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New scientist Gregg Braden

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Gregg Braden does not appear to be part of the discovery institute. Here is a brief summary of what I was able to find out about his studies:

Human by Design invites you on a journey beyond Darwin’s theory of evolution, beginning with the fact that we exist as we do, even more empowered, and more connected with ourselves and the world, than scientists have believed possible.

* * *

In one of the great ironies of the modern world, the science that was expected to solve life’s mysteries has done just the opposite. New discoveries have led to more unanswered questions, created deeper mysteries, and brought us to the brink of forbidden territory when it comes to explaining our origin and existence. These discoveries reveal the following facts:

· Fact 1. Our origin—Modern humans appeared suddenly on earth approximately 200,000 years ago, with the advanced brain, nervous system, and capabilities that set them apart from all other known forms of life already developed, rather than having developed slowly and gradually over a long periods of time.

· Fact 2. Missing physical evidence—The relationships shown on the conventional tree of human evolution are speculative connections only. While they are believed to exist, a 150-year search has failed to produce the physical evidence that confirms the relationships shown on the evolutionary family tree.

· Fact 3. New DNA evidence—The comparison of DNA between ancient Neanderthals, previously thought to be our ancestors, and early humans tells us that we did not descend from the Neanderthals.

· Fact 4. A rare DNA fusion—Advanced genome analysis reveals that the DNA that sets us apart from other primates, including in our advanced brain and nervous system, is the result of an ancient and precise fusion of genes occurring in a way that suggests something beyond evolution made our humanness possible.

· Fact 5. Our extraordinary abilities—We are born with the capacity to self-heal, to self-regulate longevity, to activate an enhanced immune response, and to experience deep intuition, sympathy, empathy, and, ultimately, compassion—and to do each of these on demand.

In this book, New York Times best-selling author and 2017 Templeton Award nominee Gregg Braden crosses the traditional boundaries of science and spirituality to answer the timeless question at the core of our existence—Who are we?—and to reveal science-based techniques that awaken our uniquely human experiences of deep intuition, precognition, advanced states of self-healing, and much more! Beyond any reasonable doubt, Human by Design reveals that we’re not what we’ve been told, and much more than we’ve ever imagined.

Fact 1. Provide evidence that the appearance of humans was sudden. (and what exactly do you mean by :sudden"? what time frame are we talking about? Are you saying that in one instant that there were no humans and then in the next second, the earth was populated with them?)

Fact 2. We have continuously found more and more examples of the stages of human evolution. What specific physical evidence is it you are looking for?

Fact 3. So what? This does not change the fact that humans evolved just like all the other life on the planet.

Fact 4. There is nothing to suggest any sort of intelligent agent was necessary for the fusion of two genes.

Fact 5. Many mammals and birds exhibit many or all of these same traits. Humans are not out of the ordinary in this sense, except perhaps some of those traits may be more well developed.

Gregg Braden is a writer of New Age type books who has claimed that human emotions effect the earth's magnetic field. He also claims that light travels through some sort of "ether" medium which is also a "general consciousness field" in which we all exist. In short, he is a New Age crackpot. He worked as a computer systems designer, but he has no training or expertise in the scientific fields you want to prop him up as a expert in.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This information seems to be all in the first two chapters... will get back to you sometime about these potentially scientific talking points..
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I will be too busy to do research for perhaps a couple of days, but will read through Ch. 2 of Braden and try to read Velikovsky and von Danikin when my finances allow me to.

If this thread were to lie fallow until that got fallow nothing would make me more happier.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
This is not the article I read, but it makes the same claim. From my understanding mitochondrial DNA tells the tale. Our mtDNA is human. Since mtDNA comes from the female side finding only human mtDNA in our genome tells us that there is no direct female line to Neanderthals:

Hypothesis Journal » Neanderthal-human Hybrids
Not convinced. It is entirely possible that the progeny trees arising from Neander moms and Human dads had at some point, only male children.
It is also possible that the hybrid females had child-birth issues making their progenies less likely to make it to the second generation. The male hybrids won't have such a problem.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I am far from being an expert in this, but one of the articles that I read mentioned this. I will see he if I can find it again.
Perhaps this?...

Archaic human admixture with modern humans - Wikipedia
No evidence of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA has been found in modern humans.[21][22][23] This would suggest that successful admixture with Neanderthals happened paternally rather than maternally on the side of Neanderthals.[24][25] Possible hypotheses are that Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA had detrimental mutations that led to the extinction of carriers, that the hybrid offspring of Neanderthal mothers were raised in Neanderthal groups and became extinct with them, or that female Neanderthals and male Sapiens did not produce fertile offspring.[24]
I had never given much thought to this previously. Interesting hypotheses.

Alternatively...
Male Sapiens did not find female Neanderthals attractive
Male Neanderthals did a better job of protecting their women​
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Not convinced. It is entirely possible that the progeny trees arising from Neander moms and Human dads had at some point, only male children.
It is also possible that the hybrid females had child-birth issues making their progenies less likely to make it to the second generation. The male hybrids won't have such a problem.

Not so. I should also have mentioned Haldane's rule. Quite often in cases of hybridization if only one sex is sterile it is always the heterogamous one. For mammals that means the male. We have an X and a Y. Females have two Y's. With a fairly good distant hybridization having sterile makes would be the norm:

Haldane's rule - Wikipedia
 

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
Gregg Braden does not appear to be part of the discovery institute. Here is a brief summary of what I was able to find out about his studies:

Human by Design invites you on a journey beyond Darwin’s theory of evolution, beginning with the fact that we exist as we do, even more empowered, and more connected with ourselves and the world, than scientists have believed possible.

