Noah's Arc and the Flood?

[sooda]

Sorry I missed the logics in this sentence. Do you have a link to this philippinian story?

Yes... Here it is, but evidently they had more than one flood myth.

1. Flood Myths from the Philippines
   https://www.pitt.edu/~dash/flood-phil.html
   Jan 04, 2003 · The Tinguian tale is as follows: Once in the very old times Kaboniyan sent a flood which covered all the land. Then there was no place for the …
   

 

[Native]

The Fertile Crescent and Nile Delta often flooded. That's why they were fertile.

You didn´t answer my questions

Native said: ↑
So how do you then explain that several cultures around the World have a very similar story?

Read more of the global "Flood Myth" here - Flood myth - Wikipedia

That must have been something of a box if it should contain a pair of all animals. You have to have ALL elements in the story to fit together in order to understand the entire story

 

[sooda]

You didn´t answer my questions

Native said: ↑
So how do you then explain that several cultures around the World have a very similar story?

Read more of the global "Flood Myth" here - Flood myth - Wikipedia

That must have been something of a box if it should contain a pair of all animals. You have to have ALL elements in the story to fit together in order to understand the entire story

Myths are explanations of natural phenomena that Bronze age people and Neolithics didn't understand... and no they don't have to be logical.

(Many natural phenomena like rain, rainbow, lightning, thunder, eclipse, etc., were also explained by these myths.)

 

[Native]

es... Here it is, but evidently they had more than one flood myth.

1. Flood Myths from the Philippines
   https://www.pitt.edu/~dash/flood-phil.html
   Jan 04, 2003 · The Tinguian tale is as follows: Once in the very old times Kaboniyan sent a flood which covered all the land. Then there was no place for the …

Notice that: The Flood Myth appears in the connection with the cultural creation story in generally. This story has become somewhat culturally forgotten and distorted in many ways as times went on - as also in the the case of the biblical intepretation and perception.

In your linked article there also is a relevant link to the Philippinian Creation Stories - Creation Myths from the Philippines - which specifically deals with the creation of the Milky Way, which was/is the largest local observable part of the Universe.

The very concept of "water" in the creation stories are meant to describe celestial "cosmic clouds or rivers of gas and dust" which came together and created firm matter in the galaxy. In this sense one better can understand the contents in your first link whereas it is not very logic otherwise to understand how "water can create mountains" as referred above.

 

[Native]

Myths are explanations of natural phenomena that Bronze age people and Neolithics didn't understand... and no they don't have to be logical.

No they don´t have to be - but if understood in the correct connections, they mostly are logical.
And don´t be sure that our ancestors didn´t understand their own myths. I think it´s the other way around: Modern humans don´t understand the myths as well as our ancestors did.

 

[sooda]

Notice that: The Flood Myth appears in the connection with the cultural creation story in generally. This story has become somewhat culturally forgotten and distorted in many ways as times went on - as also in the the case of the biblical intepretation and perception.

In your linked article there also is a relevant link to the Philippinian Creation Stories - Creation Myths from the Philippines - which specifically deals with the creation of the Milky Way, which was/is the largest local observable part of the Universe.

The very concept of "water" in the creation stories are meant to describe celestial "cosmic clouds or rivers of gas and dust" which came together and created firm matter in the galaxy. In this sense one better can understand the contents in your first link whereas it is not very logic otherwise to understand how "water can create mountains" as referred above.

Can you see the Milky Way from and Mesopotamia?

Water doesn't create mountains.. Mountains are caused by the action of tectonic plates and volcanos.

Bronze Age people and Neolithics didn't know what caused lightning, rainbows, thunder or eclipses either.

 

[sooda]

No they don´t have to be - but if understood in the correct connections, they mostly are logical.
And don´t be sure that our ancestors didn´t understand their own myths. I think it´s the other way around: Modern humans don´t understand the myths as well as our ancestors did.

Do you also believe the Greek myths and Norse myths?

 

[Native]

Can you see the Milky Way from and Mesopotamia?

The contours of the Milky Way can be observed all around the Earth, hence the idea of a "flood running over the Earth" as the Milky Way was thought to be a "river in the heaven" in ancient times.

Water doesn't create mountains.. Mountains are caused by the action of tectonic plates and volcanos.

When we are talking of Creation Stories and the beginning of creation, you cannot speak of "tectonic plates on Earth" since the creation stories refers to a stage where the entire Solar System wasn´t even formed in the beginning.

