Noah and his Ark - Believe it or Not?

[t3gah]

1. Not every myth has a global flood. What may have happened in another part of the world does not prove the Biblical flood
2. And no ark has ever been found despite the number of expeditions.
3. Some of the flood myths predate the Biblical flood.

Flood legends

Samples from six continents and the islands of the sea; hundreds of such legends are known

Australia - Kurnai
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Babylon - Berossus’ account
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Babylon - Gilgamesh epic
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Borneo - Sea Dayak
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Burma - Singpho
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Canada - Cree
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Canada - Montagnais
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

China - Lolo
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Cuba - original natives
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

East Africa - Masai
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Egypt - Book of the Dead
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Fiji - Walavu-levu tradition
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

French Polynesia - Raïatéa
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared

Greece - Lucian’s account
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Guyana - Macushi
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Iceland - Eddas
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

India - Andaman Islands
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

India - Bhil
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

India - Kamar
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Iran - Zend-Avesta
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared

Italy - Ovid’s poetry
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Malay Peninsula - Jakun
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Mexico - Codex Chimalpopoca
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Mexico - Huichol
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

New Zealand - Maori
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Peru - Indians of Huarochirí
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared

Russia - Vogul
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

U.S.A. (Alaska) - Kolusches
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

U.S.A. (Alaska) - Tlingit
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

U.S.A. (Arizona) - Papago
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

U.S.A. (Hawaii) - legend of Nu-u
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Vanuatu - Melanesians
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Vietnam - Bahnar
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Wales - Dwyfan/Dwyfach legend
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

References:

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
Life and Work at the Great Pyramid

 

[Druidus]

Any civilization that comes into contact with the water is likely to have their own myths about it. Water was one of the defining forces of human spirituality and civilization, thus, there are many legends and myths about it. Regardless, do you really think that those are all of the peoples in the world? There are cultures out there with no flood myth.

 

[seraphimfire]

I agree with little nipper to a point! I'm a Velikovskyite!(sorry for bad spelling?) Most of the scientific and older members may remember him!?
I never really disdained Darwin in the other thread I just don't agree with his "children"! Velikovsky researched all his life as written in his two works that are very scientific and many of his theories of planetary conditions and solar system conditions are proven fact! "The Flood" was actually a world wide cataclysm which I think seperated the plates causeing floods, earthquakes, volcanic activity and death to many species! I don't think the story of the ark and Noah has been translated properly and I question a world wide drowning of everything and continent! Why are there no platipuses, kangaroes, and myriads of other creatures in the mid-east?? Not to mention anywhere else but OZ???? I can see the theories of Atlantis as part of this story and Jesus I think was the one who stated something about the world that was! I live out west and I can see how many places out here were under water and I also see how quickly things can change! Mt st.Helen
created petrified wood in a moment! Look what has changed in one little Tsunami! I agree with Velikovsky in that these ,legends as it were, happened very quickly! I wish I had more insite to the meaning of the story of Noah, it has more to it then just history! Most of the Bible is written to a Spiritual people with a more esoteric meaning!
Seraph

 

[Druidus]

Woah, that post ^^^ has no periods at all. And most of the sentences are exclamatory, and the ones that are interrogative are exclamatory/interrogative. That's crazy!

 

[seraphimfire]

Hey Druid;
So I'm not a linguist. I don't have a degree in english and I fought dislexia and ADHD all my 58 years of life. I can now however, read complex story lines and even read the King James Bible which at one time was impossible for me. Shakespeare is another one I can now enjoy but slowly. Same with typing only about 15 words a minute or I will make to many mistakes due to my brain wanting to go fast and my fingers will not follow.
I will go back and change most of my exclamation points to periods if it makes you happy?
Seraph

 

[painted wolf]

There are many marsupials in South and one in North America.
There is no evidence that the continents could have moved from a connected centralized position to thier present places in just 40 days.

not much changed in the Tsunami if you really look at it, houses were distroyed and some forests but the bigest change was a couple of small islands moved somewhere around six feet. The houses and the trees will come back and in a few decades you'll never know a Tsunami happined.

The largest earth movement (that I am aware of) was 20 feet, due to a 9.8 ish earthquake. For the contenents to travel the required seven thousand odd miles, it would require the equivelent of 11 earthquakes of 9.8 or higher per second, every second, for the entire 40 days.

The contents are still moving, very slowly, with the exception of the occasional 'jump' of a few feet. This process has been going on for a LONG time and so long as the core of the planet keeps its molten heat up, it will never stop.

wa:do

 

[t3gah]

If I recall the accounts in Genesis state that God brought animals to Adam so that they could be named. This means that God may have had all the animals that were required go to a staging area possibly. The question then arises that there had to be more than one staging area for those animals that were from cold climates or had to fly a long distance or had to walk a huge stretch. All this makes another problem and that is what will those animals be fed while they are waiting in the staging area's? I know there's the account of quails that were blown into the camp of the Hebrews during the exodus from Egypt. Exodus 16:13,14. Then there is also the manna that the Hebrews took in that was on the ground each morning. I suppose if God could do that, he could do anything to provide nourishment for the waiting animals.

