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Nityananda, Sri Chaitanya's associate, Gaudiya Vaishnava saint
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Shantanu
Well-Known Member
In this reference (Jagannath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) it says, 'Jagannath is considered the epitome of Tantric worship.[30] Jagannath is venerated as Bhairava or the Hindu God Shiva the consort of Goddess Vimala by Shaivites and Shakta sects.[33] Even the priests of Jagannath Temple at Puri belong to the Shakta sect, although the Vaishnava sect's influence predominates.[35] As part of the triad Balabhadra is also considered to be Shiva and Subhadra a manifestation of Durga.[36] Jagannath is said to assume the form of any God to satisfy his devotee's desire.[29] In the Bhagavata Purana the Sage Markandeya established that Purushottama Jagannath and Shiva are one.[37] Jagannath in his Hathi Besha (elephant form) has been venerated by devotees like Ganapati Bhatta of Maharashtra as the God Ganesh.[29].'
Since Sri Krishna is only known to us through the shastras and direct avatars, and does not assume the form of any other god to satisfy his devotees desires, Jagannath would appear to be an imposter God created by the tamasic guna consciousness deity Shiva to rival Sri Krishna.
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Honestly, Shantanu, your understanding of what the Gita says is flawed. No other Acharyas has ever said that Lord Krishna alone is the "Supreme Personality of Godhead" and that Vishnu is just an inferior incarnation. Four armed form of Lord can be called Krishna, and two armed form with flute can be called Narayana.
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Author of 'Chaitanya Charitamruta' said. We've plenty of references in Purana stating Krishna is Amsha Avatara of Vishnu, yet they say other way around. I think this is quite absurd.
Actually, Krishna is the amsa of the amsa of Narayana.
Narayana----Aniruddha------Krishna
But this doesn't mean that Krishna is inferior to Sri Aniruddha and Sri Narayana. Krishna is completely Narayana.
Although, now that I think about it, Lord Narayana may have directly descended as Lord Krishna.
What do you mean by Amsha? And also, How can be there Amsha of FORM? 'Amsha of Vishnu ' can also mean 'Amsha of Nirguna Vishnu beyond form'
You are putting something that belongs in Parmarthika into Vyavaharika. If you want to talk about a Nirguna Brahman, then this entity cannot take incarnations and what not. There is just Nirguna Brahman. That's Parmarthika.
If you want to talk about incarnations and amshas, then you are in the Vyavaharika. And thus, there is no "Nirguna Brahman". This is my understanding.
Through Maya it's quite possible to emerge Avatara from Nirguna. Bhagavan Krishna himself declared in Gita 'I come in human form through Maya' Through Maya, Sat can become asat. What's not possible through Maya.
'Amsha' concept defines relativity of Avatara with respect to Nirguna Infinite. It's called as 'Amsha' 'Cause the thing, infinite has assumed a finite. Finite means part. Part of infinite. Jiva is also called as part of Brahman. Because Brahman has assumed a part - finite existence through Maya.. This is my view.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Please quote the precise chapter and verse in Bhagavad Gita where Krishna says ' I come in human form through Maya'.
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My understanding is that Amsha is not part, but simply, a different form etc. Maybe it was not the right word to use, I can understand that.
AFAIK, in VA, Jiva is never a "part" of Narayana. They are distinct, but connect by SA bhava.
Also I don't understand how a formless, indescribable Brahman can be "infinite" compared to a Brahman who can take all forms and has infinite attributes.
EDIT: And yes, it would be nice to see the BG verse that you pointed out, though I have a feeling which one it is...
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Bhagavad Gita 4.6
अजोऽपि सन्नव्ययात्मा भुतानामिश्वरोपि सन
प्रकृतिं स्वमधिष्ठाय संभवामि आत्ममायया
" Though I'm Imperishable unborn Atma of all beings and their[Beings'] lord, by residing in my Prakruti I come into existence [Manifests or Born] through my Maya. "
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
God's Maya is simply referring to His creative powers to generate the universe. It does not mean the universe itself is unreal as some kind of illusion. Similarly, in Bhagavad Gita 7.13, 7.14, and 7.15, Sri Krishna says that the same Maya has been used to generate the gunas of human beings through the guna consciousness energy of the universe. What Sri Krishna is saying is that human beings with all their science are not able to understand the way He has done these two things. Only those who seek refuge in God will be able to understand how it is done.
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निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Bhagavan' Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said so. The Six Goswamis said so. Sri Vallabhacharya says so. Even Srimad Bhagavatam, the topmost of all Puranas (Puranamalam) proudly declares "Krsna tu swayam bhagavan!".
The Krsna that is called "amsa" in the purana is different from the Swayam Bhagavan Krsna of the Bhagavtam. The former appears every Chatur Yuga, while the latter appears only once in the day of Brahma in His original blackish-blue complexion.
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
This is an Adwaita translation. A Vaishnav approach can also be applied. Avyayatma refers to the indestructible body of the Lord, not the Jivatma.The Prakrtim and Maya here refers to the Yogamaya, or the Cit Shakti by which the Swarupa of the Lord becomes manifest of unmanifest. It does not refer here to the material Maya. I would like to post Srila Vishwanath Cakravarti's commentary on this verse to clarify this (note here he also quotes the other acharyas):
" if the word prakrti meant the external material energy, then its controller, the Supreme Lord, becomes, by inference, a material form, not a special object of realization. Therefore, in conformity to the dictionary meaning (samsiddhi-prakrti tv ime svarupam ca svabhavas ca), the word prakrti means svarupa in this verse. It does not refer to the material energy which arises from his svarupa. The Lord’s svarupa is sac cid ananda.
