New scientist Gregg Braden

[Subduction Zone]

Interestingly, maybe I don't concede the point about the well-preserved Neanderthal. I will look when I have a chance but I think what Gregg Braden was trying to say was that based on skulls or something people believed humans descended from Neanderthals and they had to concede that point.

Or am I just shooting myself in the foot?

Bang!

Yes, we did not descend from Neanderthals and they did not descend from humans. We had a very very recent common ancestor. If you have a brother you did not descend from him and he did not descend from you. But you and he are both descended from your father.

 

[sayak83]

OK they found an "infant - a baby girl that lived about 30,000 years ago! For reference the last ice age ended about 20,000 years ago." (She was very well preserved well in ice)

"WIlliam Goodwin, Ph.D. from the University of Glasgow commented, "It is something of a mystery how this child's remains were so perfectly preserved.... Normally you only get material with this degree of preservation in material from permafrost areas." Source: William Goodwin. "Rare Tests on Neanderthal Infant Sheds Light on Early Human Development," Science News (April 4, 2000). Available at Rare Tests On Neanderthal Infant Sheds Light On Early Human Development .

(They examined her Mitochondrial DNA)

"The results of the first studies were published in obscure scientific journals, which concluded, according to the Smithsonian Institution, that "the Neanderthal mtDNA sequences were substantially different from human mtDNA." (She was a Neanderthal). Source: "What Does It Mean to Be Human? Neanderthal Mitochondrial DNA," Smithsonian Institution, National Museum of Natural History website (accessed January 30, 2017). Available at: http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence...nd-neanderthals/neanderthal-mitochondrial-dna.

The conclusion that Neanderthals where not human predecessors according to mtDNA was published in Nature.

"The conclusion of their report was shared in the peer-reviewed journal Nature and directly stated that modern humans "were not, in fact, descended from Neanderthals." Source: Igor V. Ovchinnikov, Anders Gotherstrom, Galina P. Romanova, VItaly M. Kharitonov, Kerstin Liden, and William Goodwin. "Molecular Analysis of Neanderthal DNA from the Northen Caucasus," Nature, vol. 404 (2000), pp. 490-493. Available at: Molecular analysis of Neanderthal DNA from the northern Caucasus.

Everybody knows since 1970 at least that modern humans are not descended from Neanderthal humans. They are sister species contemporary to us, with whom we partially interbred.

 

[sayak83]

OK they found an "infant - a baby girl that lived about 30,000 years ago! For reference the last ice age ended about 20,000 years ago." (She was very well preserved well in ice)

"WIlliam Goodwin, Ph.D. from the University of Glasgow commented, "It is something of a mystery how this child's remains were so perfectly preserved.... Normally you only get material with this degree of preservation in material from permafrost areas." Source: William Goodwin. "Rare Tests on Neanderthal Infant Sheds Light on Early Human Development," Science News (April 4, 2000). Available at Rare Tests On Neanderthal Infant Sheds Light On Early Human Development .

(They examined her Mitochondrial DNA)

"The results of the first studies were published in obscure scientific journals, which concluded, according to the Smithsonian Institution, that "the Neanderthal mtDNA sequences were substantially different from human mtDNA." (She was a Neanderthal). Source: "What Does It Mean to Be Human? Neanderthal Mitochondrial DNA," Smithsonian Institution, National Museum of Natural History website (accessed January 30, 2017). Available at: http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence...nd-neanderthals/neanderthal-mitochondrial-dna.

The conclusion that Neanderthals where not human predecessors according to mtDNA was published in Nature.

"The conclusion of their report was shared in the peer-reviewed journal Nature and directly stated that modern humans "were not, in fact, descended from Neanderthals." Source: Igor V. Ovchinnikov, Anders Gotherstrom, Galina P. Romanova, VItaly M. Kharitonov, Kerstin Liden, and William Goodwin. "Molecular Analysis of Neanderthal DNA from the Northen Caucasus," Nature, vol. 404 (2000), pp. 490-493. Available at: Molecular analysis of Neanderthal DNA from the northern Caucasus.

