Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union?

[Revoltingest]

Could you explain "better management"?

Nazis were so darned efficient.
Soviets managed to starve even during peace time.

 

[Nietzsche]

Yes It's odd, I grew up only a couple of generations after the greatest devastation humanity has ever seen, and I didn't even know NAZI meant national German socialist party until I left school.
Similarly the USSR was the union of soviet SOCIALST republics, socialist first and foremost by their own identification,not the 'USCR'

...really? This argument again? How many times do I have to explain how painfully wrong this is before it clicks with you?

- Better management.

Bull-*******-****.

Nazis were so darned efficient.
Soviets managed to starve even during peace time.

What? Have you ever cracked open a history book? The Reich wasn't "well managed", it was a neo-feudal mess. At least the Soviet Union had well-defined spheres of competence and authority. No such thing existed in Nazi Germany. You had government organs and private organizations fighting for Hitler's favour and nothing else. I could write ten pages on how labyrinthine, confusing and insane the Nazi "system" was. This idea it was a cruel efficient machine is just that, an idea.

 

[Spiderman]

Statistically, communism is the greatest evil ever perpetrated on mankind. That doesn't in any way lessen the evil that Nazi created, they were just, fortunately, relatively localized and short lived in power.

Historical lessons stemming from both: Never trust anybody who says they need more power to look out for your best interest.

So, when you say statistically, are you referring to the amount of lives destroyed, the amount of people deprived of freedom, the amount of countries infected, and the amount of wars it caused that make it "the greatest evil ever perpetrated", or are there other statistics in addition that lead you to that conclusion?

 

[Spiderman]

...really? This argument again? How many times do I have to explain how painfully wrong this is before it clicks with you?


Bull-f*cking-****.


What? Have you ever cracked open a history book? The Reich wasn't "well managed", it was a neo-feudal mess. At least the Soviet Union had well-defined spheres of competence and authority. No such thing existed in Nazi Germany. You had government organs and private organizations fighting for Hitler's favour and nothing else. I could write ten pages on how labyrinthine, confusing and insane the Nazi "system" was. This idea it was a cruel efficient machine is just that, an idea.

SInce the system was insane, why did they experience such an "economic miracle" from it?

 

[Nietzsche]

SInce the system was insane, why did they experience such an "economic miracle" from it?

During the era, large-scale arms production could be extremely profitable...in the short term. You get a few years of massive success and then it crashes...unless you can find outside sources of wealth to plug the gaps. Like, say, invading neighbouring countries and taking their ****.

 

[Revoltingest]

Bull-f*cking-****.

It's hard to argue with such cogent reasoning!

What? Have you ever cracked open a history book?

Yes.
Have you?
Instead of puffing up with a sense of superior authority, tis better to just make your case.

The Reich wasn't "well managed", it was a neo-feudal mess. At least the Soviet Union had well-defined spheres of competence and authority. No such thing existed in Nazi Germany. You had government organs and private organizations fighting for Hitler's favour and nothing else. I could write ten pages on how labyrinthine, confusing and insane the Nazi "system" was. This idea it was a cruel efficient machine is just that, an idea.

I never claimed the Nazis were well managed.
Only that they're better than the Soviets....who (once again) did manage to starve millions during peace time.

You're getting too worked up over a mirthful comparison.
No objections to my claim that Nazies were better dressers?

 

[Nietzsche]

I never claimed the Nazis were well managed.
Only that they're better than the Soviets....who (once again) did manage to starve millions during peace time.

The Holodomor? I'm not sure you can classify a man-made famine as "poor management" if the goal was to make a famine.

You're getting too worked up over a mirthful comparison.
No objections to my claim that Nazies were better dressers?

I'm passionate about a very narrow selection of things. This is one of them.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

...really? This argument again? How many times do I have to explain how painfully wrong this is before it clicks with you?

.

...really? This argument again? How many times do I have to explain how painfully wrong this is before it clicks with you?


Bull-f*cking-****.


What? Have you ever cracked open a history book? The Reich wasn't "well managed", it was a neo-feudal mess. At least the Soviet Union had well-defined spheres of competence and authority. No such thing existed in Nazi Germany. You had government organs and private organizations fighting for Hitler's favour and nothing else. I could write ten pages on how labyrinthine, confusing and insane the Nazi "system" was. This idea it was a cruel efficient machine is just that, an idea.

