Near Death experiences and the scientific method.

[Dan From Smithville]

Ok, simply to be in a coma and/or on life support, say for a day or more. Have you had this type of near death experience and had awareness?

Whatever NDE's are, they are a gap in our knowledge. Fascinating to be sure, but not characterized or understood at all. Like any gap in our knowledge, people will fill it with all sorts of ideas and beliefs and claim it means what they believe and want it to mean. That they believe is not evidence for what is believed in. Claims are not evidence for their own validity. That would be circular reasoning.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I can speak for you, because you haven't demonstrated any experience, in fact, that no one ever has. That is not to say that they are not real. Just the facts.

I never said anything about proving God or what spiritual knowledge is about. The point is that you are making circular arguments in support of claims and this has been demonstrated. Further supported by your efforts to avoid answering those questions about aliens. If you got some wrong impression, that is on you and not my fault. I don't imagine you are trying to redirect others, you were trying to deflect from answering the question.

Is belief in aliens evidence of aliens? Is belief in the spiritual evidence for the spiritual? You will not give a reasonable answer, so you do not have to. I already know the answer.

You are being silly, you do not speak for me, understand!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is pretty vague criteria. Not everyone in a coma or on life support has reported NDE's. And again, even if every one of them did have some sort of experience, your claims still remain claims without support. Someone citing a completely different claim for NDE's and no evidence has a claim with equal validity to your own.

There are different types of near death experiences? Can you list them for me and explain how they are categorized? I had no idea. Is it by type of injury? Age? How long? Life support/no life support? Coma/No coma? That is fascinating. How are types determined when nothing else seems to have been determined regarding this phenomena?

I can see that you are not ready for a reasonable exchange.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You are being silly, you do not speak for me, understand!

Is belief in aliens evidence that aliens exist? Is belief that NDE's are some sort spiritual experience evidence that they are spiritual experiences?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I can see that you are not ready for a reasonable exchange.

I understand. You can't answer, so you make your failure mine in order to slip away. How spiritual of you.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I can see that you are not ready for a reasonable exchange.

What would you say if someone claimed they had spiritual knowledge that NDE's are nothing more than biochemical and physiological response to severe brain trauma associated with dying? How would you prove them wrong?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Is belief in aliens evidence that aliens exist? Is belief that NDE's are some sort spiritual experience evidence that they are spiritual experiences?

Do you not know the difference between belief and experience?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I understand. You can't answer, so you make your failure mine in order to slip away. How spiritual of you.

Why would I bother to engage you when you claim that you can speak for me. It is a waste of my time. you have your beliefs and that's that!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

What would you say if someone claimed they had spiritual knowledge that NDE's are nothing more than biochemical and physiological response to severe brain trauma associated with dying? How would you prove them wrong?

I don't need to prove anyone right or wrong, I listen and make my own judgement.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Do you not know the difference between belief and experience?

I do. I also know the difference between believing in something you cannot support with evidence and the validity of something that you can. One thing I notice is that very often people speak of things as valid while being completely to support that validity.

I do apologize for being antagonistic in my stance. I have nothing against you or what you might believe. I cannot say one way or another that you are right or wrong in your belief. But claims about physical phenomena require evidence and claims of the spiritual have never been supported with evidence. Again, this is not a denial of them, just a fact of the matter.

I also know that perception is a part of experience and that can be altered by many factors including mood, mental state, and external factors.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't need to prove anyone right or wrong, I listen and make my own judgement.

That is all any of us can do. I do not think it is unreasonable to ask someone that makes a claim to provide the evidence and reasoning for their claim. It is not uncouth to point out the the basis for a claim is circular when it is circular.

I cannot prove that you are wrong. But you cannot prove you are right. We have nothing to test. All I know is that NDE's are a reported phenomenon with a lot of baseless claims that cannot be tested. I could claim they are evidence that people from the future developed a science that allows them to contact us in the past, but due to limitations in the technology, they can only do so through people at some point as they near death. Would you believe that? Does the strength of my belief in such a proposition make it more valid?

 

[Subduction Zone]

God is not mine, so that problem is resolved,

The reality I understand to be represented by the concept God is the universe in its totality, seen and unseen, known and unknown, and the universe exists so we can resolve the question of its actual existence as opposed to non-existence. Name calling such as "God is evil" is not evidence, so that is resolved.

You obviously thought erroneously..

So you do not even understand basic English. The phrase "your god" is short for "the version of god that you believe in". Now that you understand your error would you care to try again?

One more thing, I did not name call. You were the one that claimed that your god had evil traits. If anyone names called it was you.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I do. I also know the difference between believing in something you cannot support with evidence and the validity of something that you can. One thing I notice is that very often people speak of things as valid while being completely to support that validity.

I do apologize for being antagonistic in my stance. I have nothing against you or what you might believe. I cannot say one way or another that you are right or wrong in your belief. But claims about physical phenomena require evidence and claims of the spiritual have never been supported with evidence. Again, this is not a denial of them, just a fact of the matter.

I also know that perception is a part of experience and that can be altered by many factors including mood, mental state, and external factors.

So what is the difference you understand between the concepts of belief and experience?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Why would I bother to engage you when you claim that you can speak for me. It is a waste of my time. you have your beliefs and that's that!

I did not originally claim that I could speak for you. I responded to someone claiming I was speaking for them when I only said that you cannot demonstrate something. Rather than show me you could falsify my claim and actually demonstrate something, you chose this blind end to wrestle with. So far, you have not demonstrated your claims. Is that wrong? If so, please show me where you have demonstrated your claims. Did you answer the question about aliens, belief in aliens and that belief in them is evidence for them? If so, please show me where.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So what is the difference you understand between the concepts of belief and experience?

But first, let us finish talking about belief in aliens and the relationship that has to circular reasoning.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So you do not even understand basic English. The phrase "your god" is short for "the version of god that you believe in". Now that you understand your error would you care to try again?

One more thing, I did not name call. You were the one that claimed that your god had evil traits. If anyone names called it was you.

I don't believe in God, I know there is according to my understanding of the reality represented by the term 'God'. There is a difference between belief and experience.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So what is the difference you understand between the concepts of belief and experience?

Is belief that NDE's are spiritual evidence that they are spiritual? Once again, this might mean that any phenomenon seen as spiritual is validated. What would you do if beliefs you have are suddenly verified and contrasted to beliefs others have that might be in opposition to your beliefs?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't believe in God, I know there is according to my understanding of the reality represented by the term 'God'. There is a difference between belief and experience.

I agree. There are many differences between belief and experience, but in order to make objective statements about anything requires sound reasoning and reasons.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

But first, let us finish talking about belief in aliens and the relationship that has to circular reasoning.

Many people believe in spiritual knowledge, but some actually express it. .Many people believe in aliens, but they are not aliens.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't believe in God, I know there is according to my understanding of the reality represented by the term 'God'. There is a difference between belief and experience.

That is funny. I do believe in God. I just have lots of questions.