New Evidence Found To Show Humans Came From Fish

[SkepticThinker]

If we're done talking in generalities, let's talk specifics. You are not here to tick off Christians. Why are you here?

As I said, "I like being exposed to a variety of different beliefs and opinions, as it keeps me from living inside an echo chamber of my own beliefs - it's mind-broadening. Of course, I'm from the camp that believes that I can consider other points of view without having to accept them."

 

[SkepticThinker]

They most certainly should be allowed to come in if they feel an impetus, a light, a calling, that draws them to a community of the religious. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who goes to a forum where everyone is religious, to disdain their practices. It's distasteful. I'm a Jew and my skin is white. There are many black Jews. But if I go to a black event, black club or black forum, I don't disdain everyone for wanting to live out black culture or worse--for being black. Nor do I spend reams of time on forums where everyone believes falsehoods, so I can enjoy the vibe. I don't camp out on Holocaust denial forums or Apollo 11 denial forums. What kind of person who disbelieves that garbage would?

Now, fortunately, if I post on an atheist forum and they all disagree, that's because I'm right and because Jesus is Lord and Savior.

Convenient for me, I think.

Everyone here is not religious.

 

[sayak83]

They most certainly should be allowed to come in if they feel an impetus, a light, a calling, that draws them to a community of the religious.

That's your opinion. I consider atheism to be a just another set of worldviews as theisms are and as members of society and community, free discussion about worldviews among members is quite fruitful as it aids in knowing other people and their mind and to connect with them. Talking aids empathy and comprehension and helps break down caricatures, prejudices and biases. So engagement in civil conversation is a virtue in and of itself for maintaining and growth of cooperative societies.

But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who goes to a forum where everyone is religious, to disdain their practices.

In this forum everyone is not religious. There is a very large contingent of atheists, agnostics and skeptics who have been long members. This is not a forum for religious believers alone. This is a forum where all worldviews, religious and irreligious are discussed and talked about.

"As a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another."

Religion here is meant as a shorthand for all worldviews that are being held, discussed and debated here. English, due to its Christian bias, lacks a proper word to include both religious and irreligious worldviews in one label. In India it would be termed "Darsana" - or "the way one sees the world and things beyond this world".

RF Rules

It's distasteful. I'm a Jew and my skin is white. There are many black Jews. But if I go to a black event, black club or black forum, I don't disdain everyone for wanting to live out black culture or worse--for being black. Nor do I spend reams of time on forums where everyone believes falsehoods, so I can enjoy the vibe. I don't camp out on Holocaust denial forums or Apollo 11 denial forums. What kind of person who disbelieves that garbage would?

You are mistaken. In the 1930-1970, when there was significant bias against black culture and way of life (including segregation, ban on inter-racial marraige) a forum where blacks and whites can discuss and debate their perspectives would have significant and motivated traffic, from all sides. Suchb traffic exists today for abortion and homosexual marraige for example, as well as continuing prejudices against blacks. In the early 20th century the same kind of traffic would exist regarding the place of women in voting, politics or the workplace (and continue to exist in conservative cultures). When diametrically opposing ideas are held by large number of people and thus cause significant social, cultural and political contention (people died in millions to abolish or preserve slavery for example), people of various ideologies will obviously be invested in talking with people holding opposing views.

Now, fortunately, if I post on an atheist forum and they all disagree, that's because I'm right and because Jesus is Lord and Savior.

How very close-minded of you!

Convenient for me, I think.

Actually you have my pity. It is for people like you with such supreme sense of close minded certainties that atheism and its arguments are the correct antidote. The kinds of closed-minded certainties that you have is like a hard coating of dirt and grime that often coats the windows of cars that have been out too long, and one a strong acid, like the arguments of atheism, to scrub the glass clean so that one can see again.

By the way, proselytization here is against the rules.

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.

RF Rules

Since you have stated that your primary purpose for interacting with non_Christians is conversion, maybe this forum is not right for you?

We will report you if you try.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I can help you here, if you wish.

There is no other subject area on Earth where 90+% of persons believe wholeheartedly despite the true facts, which is the claim of atheism, that we inmates are running the world asylum.

I was being generous with the 90%, of course. It's more. And if I came to the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of people were living in ignorance of true facts, facts readily available to them, I would proselytize to try to help.

Of course, I understand that Jesus is Lord, that atheists are either yet to meet God personally or have met God and are in adamant denial of God, and that most persons are not living fully according to the light of the Christ among them and in them--therefore, I proselytize.

If you are sure most of us are willfully ignorant of such obvious facts, I would think you would adamantly preach what you believe to convert us. I don't go to an asylum and tell everyone as I hobnob among them, not trying to change their mindsets, that I'm delighted with the diversity of mindsets and lifestyles among the insane. Nor do I delight in the diversity of illiteracy when I find it, I teach reading comprehension.

If you are correct that God doesn't exist, I would think you would immerse yourself in the echo chamber of atheists after a regular day of living amongst us crazy, deceived people.

Put another way, why come here to listen to another 1,000 people who need "saving" from "God". (Ironic, that turn of phrase, I know.)