Regarding Neanderthal, please see this nice article below that summarizes what is known so far,
Who were the Neanderthals?

 

[Audie]

Silly me! I forgot to click my heels!

Go forth, and sin no more.

 

[blü 2]

Go forth, and sin no more.

I heard they didn't have sin in Kansas. Is that right?

 

[gnostic]

Interestingly, maybe I don't concede the point about the well-preserved Neanderthal. I will look when I have a chance but I think what Gregg Braden was trying to say was that based on skulls or something people believed humans descended from Neanderthals and they had to concede that point.

Or am I just shooting myself in the foot?

The thing is Braden is outdated, and apparently so are you.

The last few years I have been too busy to read up on the latest discoveries of biology and human evolution as I did 12 years ago. Plus I wasn’t a biology student when I was at unis, so much of what I have learn come from textbook. And the textbook that I did read was from the mid-1980s, belonging to my cousin.

But even I know that humans (Homo sapiens) were not descendants of the Neanderthals.

The Neanderthals and Homo sapiens (Hs) are sister species, and contemporaries to each other’s; they are both descendants of older species, the Homo heidelbergensis (Hh).

And being contemporaries, as @sayak83 and @Subduction Zone pointed out, there were some interbreeding between the two species.

 

[Audie]

Oh and he's not a scientist.

A bit of false advertising in the title of the OP

 

[Audie]

I heard they didn't have sin in Kansas. Is that right?

Smokin' out of Kansas with the hammer
down*, I didnt stop to find out.

*can you do that with a Lexus RX?

 

[ChristineM]

A bit of false advertising in the title of the OP

Yes, but to be fair, gregg braden hints he is a scientist because it sells hit books, deceitful!!!

There us no evidence of a science education, no qualifications in a scientific discipline. At most he can be said to have held jobs requiring engineering altitude, as to whether he actually is a qualified engineer i do not know

What i found interesting is the op opening statement "Gregg Braden does not appear to be part of the discovery institute" id like to why @robocop (actually) include this. Was itbecause he felt he needed to excuse gregg braden because he's not of the caliber of loon the DI would accept?

 

[Audie]

Yes, but to be fair, gregg braden hints he is a scientist because it sells hit books, deceitful!!!

There us no evidence of a science education, no qualifications in a scientific discipline. At most he can be said to have held jobs requiring engineering altitude, as to whether he actually is a qualified engineer i do not know

What i found interesting is the op opening statement "Gregg Braden does not appear to be part of the discovery institute" id like to why @robocop (actually) include this. Was itbecause he felt he needed to excuse gregg braden because he's not of the caliber of loon the DI would accept?

hee hee. see below a similar sort of almost like ironical.
in the ed note.

Creation.com, quoting Dr. K. Wise, yec paleontologist


I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turned against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand.

[Ed. note: Although Scripture should be our final authority, Christianity is not a blind faith.]

3


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[robocop (actually)]

Alright, I appear to still have lost on the Neanderthal issue.

I still like the idea of trying to get modern society acting right by aiming at certain beliefs though. And I don't think he actually lied about the Neanderthals.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Gregg Braden does not appear to be part of the discovery institute. Here is a brief summary of what I was able to find out about his studies:

Human by Design invites you on a journey beyond Darwin’s theory of evolution, beginning with the fact that we exist as we do, even more empowered, and more connected with ourselves and the world, than scientists have believed possible.

* * *

In one of the great ironies of the modern world, the science that was expected to solve life’s mysteries has done just the opposite. New discoveries have led to more unanswered questions, created deeper mysteries, and brought us to the brink of forbidden territory when it comes to explaining our origin and existence. These discoveries reveal the following facts:

· Fact 1. Our origin—Modern humans appeared suddenly on earth approximately 200,000 years ago, with the advanced brain, nervous system, and capabilities that set them apart from all other known forms of life already developed, rather than having developed slowly and gradually over a long periods of time.

