Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union?

[Baladas]

Socialism seems to be a scareword.

It has become exactly that, and most who use it have little-to-no understanding of what it actually means.

 

[Baladas]

I voted Soviet Union.
It's an awful choice though.
I agree with many of the ideals that the USSR was founded on, but I hate totalitarianism of any kind. I certainly would never want anything to do with Hitler's death machine of a government.

 

[von bek]

I voted Soviet Union. I agree with much (though not all) of the ideology underlying the USSR. Plus, the Soviet Union has an existence independent of Stalin's brutal rule. The Third Reich is impossible to divorce from the racist ideology of Hitler and Himmler.

 

[Baladas]

I voted Soviet Union. I agree with much (though not all) of the ideology underlying the USSR. Plus, the Soviet Union has an existence independent of Stalin's brutal rule. The Third Reich is impossible to divorce from the racist ideology of Hitler and Himmler.

You make a very good point here.

 

[Wu Wei]

Well, I am mostly German by heritage, and my ex-wife, who studied nazi Germany, alway insisted that if we were under Nazi control I would likely be a breeder,... being 6'1" tall, blond and blue eyed...(but that was over 20 years ago).. but I would not want the Nazis or the USSR... I'd probably join the resistance....or move to China


But I do have a question about this...are we taking 21st century Nazi and USSR or Nazi Germany under Hitler and USSR under Stalin?

 

[RRex]

I'll take a Nazi over a Commie any day of the week.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, I am mostly German by heritage, and my ex-wife, who studied nazi Germany, alway insisted that if we were under Nazi control I would likely be a breeder,... being 6'1" tall, blond and blue eyed...(but that was over 20 years ago).. but I would not want the Nazis or the USSR... I'd probably join the resistance....or move to China


But I do have a question about this...are we taking 21st century Nazi and USSR or Nazi Germany under Hitler and USSR under Stalin?

Under Hitler or Stalin or their equivalents

 

[Spiderman]

This is hard to answer because the CCCP went through many eras, right up to 1991, whereas NS Germany lasted not even half of that. I answered that I'd rather live in NS Germany, because reasons, but I'd still take Soso over Adolf any day.

Would you Take marine Lepen over Soso

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay.. do I get to be a "free-market socialist" then, just to confuse everybody?

No.
Socialists may post in the capitalist forum but not vice versa.
That's just how it works!

 

[Spiderman]

I'll take a Nazi over a Commie any day of the week.

I can't say I fully agree with you , but I appreciate you being blunt about it.

I would say I prefer fascism over communism any day without hesitation. What makes Nazism so hideous to me is the racism and anti-Semitism , as I have met many Jews I found to be very likeable, brilliant, funny, and thoughtful people.

They typically think Christianity is simple-minded and simply false , but I can appreciate intelligent thoughtful people who believe that , if they can give an educated rational explanation for it.

it's very sad so many intelligent people were wiped out just because they were descendants of Isaac, (also they win so many Nobel Peace prizes.)

Anyhow, the reason I voted Nazi is because I don't see Hitler's bigotry towards jews as any more bigoted or disgusting as Stalin's bigotry towards Christians and religious people in general

Not to mention, if the ukrainians had not been Caucasian, people would say He was just as racist as Hitlah.

Stalin hated and persecuted multiple nationalities. I wish people and historians in our schools would more often recognize and teach that his bigotry was just as awful.

Stalin was commiting ethnic cleansing before Hitler.

 

[Spiderman]

What about lenins USSR?
g.

What about it?

 

[Revoltingest]

Socialism seems to be a scareword.

It has so many different definitions & uses.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, peoples concept of the soviet union appears to be completely the late stalinist ussr and that is quite the contrast to the leninist ussr.

Answer is a clear SU to me.

Yes I should have better clarified that this was a comparison between Hitler and Stalin.

A lot of people also Associate fascism with Nazism. I would prefer Lenin over Hitler , but I would prefer the fascist Dictator Franco over Lenin.

 

[Spiderman]

This is quite intriguing to me, what've you got on Lenin?

What ethnic killing campaigns might these be? Are you referring to Ukraine?

I'd advise you checked out the anti-communist debunk masterpost on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/wiki/debunk


Or those of certain outspoken political affiliations.


The nazi's were Christians, were they not?

Nazis have no justification from Christianity to do what they did,. They used quotes from Martin Luther to justify anti-Semitism, but they were very secular non-religious people on average.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies and never once Justified anyone killing a Jew or anything. He said let those without sin cast the first stone , and said put down your sword, those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

Lenin?
He created the Soviet Secret Police. He was infamous for "Red Terror" which involved torturing and executing members of the communist party and all sorts of others he didn't trust.