Unless . . . you secretly wish to abandon atheism and trust God for salvation. You may not be cognizant of such a deep-seated urge, but it's there. Bless you. You are not far from God's Kingdom, surrounded as you are here by His people!

90% of the world's people do not believe the same as you do.

You can think whatever you want, but I told you why I'm here. You can believe it or not - I don't really care.

I'm sorry but the rest of this to me is just whining. Like I said, if don't like it here, with the rules as they are, I encourage you to go start your own board where you may be happier.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't recall we religious persons inviting atheists to moderate our opinions.

And if we were seeking you to moderate us we would seek unbiased opinions, not jaundiced opinions that call every debate resolution invalid on its face. Debates are held in public forums and often, the judges or audience vote as to the winner of the debate, pro or con. You would vote "no" or "moot" on every pro and con position.

Well, I'm a moderator of the website selected by consensus to do so by other moderators both religious and non-religious. The line I'm talking with browbeating isnt permitted to either side by rules of this site, specifically rule 8 for preaching/proselytizing. That's what I mean by moderation.

 

[Shad]

Again, I don't recall the religious persons of the forum nor religious persons in any kind of same religion or inter-religion conclave ever, ever, ever asking you good atheists of the world to chime in at our forums to denounce all our horrible arguments.

Irrelevant. No one needs an invitation to address a bad argument

If I want thought policed, I'll call you.

I never said your couldn't believe something. I pointed out Paley's arguments have objections

In America, we have separation of church and state, so perhaps you can state my horrible arguments elsewhere, perhaps on an atheism forum. This here is 'da church, da' synagogue, da' mosque, so separate if you would be so kind.

This isn't America, it is a forum.

PS. Your vibe wouldn't work in a family or any other social dynamic, either. "Hi, mom and dad, you're both wrong, so perhaps in the intimacy of your private discussion, where you agreed not to assault the opinion of others who differ, I can visit to assault your opinions and tell you how wrong all your arguments are."

You are the one dodging making grand claims such as secular philosophy's purpose is to take people away from God. That was a response to the fact that there are objections. You made accusations regarding a lot of people merely because I pointed out objections exist.

Put another way, thanks for nothing!

Yawn.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Could be - I have every belief in the Temple of Set, only inverted:

Jesus is King, Lord and God

The devil has a crushed head

God will always win and will convert and renew the world

Etc.

I'm real close, yeah.

Well I was referring to an unshakable belief in wild mythological claims and explanations, but ya..your thing too.

 

[BilliardsBall]

As I said, "I like being exposed to a variety of different beliefs and opinions, as it keeps me from living inside an echo chamber of my own beliefs - it's mind-broadening. Of course, I'm from the camp that believes that I can consider other points of view without having to accept them."

You're not considering them. That's called lurking or reading or browsing. You are arguing. I know--because you've been arguing with me for a while and are intolerant of my religious yearn for all atheists to leave the forum.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Everyone here is not religious.

No, SOME people here are religious, SOME are not.

"EVERYONE here is NOT religious" is not logical. This is RELIGIOUSForums.com. I'm highly religious.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That's your opinion. I consider atheism to be a just another set of worldviews as theisms are and as members of society and community, free discussion about worldviews among members is quite fruitful as it aids in knowing other people and their mind and to connect with them. Talking aids empathy and comprehension and helps break down caricatures, prejudices and biases. So engagement in civil conversation is a virtue in and of itself for maintaining and growth of cooperative societies.


In this forum everyone is not religious. There is a very large contingent of atheists, agnostics and skeptics who have been long members. This is not a forum for religious believers alone. This is a forum where all worldviews, religious and irreligious are discussed and talked about.

"As a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another."

Religion here is meant as a shorthand for all worldviews that are being held, discussed and debated here. English, due to its Christian bias, lacks a proper word to include both religious and irreligious worldviews in one label. In India it would be termed "Darsana" - or "the way one sees the world and things beyond this world".

RF Rules



You are mistaken. In the 1930-1970, when there was significant bias against black culture and way of life (including segregation, ban on inter-racial marraige) a forum where blacks and whites can discuss and debate their perspectives would have significant and motivated traffic, from all sides. Suchb traffic exists today for abortion and homosexual marraige for example, as well as continuing prejudices against blacks. In the early 20th century the same kind of traffic would exist regarding the place of women in voting, politics or the workplace (and continue to exist in conservative cultures). When diametrically opposing ideas are held by large number of people and thus cause significant social, cultural and political contention (people died in millions to abolish or preserve slavery for example), people of various ideologies will obviously be invested in talking with people holding opposing views.



How very close-minded of you!


Actually you have my pity. It is for people like you with such supreme sense of close minded certainties that atheism and its arguments are the correct antidote. The kinds of closed-minded certainties that you have is like a hard coating of dirt and grime that often coats the windows of cars that have been out too long, and one a strong acid, like the arguments of atheism, to scrub the glass clean so that one can see again.

By the way, proselytization here is against the rules.

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.

RF Rules

Since you have stated that your primary purpose for interacting with non_Christians is conversion, maybe this forum is not right for you?