What? Have you ever cracked open a history book?

Mein Kampf

Yes, I seem to recall you thinking the USSR was capitalist! Apparently I didn't find it a very convincing argument, must be my intellectual inferiority again!

but either way the point remains, people/ parties/systems that identify as socialist (pretend or not) have a very distinct track record when it comes to running societies- I don't need to tell you what that is.

 

[Revoltingest]

The Holodomor? I'm not sure you can classify a man-made famine as "poor management" if the goal was to make a famine.

That was just one famine.
I'm sure you know they had others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droug...e_Soviet_Union#Post-1900_droughts_and_famines

I'm passionate about a very narrow selection of things. This is one of them.

Good!

 

[Spiderman]

The Holodomor? I'm not sure you can classify a man-made famine as "poor management" if the goal was to make a famine.


I'm passionate about a very narrow selection of things. This is one of them.

So, you are Prussian correct?

It's hard to argue with such cogent reasoning!

No objections to my claim that Nazies were better dressers?

NO objections!

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I seem to recall you thinking the USSR was capitalist! Apparently I didn't find it a very convincing argument, must be my intellectual inferiority again!

There is actually a bizarre view that Soviet socialism can also be called "state capitalism".
Even RF shares this view in their definition of "capitalism".
This allows even socialists to post in the restricted capitalist forum.
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/definitions-for-the-restricted-political-areas.166790/
Words can mean anything, eh?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

There is actually a bizarre view that Soviet socialism can also be called "state capitalism".
Even RF shares this view in their definition of "capitalism".
This allows even socialists to post in the restricted capitalist forum.
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/definitions-for-the-restricted-political-areas.166790/
Words can mean anything, eh?

Okay.. do I get to be a "free-market socialist" then, just to confuse everybody?

 

[Rival]

This is hard to answer because the CCCP went through many eras, right up to 1991, whereas NS Germany lasted not even half of that. I answered that I'd rather live in NS Germany, because reasons, but I'd still take Soso over Adolf any day.

 

[Nietzsche]

Mein Kampf

Yes, I seem to recall you thinking the USSR was capitalist! Apparently I didn't find it a very convincing argument, must be my intellectual inferiority again!

USSR? No. Nazi Germany? Well, here's some quotes recorded by Albert Speer during his discussions with Hitler at Berchtesgaden.

(1939) "After final victory, private initiative of German business will experience its greatest moment"

and later on, during the early successes of the invasion of the Soviet Union;

"The further development of humanity through the promotion of private initiative, in which alone I see the precondition for all real progress."

Not exactly the words of someone opposed to free enterprize, is it?

but either way the point remains, people/ parties/systems that identify as socialist (pretend or not) have a very distinct track record when it comes to running societies- I don't need to tell you what that is.

Strange, I don't remember any of the Scandinavian states murdering a whole lot of people. Or Britain. Or France. Or the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, post-war Italy, Ireland, Canada..

Or really, the vast majority of states that have had long periods(and permanent changes made by) socialist parties coming to power.

 

[Jumi]

Socialism seems to be a scareword.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Strange, I don't remember any of the Scandinavian states murdering a whole lot of people. Or Britain. Or France. Or the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, post-war Italy, Ireland, Canada..

Out of curiosity, how many of these countries have you spent time in?

 

[Nietzsche]

Out of curiosity, how many of these countries have you spent time in?

Those specifically? Just Luxembourg. You'll forgive me if I find it hard to believe they're hiding a bunch of executed "undesirables" or "enemies of the state".

 

[Rival]

Out of curiosity, how many of these countries have you spent time in?

I live in the UK and trust me, thank God for the NHS. Seriously, the American system is just downright cruel. Europe rocks.

Edit: I've been to France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Also visited the U.S.

 

[SSDSSDSSD3]

I'd prefer Nazi Germany to the U.S.S.R, because they allowed the freedom of religion while Russia did not.

 

[Rival]

I'd prefer Nazi Germany to the U.S.S.R, because they allowed the freedom of religion while Russia did not.

Um.