Noah's Arc and the Flood?

[sooda]

It depends IMO on your definition of "mythology".

From - Myth - Wikipedia
"Folklorist Alan Dundes defines myth as a sacred narrative that explains how the world and humanity evolved into their present form. Dundes classified a sacred narrative as "a story that serves to define the fundamental worldview of a culture by explaining aspects of the natural world and delineating the psychological and social practices and ideals of a society".

An extract from - Creation myth - Wikipedia
"“A creation myth (or cosmogonic myth) is a symbolic narrative of how the world began and how people first came to inhabit it. While in popular usage the term myth often refers to false or fanciful stories, members of cultures often ascribe varying degrees of truth to their creation myths. In the society in which it is told, a creation myth is usually regarded as conveying profound truths, metaphorically, symbolically and sometimes in a historical or literal sense. They are commonly, although not always, considered cosmogonical myths—that is, they describe the ordering of the cosmos from a state of chaos or amorphousness”.

The topic in this thread "Noah's Arc and the Flood" can only be understood if you are familiar with the mythical language and it´s meanings.

The very outlook of the Milky Way is often mentioned mythologically as a "river running in the Sky", observable all around the Earth.

This river/flood is completely misunderstood today. From being a "River/Flood running OVER the Earth in the Sky", t is biblically skewed to become a "Flood of a divine revenge running ON and covering the Earth.

That is: The mythical telling of this celestial *river* is in fact a scientific observation made by our ancestors all over the World, hence the multiple telling of this myth.

I prefer the first definition to the second.

The second contends that myth can present the historical and/or literal. Can you offhand think of a myth that is literal?

 

[Native]

I prefer the first definition to the second.

The second contends that myth can present the historical and/or literal. Can you offhand think of a myth that is literal?

Yes . . . as I wrote above:

The topic in this thread "Noah's Arc and the Flood" can only be understood if you are familiar with the mythical language and it´s meanings.

The very outlook of the Milky Way is often mentioned mythologically as a "river running in the Sky", observable all around the Earth.

This river/flood is completely misunderstood today. From being a "River/Flood running OVER the Earth in the Sky", it is biblically skewed to become a "Flood of a divine revenge running ON and covering the Earth".

That is: The mythical telling of this celestial *river* is in fact a scientific observation made by our ancestors all over the World, hence the multiple telling of this myth.

This "myth" is a real, i.e. "litteral" description of the Milky Way . . . but "once upon a time" it of course was orally before it became litteral.

 

[sooda]

Yes . . . as I wrote above:

This "myth" is a real, i.e. "litteral" description of the Milky Way . . . but "once upon a time" it of course was orally before it became litteral.

Aside from ancient characterizations of the Milky Way can you think of a single myth that could be true?

 

[Native]

Aside from ancient characterizations of the Milky Way can you think of a single myth that could be true?

I´ve already given an example. Are you sure you interpret the term of "myth" properly?

 

[shunyadragon]

Aside from ancient characterizations of the Milky Way can you think of a single myth that could be true?

The ancient characterizations of the Milky Way are not true, but the milky way is a fact.that is true, as is likely the flood of the Tygris Euphrates Valley that the Biblical myth is based on. Myths are often rooted in some historical facts, but embelished and added to in the ancient cultural context.

 

[sooda]

The ancient characterizations of the Milky Way are not true, but the milky way is a fact.that is true, as is likely the flood of the Tygris Euphrates Valley that the Biblical myth is based on. Myths are often rooted in some historical facts, but embelished and added to in the ancient cultural context.

Do you think any of the Greek myths are grounded in history?

 

[wellwisher]

Mythology is symbolic. Symbols are 3-D concepts that are very dense and not easy to put into words. They are like compressed files, which when decompressed, have much hidden meaning that is not evident on the surface.

The value of mythology is this type of compressed memory file is the best way to create long term memory in children. The children can store these compressed files, and then later in life, many will attempt to decompress them.

As an experiment, say we had a group of children. We run two tests on the same group, one test each day. On the first day, we will lecture them with a decompressed logical analysis of a scriptural symbol. This can get long winded and esoteric. We wake the children up and take them home.