Last night I was contemplating the ark construction again. If the tree's were laid across the boats width, then the length of each tree wouldn't be a real factor with butt jointing. If the stories of the ark were done in stages, then the tree's could be lifted or hoisted up to the next floor, etc. The only problem I came up with that idea is that logging companies use huge trucks with heavy duty hydraulics to lift tree's. But then the Egyptians built the pyramids.

So back to the finishing details. Pitch and bitumen is said to have been used. The edges of all joints and seams had to be pretty darn straight for the sealant to work properly. In log home construction the welting and water sealant can be forced into the gaps, even if they are irregular. But with water on the seams and pressure from the weight of the vessel, animals, provisions and people, the stress levels must be taken into account.

So even if the construction of each floor was double construction like what was done in the 17 and 18 hundreds in America, that would only create another problem. Weight increase and then maintainence of the sealant for the joints. It would be impossible to fix any leak in the bottom layer of the lowest layer of wood flooring.

I did solve suring up the end walls and sides. If they did that in sections they could have made the ark this way. Because one thing I forgot to take into account is that it took about 70 years to complete the construction of the ark.

This last problem I couldn't work out because I didn't really research it fully. Did the Hebrews of yesterday have the capability to make block and tackles and A-frames?

 

[robtex]

Alex you get an E for effort. My only motive (not sure of others motive) for asking yall to concieve an ark was to show you it wasn't possible. It just wasn't . You can draft it up measure it out and run numbers all you want but it just isn't possible. When you factor in the wood boat and the sheer amount of animals it would have had on it ...and keep in mind Noah would have had to keep up with everything from huge animals like rhinos and elephants to small ones like mice and salamanders it becomes more and more unreasonable. Even if they could have found wood that long and ways to assemble it the boat is way to small to hold that many animals and would have sank under the weight.

70 years is a long time. Noah would have to had lived a lot longer than most people probably did back than without the aid of modern medicine.

If God is responsible for genesis how reasonable is it to think that he flooded the world and killed most of what he made when he could have

1) unmade it instantly
2) made it the way he wanted it the first time (omnipotent)

If the world had really been drowned like the Bible proposes three more factors (that were never recorded to occur) would have happened.

1) dead bodies would have created a health hazzard
2) like druidus said the eco-system would have been destoryed
3) rain comes from evaporated water on the earth. the draught neccessary to carry up water for that much rain would have killed most of the animals noah included long before the rains would have.

 

[Druidus]

Hey Druid;
So I'm not a linguist. I don't have a degree in english and I fought dislexia and ADHD all my 58 years of life. I can now however, read complex story lines and even read the King James Bible which at one time was impossible for me. Shakespeare is another one I can now enjoy but slowly. Same with typing only about 15 words a minute or I will make to many mistakes due to my brain wanting to go fast and my fingers will not follow.
I will go back and change most of my exclamation points to periods if it makes you happy?
Seraph

Woah, look, I wasn't meaning to be rude or anything, I was just pointing it out, as I hope people would do for me. Don't let this get you down. Stay here with us, I do enjoy your posts... :jiggy:

 

[LittleNipper]

Let's use a simplified version of this scenario. We'll throw the measurements out the window, so we don't have to worry about them first. Assuming only elephants were on the ship, we can say there were two animals on the ship, excluding the humans and possible stowaways. The amount of food the average elephant needs in one day is 75 to 150 kilograms. We'll go with 150 for simplicity. Over the year (approximately) that the ark was supposedly on the water, we would need 109.5 metric tons of elephant food with us, excluding what the humans need. Combine that with the weight of both of elephants 9.2 metric tons, we already have 118.7 metric tons of weight on the ship. This is only the two African Elephants. I'm not sure, but 118.7 metric tons, for just two of the required animals is to much for a paltry wooden ark to hold. The flooring might even break. 118.7 metric tons is equal to the weight of approximately 1493 people. Could his ark hold that many people?

The story is largely impossible, and completely inconsistant with reality. However, it is likely that there is a seed of truth. Quite likely, infact, so much so, that I would bet my life on it. There was a man who built an ark, and used it to save his livestock and family from a flood, which lasted a relatively short period of time, many, many years ago. Over time, this morphed into the story we love/are indifferent to/hate today.

How much food would a baby elephant eat? How much food does an elephant eat that is in a semi comatose state? How much food do 3 hungray football players eat? If the majority of the weight within the ark was provisions, I simply do not see an issue. Ocean liners do it all the time and they have LOTS of wasted space and loads of people and things of no importance which go along for the ride.

 

[painted wolf]

do elephants ever go into "semi-comatose" states? Not naturally, unless Noah has some mighty big drugs on hand.
A baby elephant (nursing) puts on around 64 pounds a week. Once they start eating solid food they will eat about 160 pounds of food per day. By the end of the 40 days our baby elephant would weigh an aditional 384 pounds and have eaten 6,400 pounds of food.