· Fact 2. Missing physical evidence—The relationships shown on the conventional tree of human evolution are speculative connections only. While they are believed to exist, a 150-year search has failed to produce the physical evidence that confirms the relationships shown on the evolutionary family tree.

· Fact 3. New DNA evidence—The comparison of DNA between ancient Neanderthals, previously thought to be our ancestors, and early humans tells us that we did not descend from the Neanderthals.

· Fact 4. A rare DNA fusion—Advanced genome analysis reveals that the DNA that sets us apart from other primates, including in our advanced brain and nervous system, is the result of an ancient and precise fusion of genes occurring in a way that suggests something beyond evolution made our humanness possible.

· Fact 5. Our extraordinary abilities—We are born with the capacity to self-heal, to self-regulate longevity, to activate an enhanced immune response, and to experience deep intuition, sympathy, empathy, and, ultimately, compassion—and to do each of these on demand.

In this book, New York Times best-selling author and 2017 Templeton Award nominee Gregg Braden crosses the traditional boundaries of science and spirituality to answer the timeless question at the core of our existence—Who are we?—and to reveal science-based techniques that awaken our uniquely human experiences of deep intuition, precognition, advanced states of self-healing, and much more! Beyond any reasonable doubt, Human by Design reveals that we’re not what we’ve been told, and much more than we’ve ever imagined.

Perhaps this article would be of use to you. Gregg Braden - RationalWiki

 

[ecco]

Not self-healing particles but organs.

From YOUR OWN link...

In laboratory experiments, particles have been documented to be in two places at the same time, to be connected even though they are separated by distances of many miles, to “heal” themselves and even travel in time!
​

Why link to an article if you haven't read it and don't understand it? Did you hope I wouldn't read it?

 

[ChristineM]

Alright, I appear to still have lost on the Neanderthal issue.

I still like the idea of trying to get modern society acting right by aiming at certain beliefs though. And I don't think he actually lied about the Neanderthals.

What did he say about Neanderthals? Im not an expert but have spent some time studying the sites of those that lived in the area i mow live

 

[ecco]

The only thing he claimed was scientific is that new light shows ancient cultures to have had healing techniques.

Sure ancient cultures had healing techniques.

• Getting into a sweat lodge and chewing some peyote will cure a lot of aliments.
• Smoking marijuana will ease pain and, for some, reduce seizures.
• Chewing cocoa leaves will alleviate hunger, thirst, pain, and fatigue and helps overcome altitude sickness.

What does that have to do with "intelligent fields of energy that connect everything from global peace to personal healing"?

 

[ecco]

If you have a brother you did not descend from him and he did not descend from you. But you and he are both descended from your father.

Actually, both of us descended from our father and our mother. Mom was a Neanderthal.

 

[ecco]

hee hee. see below a similar sort of almost like ironical.
in the ed note.

Creation.com, quoting Dr. K. Wise, yec paleontologist


I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turned against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand.

[Ed. note: Although Scripture should be our final authority, Christianity is not a blind faith.]

Audie,

When including quotes of other people, please indent them. I glanced at your post and, for a moment, thought you were stating that you are "a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture".

 

[robocop (actually)]

Alright, I can see he is not holding up to the current science. I still maintain that his philosophy of trying to find beliefs to help a culture has some merit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually, both of us descended from our father and our mother. Mom was a Neanderthal.

True, ultimately any Neanderthal came from a female Homo sapiens breeding with a male Neanderthal. Though eventually we get those genes from either both the male and female side.

I wonder if the daughters of the original Neanderthal/Homo sapiens breeding could breed with other Homo sapiens. Female Neanderthals could not breed with male Homo sapiens. If the daughters of those early hybrids could mate with Homo sapiens then one could already consider them "human" rather than Neanderthal.

 

[sayak83]

Alright, I can see he is not holding up to the current science. I still maintain that his philosophy of trying to find beliefs to help a culture has some merit.

Is there anything on the book about evolution other than the refuted Neanderthal thing?

On the worldview perspective, the knowledge that all of us living things are related by blood ancestry is a more profound worldview than one where we have been specially created and stand isolated from the rest of life.