Nice Guy Syndrome and Misandry

[InformedIgnorance]

Seems like a bad reason to try to start a relationship. Not to be harsh, but I'm not surprised it didn't last.

wa:do

lol neither am I, I was merely using that as an example of the kinds of relationships that women like to create with 'nice guys'

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Interesting. I posted an article somewhere on RF about Hollywood in general inculcating the attitude in men that they deserve beautiful women. Most of the blockbusters and classics are about men eventually winning the affections of the heroine - who incidentally is always beautiful and lacking any character development. Her story in the movie is irrelevant. The point is that the hero always gets the pretty girl, and the point which boys may internalize is that they too should get the same. One of the many issues involved is that real women don't look like Hollywood heroines.

Which is why I've said before - more realistic nudity on TV! The ugly, overweight, blemished, sad, overworked, overtired, infirmed in nude glory will go a long way toward body image acceptance. Okay, tangent over.

Heck - even Hollywood heroines don't look like Hollywood heroines. I remember a quote from Rita Hayworth about her experience with men: it was something like "the problem was that they went to bed with Gilda and woke up to me."

It's a fool's game to use a contrived model of perfection (or someone's idea of perfection) as a yardstick to measure reality against. A wise member here once said something to me that's stuck with me: "people don't fart on the internet." I think that's true of the images we're fed from popular culture, too.

 

[Penumbra]

Nice guys have a point. Women love rogues who treat them like c**p but abuse nice people. Not all women, of course, but this is usually the case. So blaming the nice guy for being spineless, submissive is changing the subject. Even if it is true that nice guys are spineless doormats, that doesn't give ppl the right to abuse them.

I don't think this is usually the case. I think that's a generalization.

Not being sexually interested in a person, and being abusive to a person, are two totally different things. If a man goes into the situation thinking he's deserving of sexual affection, and that failure to give it to him eventually counts as abuse or unfair, then the issue was all with him rather than with the woman he was with.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The truth is that women dig a confident man. Being nice and "sweet" is o.k. if it's matched with confidence and the ability to look a woman in the eye who's trying to throw her weight around and say "settle down sweetheart".

Being one of those nice guys who have had no luck with women, I often feel that one of the reasons for this is how I am perceived, I do not believe it is because they hate men, but rather because women tend not to view the 'nice guy' as a potential lover - but as a potential husband. The 'nice guy' is generally perceived as boring, not boy friend material - for this reason, they are the sort women are perhaps more likely to turn to when it comes time to marry after they have enjoyed themselves in the singles' market. I do not believe that such women hate men, or even hate that particular type of man - instead I simply believe that it is often a case of preferences.

For example I am a nice guy and as such am often considered the 'best friend' type (no I don't do this myself), I have been set up in the past to help girls get over abusive relationships, being a nice guy I am able to comport myself in a way that they are less likely to feel threatening, as a result they are able to recover to an extent from their ills. After a while however, that sort of 'nice guy' persona begins to move from the 'gentle boyfriend' to the 'nice but boring friend' perspective - an unavoidable slide.

Nice guys therefore are the type to attract those who have had unpleasant relationships in the past... or those that have been having their fun (tried to clean this up) and want to settle down now.

 

[Sunstone]

I dont - as I said I was set up (by her friends) because as a nice guy it was believed I could help her since she was afraid of most guys because of some horrible things in her past (it was not a recent thing).

Her friends might have been well meaning, but they did you a disservice.

 

[Penumbra]

The truth is that women dig a confident man. Being nice and "sweet" is o.k. if it's matched with confidence and the ability to look a woman in the eye

This was going so well until...

who's trying to throw her weight around and say "settle down sweetheart".

...the ball was totally dropped.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The truth is that women dig a confident man. Being nice and "sweet" is o.k. if it's matched with confidence and the ability to look a woman in the eye who's trying to throw her weight around and say "settle down sweetheart".

A word of advice: don't try that with my mother. She's not that big and not a violent person by nature, but she'd probably punch you in the throat for saying something like that to her.