The next day, we tell them a story with magical and/or divine characters. Which will get their attention and which will they be able to remember easier? Even an Atheist, who hates the bible, can still recite the story of Adam and Eve or the flood of Noah. The data is preserved for a lifetime as well as generation to generation. The decompressed logical analysis is quickly forgotten, since it is too fluffy and often esoteric.

Later in life, the adult can still remember the compressed file and if they decide to decompress, the analysis will be flavored by the signs of their times, to make it more personal to them. While the compressed files, do not change, so the foundation is always the same; timeless.

Noah's Ark and the Flood is a story one can tell even small children just learning to talk. The human brain will store this data. Smaller Children will often want you to repeat it many times. The child's brain releases endorphins; story buzz. The decompression is more complicated and is where the debate begins. The debate can occur even among bible scholars, as well as with the atheists. While perpetuation of the compressed files is the job of the Church, since the future can also make use of them.

 

[Native]

The ancient characterizations of the Milky Way are not true, but the milky way is a fact.that is true, as is likely the flood of the Tygris Euphrates Valley that the Biblical myth is based on. Myths are often rooted in some historical facts, but embelished and added to in the ancient cultural context.

Are you an expert in ancient mythology?

Of course ancient myths of the Milky Way River don´t deal with "the flood of the Tygris Euphrates Valley".

Read more here:
Milky Way (mythology) - Wikipedia

 

[Native]

Mythology is symbolic. Symbols are 3-D concepts that are very dense and not easy to put into words. They are like compressed files, which when decompressed, have much hidden meaning that is not evident on the surface.

Well, that is - sort of - very likely. But if our ancestors spoke of the Milky Way outlook, this can hardly be just and pure symbolic, can it? Read - Milky Way (mythology) - Wikipedia

 

[shunyadragon]

Are you an expert in ancient mythology?

Of course ancient myths of the Milky Way don´t deal with "the flood of the Tygris Euphrates Valley".

Read more here:
Milky Way (mythology) - Wikipedia

I did not say the ancient myths of the Milky Way deal with "the flood of the Tygris and Euphrates Valley. What they have in common is that they are both grounded in fact. The Milky Way is a fact of our galaxy, and the basis for many human myths of different cultures. The Genesis flood is a myth based on an actual event, a catastrophic flood of the Tygris Euphrates Valley.

Reread the post and respond again.

 

[shunyadragon]

Do you think any of the Greek myths are grounded in history?

Yes, facts may underlie myths that are not true in and of themselves. The Iliad and Odyssey are grounded in geography and history, and they contain both facts and mythology.

 

[sooda]

Yes, facts may underlie myths that are not true in and of themselves. The Iliad grounded in geography and history, and the Odyssey contains both facts and mythology.

Ancient Greek Myths, Stories and Legends

• Arachne. The Arachne is a creature from Greek mythology, whose name was later used...
• Centaurs. In Greek mythology, Centaurs (or Kentauroi) are half-man,...
• Cerberus. Cerberus: The three Headed Dog of Greek Mythology There are many unique creatures...
• Chimaera. Chimaera – A Fire-Breathing Monster Chimaera has become one...

Greek Myths • Famous Stories, Myths and Legends of Ancient Gree…
greekgodsandgoddesses.net/myths/

 

[sooda]

I don't know for sure but I think the Odessy and the Illiad are just epics because they are stories about great people and hero's as opposed to a religious based belief about a deity. Greek mythology is about the gods and demi-gods that they worshiped.

According to Dictionary.com:

a myth is "a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature."

where an epic is "noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style: Homer's Iliad is an epic poem."

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't know for sure but I think the Odessy and the Illiad are just epics because they are stories about great people and hero's as opposed to a religious based belief about a deity. Greek mythology is about the gods and demi-gods that they worshiped.

According to Dictionary.com:

a myth is "a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature."

where an epic is "noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style: Homer's Iliad is an epic poem."

Homer's Iliad indeed contains both mythology and facts based on geography and history.