We will report you if you try.

In this forum everyone is not religious.

I'm rather religious. But thanks for assuming I don't belong in the subset of everyone. Not nice!

Since you have stated that your primary purpose for interacting with non_Christians is conversion, maybe this forum is not right for you?

No, I NEVER said that. I interact with numerous non-Christians for friendship, pleasure, helping them, etc. Further, I said my logical reason to participate on an atheist forum would be conversion.

We will report you if you try.

How tolerant, how open-minded of you, to make sure I abide by the letter of the law. Meanwhile, the atheists here are proselytizing nonsense about God and nonsense about Darwinism and Evolution. One reason I believe atheism is a religious label--because I'm tired of atheists proselytizing it at this forum!

 

[BilliardsBall]

90% of the world's people do not believe the same as you do.

You can think whatever you want, but I told you why I'm here. You can believe it or not - I don't really care.

I'm sorry but the rest of this to me is just whining. Like I said, if don't like it here, with the rules as they are, I encourage you to go start your own board where you may be happier.

No, most people believe in God. And apparently most people believe in Jesus, including atheists. I hear you atheists shouting Jesus's name frequently.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Well, I'm a moderator of the website selected by consensus to do so by other moderators both religious and non-religious. The line I'm talking with browbeating isnt permitted to either side by rules of this site, specifically rule 8 for preaching/proselytizing. That's what I mean by moderation.

I'm a highly moderate person.

If atheism is a religious choice (not a religion) why are atheists allowed to proselytize here?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Irrelevant. No one needs an invitation to address a bad argument



I never said your couldn't believe something. I pointed out Paley's arguments have objections



This isn't America, it is a forum.



You are the one dodging making grand claims such as secular philosophy's purpose is to take people away from God. That was a response to the fact that there are objections. You made accusations regarding a lot of people merely because I pointed out objections exist.



Yawn.

I didn't write that " . . . Secular philosophy's purpose is to take people away from God."

You must be tilting at windmills.

Philosophy doesn't move men from God, men do. That is why you're here, to proselytize. You have said so yourself, you come here to dissolve bad arguments. Argue much with the atheists, then? They often have bad arguments to make.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm a highly moderate person.

If atheism is a religious choice (not a religion) why are atheists allowed to proselytize here?

They aren't. Without going to detail (it's against the rules) I've sent warnings and infractions to atheists as well. Atheists, Christians, Hindu, Muslim, left-hand paths, Pagans, and even Deists.
Nobody is getting special treatment. The rules apply to everyone.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

No, most people believe in God. And apparently most people believe in Jesus, including atheists. I hear you atheists shouting Jesus's name frequently.

Most people don't believe in the same god you do, as if you added up non-Christian religious populations together you'd get more than Christians.
Also using a figure of speech isn't a testament of belief. I say Jiminy Cricket in polite company, that doesn't mean I believe a small, conscience stand-in bug actually exists.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You're not considering them. That's called lurking or reading or browsing. You are arguing. I know--because you've been arguing with me for a while and are intolerant of my religious yearn for all atheists to leave the forum.

Don't bother trying to read my thoughts. You're not very good at it.

Do you have something to add to the thread other than whining about how atheists shouldn't be here?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, SOME people here are religious, SOME are not.

"EVERYONE here is NOT religious" is not logical. This is RELIGIOUSForums.com. I'm highly religious.

Everyone on this forum is not necessarily from a religious group. Some are from other groups.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, most people believe in God. And apparently most people believe in Jesus, including atheists. I hear you atheists shouting Jesus's name frequently.

Most people in the world do not believe in the same god that you do. That's what I was getting at.

I find your second point to be silly.

 

[Shad]

I didn't write that " . . . Secular philosophy's purpose is to take people away from God."

Sorry confused you with another Christian that does not like their opinion being questioned.

You must be tilting at windmills.

Nope, simple mistake as the creationist rhetoric is all the same

Philosophy doesn't move men from God, men do.

That does not align with common Christian idea such as the Holy Spirit.

That is why you're here, to proselytize.

Nope, pointing out some bad argument is not proselytizing

You have said so yourself, you come here to dissolve bad arguments. Argue much with the atheists, then?

I have. Take a look at the "definition of atheist" thread from a year or two ago. I was in the minority in that thread. I was probably the only atheist against legalizing prostitution thread and the only vocal no vote. However there is also a key difference between atheists and theists here. Most atheist are agnostic while most theist present gnostic or evidence based arguments far more. Atheists are not going around claiming X book is true, theists are.

They often have bad arguments to make.

Sure. Gnostics have no ground to stand on for example

 

[Jose Fly]

the atheists here are proselytizing nonsense about God and nonsense about Darwinism and Evolution. One reason I believe atheism is a religious label--because I'm tired of atheists proselytizing it at this forum!

That could almost be read as you saying that, on a board devoted to the subject of evolution vs. creationism, you're tired of people using it to defend evolution.

Also, you do realize that evolution does not necessitate atheism any more than say, erosion or chemistry, don't you?