BTW: there's a big difference between being confident and demeaning your partner.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

The truth is that women dig a confident man. Being nice and "sweet" is o.k. if it's matched with confidence and the ability to look a woman in the eye who's trying to throw her weight around and say "settle down sweetheart".

Now, take all instances of "woman" and "man" and switch them. :yes:

 

[Chisti]

I don't think this is usually the case. I think that's a generalization.

Not being sexually interested in a person, and being abusive to a person, are two totally different things. If a man goes into the situation thinking he's deserving of sexual affection, and that failure to give it to him eventually counts as abuse or unfair, then the issue was all with him rather than with the woman he was with.

I wasn't talking about sex at all. I didn't even bring it up, you did. I am only referring to behavior, social interactions etc.

 

[Sunstone]

BTW: there's a big difference between being confident and demeaning your partner.

The distinction seems to be lost on some people.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Her friends might have been well meaning, but they did you a disservice.

I knew that before hand; that is part of being the 'nice guy,' being nice even though you know you are getting a raw deal. *shrugs*

A word of advice: don't try that with my mother. She's not that big and not a violent person by nature, but she'd probably punch you in the throat for saying something like that to her.

BTW: there's a big difference between being confident and demeaning your partner.

Hahaha true - which is fine if the difference between the two is fixed... the problem it changes from one moment to the next depending on the woman and the situation. For the 'nice guy' (who avoids upsetting or demeaning people) that means that such a behaviour will be perceived as quite possibly (because it is never certain) causing such upset and is therefore avoided lol

 

[Penumbra]

I wasn't talking about sex at all. I didn't even bring it up, you did. I am only referring to behavior, social interactions etc.

What sort of behavior are you specifically referring to when you say that it is usually the case that women abuse nice people?

 

[Me Myself]

It always is. And it's all about character.

He means that women **** ** too.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Most people abuse nice people, it has nothing to do with gender, it has to do with the perception that the person is either willing to help or take the flak etc, or is not going to do anything about it because they are 'nice' and will therefore avoid conflict.

 

[Sunstone]

Women love rogues who treat them like c**p but abuse nice people.

There are far too many decent women in this world for you to be wasting your time on the freak shows.

 

[Chisti]

What sort of behavior are you specifically referring to when you say that it is usually the case that women abuse nice people?

Any nonsexual relationship, could be friendship, normal conversations, social interactions, anything. I am not talking about guys trying to be nice so thst eventually they can get the girl. I am talking about guys who are by nature soft, gentle, and hence perceived as weak - and treated accordingly.

 

[Me Myself]

Most people abuse nice people, it has nothing to do with gender, it has to do with the perception that the person is either willing to help or take the flak etc, or is not going to do anything about it because they are 'nice' and will therefore avoid conflict.

One of the smartest if not the smartest and more relevant thing I've read about here. Least to MO

 

[Chisti]

Most people abuse nice people, it has nothing to do with gender, it has to do with the perception that the person is either willing to help or take the flak etc, or is not going to do anything about it because they are 'nice' and will therefore avoid conflict.

I agree, but I mentioned women because they often complain about men being rude and nasty, and wish they could come across gentle people.

 

[Penumbra]

Any nonsexual relationship, could be friendship, normal conversations, social interactions, anything. I am not talking about guys trying to be nice so thst eventually they can get the girl. I am talking about guys who are by nature soft, gentle, and hence perceived as weak - and treated accordingly.

That didn't answer the question, though:

What sort of behavior are you specifically referring to when you say that it is usually the case that women abuse nice people?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I knew that before hand; that is part of being the 'nice guy,' being nice even though you know you are getting a raw deal. *shrugs*

Hahaha true - which is fine if the difference between the two is fixed... the problem it changes from one moment to the next depending on the woman and the situation. For the 'nice guy' (who avoids upsetting or demeaning people) that means that such a behaviour will be perceived as quite possibly (because it is never certain) causing such upset and is therefore avoided lol

I'm saying that it's not going to upset the lady at all if you prevent her from throwing her weight around/being bossy assuming you do it in a tactful way that works for you. On the contrary, you're going to make her feel safe. She's looking for a man who can take charge if need be