Concerning the word prakrti, Sridhara Swami says, “You are prakrti which is composed of suddha sattva.” Ramanujacarya. says, “Prakrti means ones own nature. Thus the phrase ‘Being situated in my nature,’ means ‘I appear with my svarupa by my own will.'”
Thus, prakrti means one’s nature, which is condensed sac cid ananda rasa, which is distinct from material energy. The word svam along with prakrti thus indicates “my own true form,” as distinct from others’ true forms.
For the sruti says:
sa bhagavah kasmin pratisthitah sva mahimni
Dear sir, in what is the supreme situated? It is situated in its own glory. Chandogya Upanisad 7.24.1
Madhusudana Sarasvati gives the following meaning. “I appear, situated in my svarupa. Being situated spiritually, I act without duality of soul and body.”
“But if you have indestructible bodies such as Matsya or Kurma, then why do not your present form and the previous forms appear all at once?
“I appear through my maya coming from my self (atma means self, thus atma maya means my own maya), yoga maya, the function of the cit sakti, which both covers and reveals my svarupas. I appear revealing my present form, having covered the previous forms.”
Sridhar Swami says, “I appear by my energy of jnana, bala and viryawhich strongly manifest (atma mayaya).”
Atma mayaya can also mean “By my own knowledge,” since maya can mean knowledge in this context: maya vayunam jnanam. The usage is stated by Ramanujacarya: “He continually knows the sin and piety of all entities by knowledge (mayaya).” Madhusadana Sarasvati says: “Maya means the awareness through that body (atma) that I am the Lord, Vasudeva, devoid of difference between body and soul.”
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Anyway this post was meant to be about Lord Nityananda Prabhu, but it sorta got side tracked into a philosophical discussion.
Lord Nityananda is the second form of Bhagavan Sri Gauranga . In fact there is no difference between them. Just like there is no difference between Krsna and Balarama except that of skin color, similarly Lord Nitai is fully situated in His Bhagavata. However, the important distinction here is that Lord Nitai is the most merciful form of God. He is the only form of Godhead who does not discrimination on the basis of anything. He does not concider any offenses and sees no difference between one who is pious or one who is sinful. In one of His pastimes, Jagai, a sinful person, hit Lord Nitai's head with a broken pot and made him bleed. Lord Gauranga was ready to Invoke his Sudarshan and kill Jagai, but Nitai fell at Gaura's feet and begged the Lord to save them. Lord Nitai is the only Lord who forgives every offense (even Vaishnav Aparadha the greatest offense) and is ready to sell himself to the person who worships Him. All He asks for is Faith, and in return He gives everything. The glories of Lord Nityananda are endless, as He is the Adi-Guru, the original Guru-Tattva. He is my Ishtar deva and my ultimate shelter (Hence my Name
If you want to learn more about Lord Nityananda, please go to nitaism.com a site established by my Pujya Gurudev, Srila Bhaktiratna Sadhu Nitaipresthiji.
Lord Nityananda is the second form of Bhagavan Sri Gauranga . In fact there is no difference between them. Just like there is no difference between Krsna and Balarama except that of skin color, similarly Lord Nitai is fully situated in His Bhagavata. However, the important distinction here is that Lord Nitai is the most merciful form of God. He is the only form of Godhead who does not discrimination on the basis of anything. He does not concider any offenses and sees no difference between one who is pious or one who is sinful. In one of His pastimes, Jagai, a sinful person, hit Lord Nitai's head with a broken pot and made him bleed. Lord Gauranga was ready to Invoke his Sudarshan and kill Jagai, but Nitai fell at Gaura's feet and begged the Lord to save them. Lord Nitai is the only Lord who forgives every offense (even Vaishnav Aparadha the greatest offense) and is ready to sell himself to the person who worships Him. All He asks for is Faith, and in return He gives everything. The glories of Lord Nityananda are endless, as He is the Adi-Guru, the original Guru-Tattva. He is my Ishtar deva and my ultimate shelter (Hence my Name
If you want to learn more about Lord Nityananda, please go to nitaism.com a site established by my Pujya Gurudev, Srila Bhaktiratna Sadhu Nitaipresthiji.
निताइ dasa
Nitai's servant's servant
Dandavat Pranam. I hope the other contributors are merciful upon me. I don't really have as much knowledge of Shastra as them
.
I really do not think that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu preached differences between avatars of Narayana. Even so, Ramanuja, Vedanta Desika, Madhvacharya, Jayatirtha, Vyasa Tirtha, Pillai Lokacharya, Azhwars etc would disagree that one form of Narayana is greater than the other.
"Krishnas tu swayam bhagavan!" just means that Krishna is verily God himself. If you go by the translations of the Advaitins, Tattva-vadins, and Vishistadvaitins, no real special status is given to Krishna over the other incarnations. He may be purna-avatar, but that doesn't mean he is the origin of Vishnu himself!