Countless Religious people were killed. He was a bigot.

Many died in labor camps and executions . Did he kill as many people as Stalin? No

I don't know how many people he killed , but quantity is less relevant to Quality , and he had the same qualities in his bigotry and contempt and intolerance for freedom or people he didn't like or trust.

People use very clever means and facts and produce studies to try to debunk Nazi atrocities as well, so when people debunked communist atrocities, I take it with a grain of salt.

Lenin not killing as many people does not make him less evil , but in my opinion he was less evil than Stalin or Hitler. But extremely cold blooded, evil, atrocious, bigoted, and bloodthirsty was he nonetheless.

 

[SSDSSDSSD3]

Um.

Don't get me wrong, I still prefer my home in the U.S. compared to either of these countries, but the lesser of the 2 evils is still Germany.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I live in the UK and trust me, thank God for the NHS. Seriously, the American system is just downright cruel. Europe rocks.

Edit: I've been to France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Also visited the U.S.

I have relatives in the UK who were staunch advocates of NHS, and one worked for them, until they developed a life threatening heart condition, at which point they went private to jump the 'queue' and avoid the rationing they were well aware of, not everyone is savvy or wealthy enough to do that.

The same thing happens with many Canadians, those who can afford it cross the border when something hits the fan. I don't think it's fair to have separate health care for rich and poor, but that's what is being implemented here also now under Obamacare.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Those specifically? Just Luxembourg. You'll forgive me if I find it hard to believe they're hiding a bunch of executed "undesirables" or "enemies of the state".

wealthy, market driven low tax/ tax haven economy- about as diametrically opposed to socialism as it gets in Europe

try cracking open your passport a little more! I've been to all the rest other than Luxembourg, I'd like to go there but I'm too cheap!

 

[Spiderman]

Could you provide any specifics for these people he apparently tortured? or any specific events for those killed.
This, may interest you.

For anyone who thinks the Soviet Union was not bad under Lenin:

""At Odessa the Cheka tied White officers to planks and slowly fed them into furnaces or tanks of boiling water; inKharkiv, scalpings and hand-flayings were commonplace: the skin was peeled off victims' hands to produce "gloves"; theVoronezh Cheka rolled naked people around in barrels studded internally with nails; victims were crucified or stoned to death atDnipropetrovsk; the Cheka at Kremenchukimpaled members of the clergy and buried alive rebelling peasants; in Orel, water was poured on naked prisoners bound in the winter streets until they became living ice statues; in Kiev, Chinese Cheka detachmentsplaced rats in iron tubes sealed at one end with wire netting and the other placed against the body of a prisoner, with the tubes being heated until the rats gnawed through the victim's body in an effort to escape.[30]

Executions took place in prison cellars or courtyards, or occasionally on the outskirts of town, during the Red Terror and Russian civil war. ...

....littered with corpses and soaked with blood. Victims killed outside the town were moved by truck, bound and gagged, to their place of execution, where they sometimes were made to dig their own graves.[31]

According to Edvard Radzinsky, "it became a common practice to take a husband hostage and wait for his wife to come and purchase his life with her body".[3] DuringDecossackization, there were massacres, according to historian Robert Gellately, "on an unheard of scale." The Pyatigorsk Cheka organized a "day of Red Terror" .....lack of a better idea," killed all the patients in the hospital..... Gellately adds that Communist leaders "sought to justify their ethnic-based massacres by incorporating them into the rubric of the 'class struggle'".[32]

Members of the clergy were subjected to particularly brutal abuse. According to documents cited by the late Alexander Yakovlev, then head of the Presidential Committee for the Rehabilitation of Victims of Political Repression, priests, monks and nuns were crucified, thrown into cauldrons of boiling tar, scalped, strangled, given Communion with melted lead and drowned in holes in the ice.[33]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror
I especially liked what they did to priests and nuns....surely Satan is alive and well.

Thanks for sharing the YouTube though

 

[Jumi]

What ethnic killing campaigns might these be? Are you referring to Ukraine?

They cleansed alot of Finns during WW2 and after in the conquered territory.

 

[Jumi]

Those specifically? Just Luxembourg. You'll forgive me if I find it hard to believe they're hiding a bunch of executed "undesirables" or "enemies of the state".

You're right. Such was not done in Finland although many call it socialist. Actually the winning nationalist side executed communists, the poor, trade unionists, pacifists and atheists by the thousands in civil war of 1918.

Though the reds also did manage to do the same to the "bourgeoisie", but on a slightly smaller scale

Spoiler: execution