For example: The Iliad and Odyssey

The Iliad: The Iliad tells the final chapter in the story of two major Bronze Age “Greek” alliances battling each other. It ends when the Achaeans (people mainly from what we now call Greece) sack Troy/Ilium (located in modern day Turkey). It's a long, meandering epic, but it primarily revolves around the "godlike Achilles'" struggle to confront his hubris and become humanized.

Both in scope and type, consider the Trojan war as similar to that between different European factions in WWI and WWII, or between the North and South in the American Civil War: this was a seminal, history-shaping event, and an intra-cultural war: a war fought among people of the same basic culture; although the two sides are protected by different gods, all the gods belong to the same basic pantheon or family of what we now call "Greek gods".

The Odyssey, in contrast, mainly takes place outside of that common culture and describes contact with pre-Mycenaean Mediterranean cultures. The story focuses on Odysseus and his family's struggle to recover from the Trojan war's after effects and, primarily, with Odysseus struggle to make it back home. So The Iliad describes the clash between two equally brilliant and beautiful groups of “Greeks”, and The Odyssey describes contact with the “Other”, represented as monsters and witches.

This cite goes into more detail concerning the mythology of the Iliad and Odyssey. Read further for more details.

The Mythological Background of the Iliad, List of Greek Mythologocial Figures, Primordial Deities, The Elder Gods or The Titans, Additional Mythological Figures, Summary of the Odyssey, Adventures of Odysseus, Short Gist of the Iliad, Analysis of the Iliad - sirrhey

Zeus, the father of the gods, seemed to have realized that the earth was getting terribly overcrowded. To solve the problem of overpopulation, he devised a great war which would sweep like a conflagration over Greece. This was the Trojan War.

A minor goddess, Thetis, was married to a mortal, Peleus. Out of this marriage, Achilles, the greatest Greek warrior, was born. Eris, the goddess of mischief, was not invited to the marriage feast, so into the middle of the banquet hall she threw a golden apple. The golden apple has this note: To the fairest of the goddesses. Each of the most beautiful of the goddesses- namely, Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite- claimed the golden apple.

A quarrel ensued and Father Zeus was asked to decide who was the most beautiful of the three. This placed Zeus in a predicament since Hera was his own wife and Athena and Aphrodite were his own daughters. So he parted the clouds covering Mount Olympus, the dwelling place of the gods, and showed the three goddesses a prince of Troy named Alexandros.

Zeus suggested that the three beauty contestants take their problem to Alexandros and ask him to decide. The goddesses descended upon the earth, circled Alexandros by turns, and each proceeded to bribe him so that he would award her the golden apple. Hera promised him power; Athena promised him wisdom; Aphrodite promised that she would give him the most beautiful woman in the world for his wife. Alexandros awarded the golden apple to Aphrodite.

It happened that Helen the most beautiful woman in the world was already married to Menelaos, king of Sparta. With the help of Aphrodite, Alexandros abducted Helen and took her to Troy where she remained until the end of the ensuing Trojan War. That is the reason why she is called Helen of Troy. The Greeks banded together to restore Helen of Menelaos. Agamemnon, King of Mycenaea, was their general.

Many adventurous Greek heroes joined the Greek expeditionary forces. Among them were Achilles, the greatest and bravest of the Greek heroes; Odysseus, the clever and witty warrior; Diomedes, the bold one; Nestor, the prudent old man; Aias, the giant; and a host of other heroes.

After ten years of preparation, the Greek army landed in Troy and began to attack its fortifications. The Iliad begins in the tenth year of the war.

 

[sooda]

Homer's Iliad indeed contains both mythology and facts based on geography and history.

For example: The Iliad and Odyssey

The Iliad: The Iliad tells the final chapter in the story of two major Bronze Age “Greek” alliances battling each other. It ends when the Achaeans (people mainly from what we now call Greece) sack Troy/Ilium (located in modern day Turkey). It's a long, meandering epic, but it primarily revolves around the "godlike Achilles'" struggle to confront his hubris and become humanized.

Both in scope and type, consider the Trojan war as similar to that between different European factions in WWI and WWII, or between the North and South in the American Civil War: this was a seminal, history-shaping event, and an intra-cultural war: a war fought among people of the same basic culture; although the two sides are protected by different gods, all the gods belong to the same basic pantheon or family of what we now call "Greek gods".