If the animals on the ark were babys then who took the time to nurse them all around the clock.

also how many types of elephant would have been on the Ark, there are three species of living elephant. Asian, African forest and African Savana. What about wolly mammoths? Mastodons, Gomphothieriums, Phiomias, Stegodon, Trilophodons and Moreotheriums? These are just Genus of elephants each one had several species of its own... what animals did they have room for and what ones got left behind?

wa:do

 

[Druidus]

If the majority of the weight within the ark was provisions, I simply do not see an issue. Ocean liners do it all the time and they have LOTS of wasted space and loads of people and things of no importance which go along for the ride.

? Are you serious? We utilize metals today, and we still don't usually take elephants and enough food for a year with us. You cannot use a boat from today to prove the much inferior boat of Noah strong enough.

By the end of the 40 days our baby elephant would weigh an aditional 384 pounds and have eaten 6,400 pounds of food.

It was actually one year. An even crazier amount.

It DOES NOT MATTER!!! No matter what strength the ark had, a year under water would destroy all plantlife, no exceptions but phyto-plankton. Sorry, but that's that.

 

[t3gah]

1) dead bodies would have created a health hazzard
2) like druidus said the eco-system would have been destoryed

1) Sharks
2) In the beginning God said let the plants appear and they did. Who's gonna see it done a second time around or care ?

 

[LittleNipper]

? Are you serious? We utilize metals today, and we still don't usually take elephants and enough food for a year with us. You cannot use a boat from today to prove the much inferior boat of Noah strong enough.


It was actually one year. An even crazier amount.

It DOES NOT MATTER!!! No matter what strength the ark had, a year under water would destroy all plantlife, no exceptions but phyto-plankton. Sorry, but that's that.

GOD told Noah how to build the Ark and provided the materials. All the Ark nad to do was float. It needed no ballast. It had no propulsion. The only fuel it needed was the kind living things consume. Seeds were everywhere on the Ark and were likely the main source of food. Who says the Ark was inferior for what it was designed to do and did do.

 

[LittleNipper]

The only job 8 people had to do was eat, sleep, and tend to animals. I believe in GOD and so I believe GOD caused the animals to behave and eat as necessary, when necessary. Confined animals do not eat as much as those in the wild. All they do is eat and sleep.

 

[Druidus]

Alright, you belive that God used his omnipotency to make the animals eat less, shrink them down to amazingly small sizes, and keep the boat afloat. Cool.

But if I'm to accept that, than you must accept the idea that if I write something in a book and say it was divinely inspired, that it is directly from God. As a matter of fact, right now, I have written "The story of Noah's Ark is just that, a story." in a little reader's digest book I've found. Since a human says it is inspired by God, he must be telling the truth!

 

[LittleNipper]

Alright, you belive that God used his omnipotency to make the animals eat less, shrink them down to amazingly small sizes, and keep the boat afloat. Cool.

But if I'm to accept that, than you must accept the idea that if I write something in a book and say it was divinely inspired, that it is directly from God. As a matter of fact, right now, I have written "The story of Noah's Ark is just that, a story." in a little reader's digest book I've found. Since a human says it is inspired by God, he must be telling the truth!

I never said GOD shrank any animals. It is only the possibility that some of the amimals were not fully grown. Secondly, Jesus never quoted you and GOD will punish those that lie about their inspiration by exposing them. None of the writers of the Old Testament or New ever contradicted the inspiration of any of the others.

 

[Druidus]

I never said GOD shrank any animals. It is only the possibility that some of the amimals were not fully grown.

So the elephants were embryos?

Secondly, Jesus never quoted you and GOD will punish those that lie about their inspiration by exposing them.

Indeed, who said that? Another of the divinely inspired?

None of the writers of the Old Testament or New ever contradicted the inspiration of any of the others.

ROTFLMAO!!!! :biglaugh:

Biblical Contradictions:

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Contradiction with reality, the bat is not a bird.

LEV 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
LEV 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
LEV 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
LEV 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
LEV 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
LEV 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
LEV 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Contradiction with reality: The rabbit/hare does not chew cud

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Astromical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from anyplace. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

 

[robtex]

Alright, you belive that God used his omnipotency to make the animals eat less, shrink them down to amazingly small sizes, and keep the boat afloat. Cool.

More signifigantly, they all seem to realize that

1) the story isn't adding up which is why they are all inspired to rewrite so now we have the gospel according to (insert religious forum posters name) .

2) that some how God who can do all these neat things failed to get it right the first time (so much for omnipotenency) and than went about it the most difficult and time consuming way possible and put an enormous burdon on Noah probably ruining the man's life.

 

[t3gah]

You know.



That water



I know what happened to it and where it came from.



There's one bible account. Actually there's two accounts.



Elijah. Fire comes down from the sky and consumes an altar, the wood, an animal and alot of water.



Korah and the 250 chieftains. Fire comes down from the sky and consumes all 250 persons. All that's left are the incense holders they had in their hands.



And you know what?


There's another bible account that God blessed a battle or rather stoned the enemy into the stone age by raining down rocks and boulders on the opposing force.


IF God can do that with fire and stone, why can't he do the magic trick with rain too?