Need and religion.

[dawny0826]

Is there a real need for religion?

:help:

I don't feel that I have a need for religion, in an organized sense at all.

What I need is connectedness to God.

I would find arrogance in blanket labeling, when indiviudals can only determine the weight and value of religion and as to whether or not they reallly need such influence or they have a spiritual need for such nurturing.

Without organized religion to teach me what my spirituality meant - it would no less be there. I would have defined it on my own.

 

[Jeremiah]

If it's not necessary for you and Penguin to agree on the meaning of 'religion,' how can you declare that there's no need for religion?

Maybe he defines it as 'oxygen.'

I am sorry I don't follow. What does "if" mean?

 

[Jeremiah]

It also depends on the meaning of "need".

I mean, if religion disappeared, then all the people who make rosaries would be out of work. Is that a sort of "need"? Depending on how you look at it, maybe.

As long as you speak basic English I think I can manage.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As long as you speak basic English I think I can manage.

If you speak basic English, I think you can explain what you mean by "religion". I've heard the word used in all sorts of senses by different people, so I'd like to know the sense in which you intend it.

 

[Jeremiah]

If you speak basic English, I think you can explain what you mean by "religion". I've heard the word used in all sorts of senses by different people, so I'd like to know the sense in which you intend it.

Feel free to use a dictionary.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Feel free to use a dictionary.

Here you go:

re·li·gion [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

Again: what do you mean by "religion"? Give me a number from 1 to 5.

 

[Quintessence]

Feel free to use a dictionary.

Dude, seriously.

Tell us how you're defining religion. And if you're basing it off a dictionary, at least tell us which one and which definition in that dictionary you're regarding as primary.

Though as an aside, I'd note that non-specialized dictionaries are pretty terrible references for understanding complex words like "religion." They're an okay starting point, but dictionaries in general fail to convey nuances of meaning. This is part of why people are ASKING YOU to define what you mean by the term.

 

[Jeremiah]

Here you go:



Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

Again: what do you mean by "religion"? Give me a number from 1 to 5.

Pick one I really don't care. When I leave something open ended I typically do it for a reason. So feel free to tell me what you think in your own words.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Pick one I really don't care. When I leave something open ended I typically do it for a reason. So feel free to tell me what you think in your own words.

What I think?

I think that leaving it open-ended creates confusion. It results in people arguing about completely different things because they used the same word. I'm interested in communication and coming to mutual understanding, not frustrating, useless arguments (this bizarre tangent notwithstanding).

 

[Jeremiah]

What I think?

I think that leaving it open-ended creates confusion. It results in people arguing about completely different things because they used the same word. I'm interested in communication and coming to mutual understanding, not frustrating, useless arguments (this bizarre tangent notwithstanding).

And I think all this haggling over words is a big waste of time. Just use English.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

It also depends on the meaning of "need".

I mean, if religion disappeared, then all the people who make rosaries would be out of work. Is that a sort of "need"? Depending on how you look at it, maybe.

Yeah, I think the OP poster (Is that the way to say it, or simply 'the OP'?) needs to always stand ready to answer clarifying questions about the meaning he's trying to get at.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I am sorry I don't follow.

Yes, that is seeming more and more clear to me as we go along.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

And I think all this haggling over words is a big waste of time. Just use English.

There is no such thing as English. That's an illusion.

Perhaps you might ask me or Copernicus or another member who is trained in linguistics to give you a basic summary of the way words and dictionaries actually work?

You're welcome to start a new thread and ask me about it.

 

[Quintessence]

I think that leaving it open-ended mostly results in a conversation that lacks firm direction, because the answer to the question hinges on how religion is defined.

Say we consider religion to be exclusively organized and social communities relating to definition number one but exclude personal expressions and practices. With that kind of definition, you can easily argue that organized religion is not necessary for a large number of people, myself included.

Say instead you consider one's religion to be whatever offers a person deep meaningfulness in their lives. The kind of deep meaning that gives them a reason to get up and live life every day. In that case, religion is a need, because the moment you loose meaningfulness, you become clinically depressed and kill yourself.

Definitions. They're important. Very important.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And I think all this haggling over words is a big waste of time. Just use English.

Fine: no, it is not necessary to live the life of a monk or nun.

 

[Jeremiah]

Dude, seriously.

Tell us how you're defining religion. And if you're basing it off a dictionary, at least tell us which one and which definition in that dictionary you're regarding as primary.

Though as an aside, I'd note that non-specialized dictionaries are pretty terrible references for understanding complex words like "religion." They're an okay starting point, but dictionaries in general fail to convey nuances of meaning. This is part of why people are ASKING YOU to define what you mean by the term.

"Tell us how you're defining religion. And if you're basing it off a dictionary, at least tell us which one and which definition in that dictionary you're regarding as primary. "

But I already did, in fact I have defined religion more so than anyone else in this thread. And I also indicated my preference as to which definition.

What you are doing now is just a waste of time. I defined how I was using "religion"in a far more concise way than any of you have.

 

[Draka]

So it looks like no one can provide a real need for religion. Seems religion is something we can do without altogether.

No, you just didn't like the answers you were given so decided they weren't "real" so you could do what you came here to do in the first place, what you do in practically every thread you start or enter into,...dismiss religion as a whole. You're quite predictable by now.

 

[Jeremiah]

Fine: no, it is not necessary to live the life of a monk or nun.

Thank you.

I am still not really sure what you wanted out of me. I gave you five concise definitions and told you that you could use any of them. Please feel free to hold me to the dictionary at any time.

I leave things open because I am not looking for my opinion on religion, I know what my opinion is. I am looking for other people's opinion. But they don't need to defined it for me, I just want people speak their minds and tell me what they think. If I start putting unnecessary restrictions I am not gonna get an unfiltered opinion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But I already did, in fact I have defined religion more so than anyone else in this thread. And I also indicated my preference as to which definition.

What you are doing now is just a waste of time. I defined how I was using "religion"in a far more concise way than any of you have.

Exactly when did you define religion?

The precise definition is important here. The dividing lines between belief, religion, and culture can be very blurry. In everyday speech, it's common for different people to use "religion" to describe a belief system OR a community. I've also heard fringe-y definitions that don't match either of those.

... but if we just stick to the mainstream senses of the word, the question "do we need religion?" could be taken to mean anything from "do we need theistic beliefs?" to "do we need churches"? These are two very different questions.

 

[Jeremiah]

No, you just didn't like the answers you were given so decided they weren't "real" so you could do what you came here to do in the first place, what you do in practically every thread you start or enter into,...dismiss religion as a whole. You're quite predictable by now.

Sorry if I offended you, I am just speaking my mind.