The Odyssey, in contrast, mainly takes place outside of that common culture and describes contact with pre-Mycenaean Mediterranean cultures. The story focuses on Odysseus and his family's struggle to recover from the Trojan war's after effects and, primarily, with Odysseus struggle to make it back home. So The Iliad describes the clash between two equally brilliant and beautiful groups of “Greeks”, and The Odyssey describes contact with the “Other”, represented as monsters and witches.

This cite goes into more detail concerning the mythology of the Iliad and Odyssey. Read further for more details.

The Mythological Background of the Iliad, List of Greek Mythologocial Figures, Primordial Deities, The Elder Gods or The Titans, Additional Mythological Figures, Summary of the Odyssey, Adventures of Odysseus, Short Gist of the Iliad, Analysis of the Iliad - sirrhey

Zeus, the father of the gods, seemed to have realized that the earth was getting terribly overcrowded. To solve the problem of overpopulation, he devised a great war which would sweep like a conflagration over Greece. This was the Trojan War.

A minor goddess, Thetis, was married to a mortal, Peleus. Out of this marriage, Achilles, the greatest Greek warrior, was born. Eris, the goddess of mischief, was not invited to the marriage feast, so into the middle of the banquet hall she threw a golden apple. The golden apple has this note: To the fairest of the goddesses. Each of the most beautiful of the goddesses- namely, Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite- claimed the golden apple.

A quarrel ensued and Father Zeus was asked to decide who was the most beautiful of the three. This placed Zeus in a predicament since Hera was his own wife and Athena and Aphrodite were his own daughters. So he parted the clouds covering Mount Olympus, the dwelling place of the gods, and showed the three goddesses a prince of Troy named Alexandros.

Zeus suggested that the three beauty contestants take their problem to Alexandros and ask him to decide. The goddesses descended upon the earth, circled Alexandros by turns, and each proceeded to bribe him so that he would award her the golden apple. Hera promised him power; Athena promised him wisdom; Aphrodite promised that she would give him the most beautiful woman in the world for his wife. Alexandros awarded the golden apple to Aphrodite.

It happened that Helen the most beautiful woman in the world was already married to Menelaos, king of Sparta. With the help of Aphrodite, Alexandros abducted Helen and took her to Troy where she remained until the end of the ensuing Trojan War. That is the reason why she is called Helen of Troy. The Greeks banded together to restore Helen of Menelaos. Agamemnon, King of Mycenaea, was their general.

Many adventurous Greek heroes joined the Greek expeditionary forces. Among them were Achilles, the greatest and bravest of the Greek heroes; Odysseus, the clever and witty warrior; Diomedes, the bold one; Nestor, the prudent old man; Aias, the giant; and a host of other heroes.

After ten years of preparation, the Greek army landed in Troy and began to attack its fortifications. The Iliad begins in the tenth year of the war.

Aesop's fables are morality tales involving animals instead of humans.. They are considered fables not myths.

Maybe there is some difference????

Epic means a long poem, typically one derived from ancient oral tradition, narrating the deeds and adventures of heroic or legendary figures or the past history of a nation.

Legend means a traditional story sometimes popularly regarded as historical but not authenticated.

And Mythology means a set of stories or beliefs about a particular person, institution, or situation, especially when exaggerated or fictitious.

So clearly we differentiate the above three words as: Epic: a long poem, Legend: a traditional story and Mythology: set of stories.

 

[shunyadragon]

Aesop's fables are morality tales involving animals instead of humans.. They are considered fables not myths.

Maybe there is some difference????

I would consider Aesop's fables simply morality tales and fables and not myths.

Epic means a long poem, typically one derived from ancient oral tradition, narrating the deeds and adventures of heroic or legendary figures or the past history of a nation.

Legend means a traditional story sometimes popularly regarded as historical but not authenticated.

True, but epic poems may contain facts, history, legends, and myths.

And Mythology means a set of stories or beliefs about a particular person, institution, or situation, especially when exaggerated or fictitious.

So clearly we differentiate the above three words as: Epic: a long poem, Legend: a traditional story and Mythology: set of stories.

