, his goddess, he lets the flame of his life be a candle lit in honour of her. And so, he is filled with joy and compassion which, though fleeting and transitory as all feelings are, sustains his soul in times of trial and fire. And he is content.

Bravo :clap I live momentarily like this but I'm personally having problems sustaining the commitment. Regarding the post about knowledge earlier, if such knowledge is applied, then it becomes Wisdom. I am not a Wise person. I have knowledge but I'm not wise. IMO lol <<<< arrogant??? :help: