Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals rules that voter registration must have proof of citizenship

[We Never Know]

I still don't understand your objection - as mentioned, there are potential problems with any sort of compulsory system but those problems are not inherent and depend on the specifics. None of what you talk about here would be necessary to implement with mandatory voting. I'm pretty sure neither Costa Rica nor Australia have armed government officials going around to the homes of citizens demanding their ballots and that they be marked only with the "correct" candidates or face punishment. If they did, sure, that'd be authoritarianism. But neither mandatory taxation nor mandatory voting is inherently authoritarian. Again, I don't see the wisdom in throwing out the seeds with the soil.

Still not for making it to where people have to vote but did do a little searching after your post and read these two articles.

Political philosopher argues how mandatory voting could impact U.S.

Political philosopher argues how mandatory voting could impact U.S.

UB's Alexandra Opera has studied this topic.

spectrumlocalnews.com

Stanford political scientist makes the case for mandatory voting

The case for mandatory voting

Elections play a distinctive role for strengthening democracy and voting is a pivotal part of that process, said Stanford political science scholar Emilee Chapman, who in a new paper makes the case for universal participation through mandatory voting.

news.stanford.edu

 

[Quintessence]

Still not for making it to where people have to vote but did do a little searching after your post and read these two articles.

Political philosopher argues how mandatory voting could impact U.S.

Political philosopher argues how mandatory voting could impact U.S.

UB's Alexandra Opera has studied this topic.

spectrumlocalnews.com

Stanford political scientist makes the case for mandatory voting

The case for mandatory voting

Elections play a distinctive role for strengthening democracy and voting is a pivotal part of that process, said Stanford political science scholar Emilee Chapman, who in a new paper makes the case for universal participation through mandatory voting.

news.stanford.edu

Yeah, as a country I don't think the U.S. is ready for mandatory voting... but it's a good direction and option to keep on the table and aspire to where implemented well and wisely. I'm tired of the attempts to disenfranchise voters or making the process harder or more complicated than it needs to be. Then again, we've got the same problem with taxes, so... I'll be honest that I'm not particularly optimistic that the U.S. would implement mandatory voting well at the present time (hence I don't think we're ready for it yet).

 

[Twilight Hue]

I still don't understand your objection - as mentioned, there are potential problems with any sort of compulsory system but those problems are not inherent and depend on the specifics. None of what you talk about here would be necessary to implement with mandatory voting. I'm pretty sure neither Costa Rica nor Australia have armed government officials going around to the homes of citizens demanding their ballots and that they be marked only with the "correct" candidates or face punishment. If they did, sure, that'd be authoritarianism. But neither mandatory taxation nor mandatory voting is inherently authoritarian. Again, I don't see the wisdom in throwing out the seeds with the soil.

If there is a civic duty of compulsory voting and I'm quite sure it's equally a national civic duty to be compulsed into the military. That would round out things nicely enough.

 

[Kathryn]

Because you want to drive, and they don't. You're talking about a driver's license, not a voter ID. If you don't need to drive, you don't have to go through what you did.

Au contraire. I swear, it's like no one wants to actually WORK anymore. I don't get it. For instance, you'd think that people would WANT people to be able to get a state ID or DL, but instead, they are literally setting up outside the DMV and weeding people OUT rather than actually helping people. Just like today - I bought a TV what, four days ago? Anyway, when I bought it, I signed up to have it installed, and PAID FOR THE INSTALLATION - on the condition it be installed MONDAY AFTERNOON, which the store made a note of. So I got a text message saying they would install the TV between 7:30 am and 11:30 am Monday. No, they will not - I will be out of pocket from about 10:00 till about noon. Completely out of pocket. I told the store this and they did take notes. So I had to bump the appt till Tuesday, when I actually have a hair appt Tuesday afternoon but I may be able to reschedule that, who knows. Nearly certain it won't be Tuesday morning because that would just be too appropriate. Anyway. Craziness. Stupidity. Grrrrr......

By the way, I don't WANT to drive, I need to drive. Differences. But the process is basically the same for either a DL or a state ID.

 

[Kathryn]

The license itself doesn't make any one drive better. If you lost your license today would you automatically become a worse driver? You would be illegal but I doubt worse.

Hey, it does in many states force people to learn how to parallel park.

 

[Magic Man]

Au contraire. I swear, it's like no one wants to actually WORK anymore. I don't get it. For instance, you'd think that people would WANT people to be able to get a state ID or DL, but instead, they are literally setting up outside the DMV and weeding people OUT rather than actually helping people. Just like today - I bought a TV what, four days ago? Anyway, when I bought it, I signed up to have it installed, and PAID FOR THE INSTALLATION - on the condition it be installed MONDAY AFTERNOON, which the store made a note of. So I got a text message saying they would install the TV between 7:30 am and 11:30 am Monday. No, they will not - I will be out of pocket from about 10:00 till about noon. Completely out of pocket. I told the store this and they did take notes. So I had to bump the appt till Tuesday, when I actually have a hair appt Tuesday afternoon but I may be able to reschedule that, who knows. Nearly certain it won't be Tuesday morning because that would just be too appropriate. Anyway. Craziness. Stupidity. Grrrrr......

By the way, I don't WANT to drive, I need to drive. Differences. But the process is basically the same for either a DL or a state ID.

Well, that sure was a lot of words.

I have no idea what "wanting to work anymore" has to do with anything. We're talking about people who have to work so much that they have trouble finding time to get a picture ID. In other words, you basically just used this as an opportunity to go on a boomer rant about "kids these days".

The bottom line remains, you understand how hard it can be to get a picture ID, so you should understand that we shouldn't put others through that for no good reason. Since there's no actual problem that a voter ID would solve, then forcing people to get one is a bad idea.

 

[Magic Man]

Break the laws and like voting it can be taken away

Huh?

I didn't say getting. If you lost your license today would you automatically become a worse driver? You would be illegal but I doubt worse.


The government should issue a voting ID to every US citizens who is qualified to vote.

The license itself doesn't make any one drive better. If you lost your license today would you automatically become a worse driver? You would be illegal but I doubt worse.

Getting a license makes you a better driver. It forces you to learn to drive the proper way so you can demonstrate that ability. What would happen if I personally lost my license today is irrelevant.

If the government wants to issue a picture ID to ever voter, go ahead, but they'd have to do it with no effort or payment from the voters. If it takes anything at all from the voters, then it's not a good idea.

 

[Kathryn]

Well, that sure was a lot of words.

I have no idea what "wanting to work anymore" has to do with anything. We're talking about people who have to work so much that they have trouble finding time to get a picture ID. In other words, you basically just used this as an opportunity to go on a boomer rant about "kids these days".

The bottom line remains, you understand how hard it can be to get a picture ID, so you should understand that we shouldn't put others through that for no good reason. Since there's no actual problem that a voter ID would solve, then forcing people to get one is a bad idea.

You and I fundamentally disagree. By the way, I never used the term "kids these days" but you sure did.

 

[We Never Know]

Huh?

Breaking laws can cause you to lose your license.
Breaking laws can cause you to lose your right to vote

Getting a license makes you a better driver. It forces you to learn to drive the proper way so you can demonstrate that ability. What would happen if I personally lost my license today is irrelevant.

You learn to drive to get your license. Having a drivers license doesn't make anyone a good driver or drive better.

If the government wants to issue a picture ID to ever voter, go ahead, but they'd have to do it with no effort or payment from the voters. If it takes anything at all from the voters, then it's not a good idea.

It could be looked into by the government.

 

[Magic Man]

You and I fundamentally disagree. By the way, I never used the term "kids these days" but you sure did.

Yes, we do. I recognize how hard it is for some people to get a picture ID and that getting such a thing in order to vote is pointless, since there's no actual voter fraud that it would combat. You think because you had to go through a lot of hassle to get a driver's license, so you could drive (not so you could vote), others should have to do that not so they can drive but so they can vote.

It's the "Well, I had it bad, so everyone else should too" mentality, rather than the "I had it bad, so I don't want others to have to go through what I did" mentality, especially since the people would have to go through that for a very different reason than you did anyway.

Also, of course you didn't say "kids these day". I was describing the kind of thing you were doing, not quoting you.

 

[Magic Man]

Breaking laws can cause you to lose your license.
Breaking laws can cause you to lose your right to vote

And?

You learn to drive to get your license. Having a drivers license doesn't make anyone a good driver or drive better.

Yes, it does. It means you learned how to drive and demonstrated proficiency in order to get the license.

It could be looked into by the government.

It would be a monumental task, and since it's unnecessary, I'd rather they work on other things that will actually have an effect on society.

 

[Revoltingest]

Also, of course you didn't say "kids these day". I was describing the kind of thing you were doing, not quoting you.

Yet another example of how you kids these
days have no respect for your elders.

BTW, if voting were made mandatory,
my ODD would kick in, so that I might
refuse to vote.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, we do. I recognize how hard it is for some people to get a picture ID and that getting such a thing in order to vote is pointless, since there's no actual voter fraud that it would combat. You think because you had to go through a lot of hassle to get a driver's license, so you could drive (not so you could vote), others should have to do that not so they can drive but so they can vote.

It's the "Well, I had it bad, so everyone else should too" mentality, rather than the "I had it bad, so I don't want others to have to go through what I did" mentality, especially since the people would have to go through that for a very different reason than you did anyway.

Also, of course you didn't say "kids these day". I was describing the kind of thing you were doing, not quoting you.

I guess the quotation marks threw me.

By the way, I never said that others should go through what I had to go through in order to get a photo ID, but honestly, I feel like the system is broken. This might be a way to fix a small part of it and I am all for that.

 

[Quintessence]

If there is a civic duty of compulsory voting and I'm quite sure it's equally a national civic duty to be compulsed into the military. That would round out things nicely enough.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make when we were not discussing compulsory military service and it is quite obvious that compulsory military service does not have to be attached alongside any other form of compulsory activity. Just like mandatory taxes don't have to be paired with mandatory voting... and both of those systems can be set up in a variety of ways within a society.

 

[Magic Man]

I guess the quotation marks threw me.

By the way, I never said that others should go through what I had to go through in order to get a photo ID, but honestly, I feel like the system is broken. This might be a way to fix a small part of it and I am all for that.

What system is broken?

 

[Kathryn]

What system is broken?

The DL/ID system for starters.

 

[Kfox]

There's been rarely and hardly any trickery as it is, certainly not enough to throw an election.

There is no way of knowing because in many of the Sanctuary cities, the people who are tasked with enforcing this law are the same people who have no problem with breaking this law.

It's likely to disenfranchise many minority voters.

In what way does this effect minority voters that it does not effect non-minority voters?