Noah's Ark

[Subduction Zone]

Dude, you're the one who showed the photo.
So you're claiming that it's you that does not want to learn.

LOL Seriously, how is that supposed to make any sense at all. I can explain how that formed. It is well understood. Creationists cannot and I can explain how and why they are wrong.

We will have to walk through it, are you wiling to do so? There is no need for you to admit to the obvious.

 

[Laniakea]

LOL Seriously, how is that supposed to make any sense at all. I can explain how that formed. It is well understood. Creationists cannot and I can explain how and why they are wrong.

We will have to walk through it, are you wiling to do so? There is no need for you to admit to the obvious.

You can give your opinions about the matter all you want. No one is stopping you.

 

[Ajax]

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can give your opinions about the matter all you want. No one is stopping you.

That is a falsehood on your part. If needed I can provide articles for you as well.

You only have opinions because you are afraid to even learn what is and what is not evidence. I would be more than willing to go over the concept of scientific evidence with you. It is not hard to understand. You could understand it. But you will not like it. Creationists have no scientific evidence mainly because those that understand it no that they are wrong. Once you fully understand the idea creationists realize that they have to openly lie for Jesus to support that myth. Most decide to run away and pretend that the conversation never happened once they get that far.

 

[Laniakea]

That is a falsehood on your part. If needed I can provide articles for you as well.

You only have opinions because you are afraid to even learn what is and what is not evidence. I would be more than willing to go over the concept of scientific evidence with you. It is not hard to understand. You could understand it. But you will not like it. Creationists have no scientific evidence mainly because those that understand it no that they are wrong. Once you fully understand the idea creationists realize that they have to openly lie for Jesus to support that myth. Most decide to run away and pretend that the conversation never happened once they get that far.

Looks like your mind is made up.
Also, the word is "know", not "no".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Looks like your mind is made up.
Also, the word is "know", not "no".

Yep, I screwed up on my writing.

And I won't lecture to the air. I can show you how you are wrong. It is what you demand after all. I can show you how there is no scientific evidence at all for the flood. In fact you will probably show that yourself.

Are you ready to learn? It is a pity that some schools are so bad about educating people when it comes to the sciences. Far too many do not even learn the basics of science.

 

[Ajax]

The story of Noah's Aek is a myth. We should not expect it to be literally true. But since similar stories of the great flood exist in the mythologies of many ancient communities (Flood myth - Wikipedia), I would think there some truth to it.

Most nations have similar stories, which may have been orally transmitted since the melting of the ice age.

 

[Laniakea]

Yep, I screwed up on my writing.

And I won't lecture to the air. I can show you how you are wrong. It is what you demand after all. I can show you how there is no scientific evidence at all for the flood. In fact you will probably show that yourself.

Are you ready to learn? It is a pity that some schools are so bad about educating people when it comes to the sciences. Far too many do not even learn the basics of science.

Already got the science: Global Evidences of the Genesis Flood

 

[Subduction Zone]

Already got the science: Global Evidences of the Genesis Flood

You are joking right? You linked to a lying pseudoscience source. The ignorant fools there do not even know what the plural of "evidence" is.

 

[Laniakea]

You are joking right? You linked to a lying pseudoscience source. The ignorant fools there do not even know what the plural of "evidence" is.

Thanks for demonstrating being closed-minded on the topic.
To learn, you must be willing to learn.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Most nations have similar stories, which may have been orally transmitted since the melting of the ice age.

Or more recently too. There was a flood in the area, closer to Babylon, but the Hebrews copied their myth from the Babylonians, and it was big enough so that if one was on a boat in the middle of it one would not see land.

In my state in the eastern part we have the Channeled Scablands. Those do date to the end of the last glaciation. They were created by very scary floods.

Channeled Scablands - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks for demonstrating being closed-minded on the topic.
To learn, you must be willing to learn.

I am not close minded. I can prove to even you that they are a pseudoscience source.

 

[Laniakea]

I am not close minded. I can prove to even you that they are a pseudoscience source.

Let me guess, your "proof" comes from a liberal source that denies God even exists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let me guess, your "proof" comes from a liberal source that denies God even exists.

No. Why would I use such sources. My "proof" comes from AiG themselves. They do not hide the fact that they are a pseudoscience organization at all.

But for you to understand it we need to start your education on the basics of science. By the way, I will only quote scientific sources that have no opinion, at least voiced ones, on the existence of a God or not. Since there are quite a few Christian scientists in the US the odds are good that the information came from Christians.

Let's start with a simplified flow chart for the scientific method. Please note, this is not the one and only scientific method. It is just a good general outline. There is one step that everyone follows and that is the formation of a hypothesis, but it does not have to be in this exact order:

 

[Laniakea]

No. Why would I use such sources. My "proof" comes from AiG themselves. They do not hide the fact that they are a pseudoscience organization at all.

But for you to understand it we need to start your education on the basics of science. By the way, I will only quote scientific sources that have no opinion, at least voiced ones, on the existence of a God or not. Since there are quite a few Christian scientists in the US the odds are good that the information came from Christians.

Let's start with a simplified flow chart for the scientific method. Please note, this is not the one and only scientific method. It is just a good general outline. There is one step that everyone follows and that is the formation of a hypothesis, but it does not have to be in this exact order:

View attachment 90651

I'm glad that's not the only scientific method since a worldwide flood couldn't really be tested with an experiment.