* * *

In one of the great ironies of the modern world, the science that was expected to solve life’s mysteries has done just the opposite. New discoveries have led to more unanswered questions, created deeper mysteries, and brought us to the brink of forbidden territory when it comes to explaining our origin and existence. These discoveries reveal the following facts:

· Fact 1. Our origin—Modern humans appeared suddenly on earth approximately 200,000 years ago, with the advanced brain, nervous system, and capabilities that set them apart from all other known forms of life already developed, rather than having developed slowly and gradually over a long periods of time.

Modern humans did not appear suddenly. There is a long fossil history which shows the development of human features over several million years:

toskulls2.jpg


· Fact 2. Missing physical evidence—The relationships shown on the conventional tree of human evolution are speculative connections only. While they are believed to exist, a 150-year search has failed to produce the physical evidence that confirms the relationships shown on the evolutionary family tree.

The 200,000+ shared ERVs between the human and chimp genomes are not speculative. They are smoking gun evidence for shared ancestry.

ERVs: Evidence for the Origin of Humans

Fact 3. New DNA evidence—The comparison of DNA between ancient Neanderthals, previously thought to be our ancestors, and early humans tells us that we did not descend from the Neanderthals.

Neanderthals were not thought to be our ancestors since they co-existed with modern humans.

Fact 4. A rare DNA fusion—Advanced genome analysis reveals that the DNA that sets us apart from other primates, including in our advanced brain and nervous system, is the result of an ancient and precise fusion of genes occurring in a way that suggests something beyond evolution made our humanness possible.

Chromosomal fusions happen quite regularly and known natural processes are completely capable of producing them.

Fact 5. Our extraordinary abilities—We are born with the capacity to self-heal, to self-regulate longevity, to activate an enhanced immune response, and to experience deep intuition, sympathy, empathy, and, ultimately, compassion—and to do each of these on demand.

And? How is this a problem for evolution?
 

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
The conclusion that Neanderthals where not human predecessors according to mtDNA was published in Nature.

It's not that surprising since they are using 30,000 year old Neanderthal DNA and modern humans had already been around for 170,000 years before that. Full sequencing of the Neanderthal genome shows that we share a common ancestor who lived about 500,000 years ago, give or take:

Neanderthals and H. sapiens roamed the same regions of Europe and western Asia until the Neanderthals went extinct 30,000 years ago. Both research groups now have genetic estimates for when the two species shared a most recent common ancestor.

In the Science article, team leader Edward Rubin places that event at roughly 706,000 years ago. In Nature, the Max Planck group — headed by palaeogeneticist Svante Pääbo — write that human and Neanderthal sequences diverged roughly 516,000 years ago. Within the large margins of error typical of such analyses, these conclusions could turn out to be the same. The Nature paper also takes a stab at estimating the size of the ancestral population that gave rise to humans and Neanderthals: roughly 3,000 individuals.
Neanderthal genome sees first light
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Modern humans did not appear suddenly. There is a long fossil history which shows the development of human features over several million years:

toskulls2.jpg




The 200,000+ shared ERVs between the human and chimp genomes are not speculative. They are smoking gun evidence for shared ancestry.

ERVs: Evidence for the Origin of Humans



Neanderthals were not thought to be our ancestors since they co-existed with modern humans.



Chromosomal fusions happen quite regularly and known natural processes are completely capable of producing them.



And? How is this a problem for evolution?

I'd really like to see some response to this one point-

Modern humans did not appear suddenly. There is a long fossil history which shows the development of human features over several million years:

The author is flat out stating something untrue, obviously
and blatantly false. Not that it will be the only thing, but
it is enough.

Will our hero of the OP recognize that, and, having done
so, see why his author is of no interest or value?
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Alright, I will crap on the future statue of Gregg Braden.

But the point seems to not have been whether he was a trained scientist like he claimed, but whether or not his philosophy was good that we should seek beliefs that will help us behave as a human species. I think as far as this thread goes, the jury is still out on that.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Alright, I will crap on the future statue of Gregg Braden.

But the point seems to not have been whether he was a trained scientist like he claimed, but whether or not his philosophy was good that we should seek beliefs that will help us behave as a human species. I think as far as this thread goes, the jury is still out on that.

Shouldn't we seek evidence of what actually happened? Beliefs no matter how well intentioned can be interpreted to serve just about any agenda.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Shouldn't we seek evidence of what actually happened? Beliefs no matter how well intentioned can be interpreted to serve just about any agenda.
The way I look at it is that we have to test hypotheses in an order anyway. In this regard, we can never be completely scientific anyway.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Alright, I will crap on the future statue of Gregg Braden.

But the point seems to not have been whether he was a trained scientist like he claimed, but whether or not his philosophy was good that we should seek beliefs that will help us behave as a human species. I think as far as this thread goes, the jury is still out on that.

Philosophy built on a pile of crap may not stand.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Alright, I will crap on the future statue of Gregg Braden.

But the point seems to not have been whether he was a trained scientist like he claimed, but whether or not his philosophy was good that we should seek beliefs that will help us behave as a human species. I think as far as this thread goes, the jury is still out on that.
What is his philosophy. What does he propose in the book.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What is his philosophy. What does he propose in the book.

I'm sorry sayak83, I really need to read the book more to answer that and maybe I should read the reasons for the five statements after all. This thread got featured and I can't keep up!

We can keep doing experiments on things like evolution, but we shouldn't not do experiments that can help us feel and behave better.
 
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