Epic poems may contain facts, history, legends, and myths.

 

[Native]

The ancient characterizations of the Milky Way are not true, but the milky way is a fact.that is true, as is likely the flood of the Tygris Euphrates Valley that the Biblical myth is based on. Myths are often rooted in some historical facts, but embelished and added to in the ancient cultural context.

Well, sorry if I´ve misunderstood you. So please explain your phrase: "The ancient characterizations of the Milky Way are not true, but the milky way is a fact".

This was why I asked you if you are an expert in ancient mythology.

 

[rational experiences]

In science males claim a theme that involves thinking.

They say the theme is God. And God as a male science theme was always just about O the Earth, a stone planet history first. Only in modern times has that theme changed about God being a particle.

If a science male says, by study of Earth I believe that from one Universe to the next is a factual science theme....about God.

Which would mean that the Earth travelled a route itself...from one Universe into the next, as ancient realization, that the body of God fell from another place, as stated to be a baby womb history, and then travelled to where it stopped.

And the stars would prove that the Earth fell through space out of a higher Universe, due to factual past historical male technological sciences.

The original Earth God life study, themed in male science history.

For a planetary union to move around a Sun, a Sun relationship studied far away with a huge amount of bodies of planets similar to our own.....then you would believe, seems like God the O planet fell through space, and was separated.

Might be why so many males kept claiming that other planets once existed in our solar system and they burst...from spatial heated expansion that would shunt them out from relating to our Sun and force them to burst.

So you would ask males in the Moses Egyptian first pyramid history, did the males in fact move Earth again, in a spatial science technology that dropped us into a deeper cold space...that involved other planets exploding?

And would the stars then prove that males on Earth in science did in fact cause that circumstance their own selves? As if they were trying to re use ancient star/space Universal themes from a Universe into a new Universe as relevant stories about Earth travels?

Might be why the Milky Way would relate to a Genesis flood theme, as cause and effect conditions of trying to emulate the cosmos.

 

[sooda]

In science males claim a theme that involves thinking.

They say the theme is God. And God as a male science theme was always just about O the Earth, a stone planet history first. Only in modern times has that theme changed about God being a particle.

If a science male says, by study of Earth I believe that from one Universe to the next is a factual science theme....about God.

Which would mean that the Earth travelled a route itself...from one Universe into the next, as ancient realization, that the body of God fell from another place, as stated to be a baby womb history, and then travelled to where it stopped.

And the stars would prove that the Earth fell through space out of a higher Universe, due to factual past historical male technological sciences.

The original Earth God life study, themed in male science history.

For a planetary union to move around a Sun, a Sun relationship studied far away with a huge amount of bodies of planets similar to our own.....then you would believe, seems like God the O planet fell through space, and was separated.

Might be why so many males kept claiming that other planets once existed in our solar system and they burst...from spatial heated expansion that would shunt them out from relating to our Sun and force them to burst.

So you would ask males in the Moses Egyptian first pyramid history, did the males in fact move Earth again, in a spatial science technology that dropped us into a deeper cold space...that involved other planets exploding?

And would the stars then prove that males on Earth in science did in fact cause that circumstance their own selves? As if they were trying to re use ancient star/space Universal themes from a Universe into a new Universe as relevant stories about Earth travels?

Might be why the Milky Way would relate to a Genesis flood theme, as cause and effect conditions of trying to emulate the cosmos.

Moses is a fictional character...….

 

[rational experiences]

Moses is a fictional character...….

Males the storywriter is not a fictional character who relates science by thinking male themes and stories. Science first used male psyche/natural aware consciousness to infer science themes.

Males as science historians claim I own it all, and always had done, as a self expression in using thoughts to apply descriptions to natural objects and studies as applied by their male thinking ability. Why they chose to patent thoughts/theories as claim to the intelligence. Yet natural owned it first.

Conscious explanation was a medical science aware theology of the study of occult concepts to reason why males mis represented their life and body by the way in which they thought. Giving ownership to such ideals as fusion and laws of volcanoes and mountains in science themes. No different from males today giving a science reaction their own human name.