Bronze Age people and Neolithics didn't know what caused lightning, rainbows, thunder or eclipses either.

So, when living in close contact with nature, you don´t think they were able to connect different weather patterns to different elements in nature?

And they even (indirectly) notised the eclipses just by watching the annual changing altitudes of the Sun.

Ok, they maybe couldn´t explain these scenario´s in modern scientific standards, but they certainly understood the nature enough to survive and respect the nature - which modern humans often lack to do.

 

[Native]

Do you also believe the Greek myths and Norse myths?

Of course I do Do you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, every culture has a deluge myth. In the Philippines the earth was too flat to have a place to hunt pigs so they have a flood which creates the mountains.

Not every culture. Most have one.

 

[sooda]

The contours of the Milky Way can be observed all around the Earth, hence the idea of a "flood running over the Earth" as the Milky Way was thought to be a "river in the heaven" in ancient times.

When we are talking of Creation Stories and the beginning of creation, you cannot speak of "tectonic plates on Earth" since the creation stories refers to a stage where the entire Solar System wasn´t even formed in the beginning.

So, when living in close contact with nature, you don´t think they were able to connect different weather patterns to different elements in nature?

And they even notised the eclipses just by watching the annual changing altitudes of the Sun.

Ok, they maybe couldn´t explain these scenario´s in modern scientific standards, but they certainly understood the nature enough to survive and respect the nature - which modern humans often lack to do.

You think Moses was writing about literal creation? The Hebrews didn't know the story until after the Babylonian exile.

Enuma Elish, The Sumerian Epic of Creation
www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/enuma.html
The Babylonian Epic of Creation 'When on high' The Babylonian Epic of Creation. When on high the heaven had not been named, Firm ground below had not been called by name, Naught but primordial Apsu, their begetter, (And) Mummu-Tiamat, she who bore them all, Their waters commingling as



The Creation - Greek Mythology
https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/The_Creation
The Creation. In the beginning, there was only Chaos, the gaping emptiness. Then, either all by themselves or out of the formless void, sprang forth three more primordial deities: Gaea (Earth), Tartarus (the Underworld), and Eros (Love).

 

[sooda]

Of course I do Do you?

Your Milky Way story reminds me of a Lakota creation myth I once read.

 

[Native]

You think Moses was writing about literal creation? The Hebrews didn't know the story until after the Babylonian exile.

This is the usual conviction but I´m not sure. According to my perception of the Creation Stories, Hebrews could very well have their own oral story long before it was written in Babylonian stones.
In comparison, ancient Australian Aboriginals stories have about 40.000 years on it´s back, both orally and carved/painted on stones.

 

[sooda]

This is the usual conviction but I´m not sure. According to my perception of the Creation Stories, Hebrews could very well have their own oral story long before it was written in Babylonian stones.
In comparison, ancient Australian Aboriginals stories have about 40.000 years on it´s back, both orally and carved/painted on stones.

The Hebrews were landless north coast Canaanites .. nomads with a tiny vocabulary. Most of their myths and PSALMS came from the Ugaritic texts.

 

[Native]

Your Milky Way story reminds me of a Lakota creation myth I once read.

Do you by any chance maybe have tribal connections anywhere?

 

[Native]

The Hebrews were landless north coast Canaanites .. nomads with a tiny vocabulary. Most of their myths and PSALMS came from the Ugaritic texts.

I really cannot argue against this - but even the Aboriginals were nomads and they have a nice vocal Story of Creation, you know.

In generally, I wouldn´t count alone on written texts as the only evidence for knowledge of the Creation Stories.

 

[sooda]

I really cannot argue against this - but even the Aboriginals were nomads and they have a nice vocal Story of Creation, you know.

In generally, I wouldn´t count alone on written texts as the only evidence for knowledge of the Creation Stories.

Like I said.... they were Canaanites so they had the Canaanite myths and gods.

 

[dad]

There is no evidence for a global flood. There is evidence for a flood of the Euphrates River Basin.

There is evidence for a global flood. Your Euphrates flood was not the only flood on the block.

 

[dad]

The story of Noah's Ark is simply borrowed from the older Gilgamesh Epic.

No. It isn't.

 

[sooda]

No. It isn't.

No. It isn't.

Sure it is.. The Gilgamesh Epic is much old than the Hebrews...Much older than Genesis.