Let me get serious here. I know you're a geology professor and have a respectable knowledge base when it comes to the subject. But I hope you realize that much of science is still based on theories that have been around for so long that scientists eventually decide to treat those theories as facts since they have been accepted for so long. However, being accepted doesn't mean true.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm glad that's not the only scientific method since a worldwide flood couldn't really be tested with an experiment.

Let me get serious here. I know you're a geology professor and have a respectable knowledge base when it comes to the subject. But I hope you realize that much of science is still based on theories that have been around for so long that scientists eventually decide to treat those theories as facts since they have been accepted for so long. However, being accepted doesn't mean true.

No, there are many ways to test a worldwide flood. But you just admitted that AiG is a pseudoscience organization since they claim that there is evidence for a flood. So which one is it?

And you do not even understand science enough to know what a theory is. Yes, the work that shows there is no flood is based upon theories. Here is what you do not know, in the sciences a theory is as good as it gets. If anything a theory outranks a law. A law never beats a theory, but there are laws that have been superseded by theories. Theories are not just facts, they have to explain all of the facts.


This is why you should really try to learn the basics of science. All facts are provisional. Scientists are one of the few groups honest enough to admit that.

In the sciences they know that people are not perfect. So when it comes to evidence people are forced to put their money where their mouths are. To even have evidence one needs to have a testable hypothesis first. By definition. I can show you multiple sources that will tell you that:

Scientific evidence consists of observations that support or oppose a scientific hypothesis or theory.

If you do not have a testable hypothesis then by definition you do not have evidence. You only have pseudoscience.

 

[Ajax]

The fallacy of Noah's story lies on the absurdity of the writings.

1) Impossible for Noah to built the Ark. Even today we can not built 450 feet wooden ships
2) The ark would be rotten by the time the flood begun.
3) Impossible for all the animals of land and sea to gather at Israel.
4) Impossible for all seeds of plants to gather at Israel.
5) Impossible for all animals including their necessities (e.g. food, waste space, aquaria for marine animals) to fit the ark. An estimated 15000 species are discovered each year which means that in order for them to survive today, they were all saved by Noah!
6) Impossible for Noah to establish the gender and the fertility of each animal. Some animals are hermaphrodite and also others live in colonies only (e.g. bees) .
7) Impossible for all the animals to enter the ark in one day.
8) Impossible for the ark not to sink like a brick the moment it was partially loaded.
9) Impossible for animals to survive inside the ark in the conditions described, for a year.
10) Impossible for such amount of water to exist in order cover Mt. Everest.
11) Impossible for the ark to sail into hurricane waves and also tsunamis caused by constant eruptions.
12) Impossible for 8 persons to feed and clean all the animals. It is estimated that a staff in excess of 50,000 would be needed to care for all creatures aboard.
13) Impossible for marine animals to survive in sea because of destroyed salinity, rock/earth to water ratio and boiling waters.
14) Impossible for the marine animals to survive in aquaria without constant mechanical refreshing of sea water, which actually did not exist.
15) Impossible for all the animals to survive inside the ark due to lack of ventilation.
16) Impossible for any tree, including an olive tree to have survived one year under volcanic, boiling waters.
17) Impossible to redistribute the animals and plants after disembarkation.
18) Impossible to carry the aquaria with all marine animals from Mt. Ararat to all lakes and sea.
19) Impossible for short-lived animals to survive.
20) Impossible for diseases to survive.
21) Impossible for any survivor be it human or animal to remain alive after disembarkation. Eventual starvation would kill everyone.
22) Impossible for the ethnic complexity found throughout the world to be derived from the five only flood survivors in the few centuries since that time. (the sons of Noah do not count).
23) Impossible for all humans to have died except the Noah family. Egyptian records show the dynasties of the pharaohs continued unbroken since 3100 BC. The flood was supposedly happened around 2345 BC.
24) Impossible for Noah to have or obtain such advance technology required for building the Ark, to live for 350 years afterwards and not to pass this technology to future generations. After the Ark, people returned to reed rafts and hollow logs for centuries.
25) Impossible for God to make mistakes as appears from being sorry for creating people.
26) Impossible for God not to be Omniscient and not to know that after few years people would be sinners again, therefore there was no point for the flood.
27) Impossible for God not to be Just and kill all animals and plants for no reason.

Gregg Easterbrook a Christian scientist in his 1997 book "Science and God: a warming trend" said, "Creationism is an incredible pain in the neck, neither honest nor useful, and the people who advocate it have no idea how much damage they are doing to the credibility of belief."

Each of the above main arguments has sub-folders enlisting additional arguments and of course there are arguments concerning theology and morality.
In short, there can be no average intelligence person who can still claim that the Noah's story as described in Genesis can be true. If God wanted to punish humans, he could just send a deadly human disease, instead of having to perform millions of miracles and wait for about 55-75 years for the Ark to be built. This way, he could also save the lives of the innocent animals and plants. But again this fairy tale was written by primitive, ignorant, goat herders.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No "races" arose after man left Africa. Dark skin protects against UV. But we also need Vitamin D. And dark skin interferes with that. So moving away from the equator meant that protection from skin cancer was not as important as making Vitamin D. We lost our dark pigmentation.


And did you read about cheetahs at all? I gave you a paper on them. If our population had ever been that small transplants would be easy. They are actually quite difficult.

All of the sciences tell us that there never was a flood. You know the silly claim that the sedimentary rocks are from the flood? We can endlessly show that to be wrong. I can show that to be wrong with a single picture:

View attachment 90597

At least when we are in the sun, our skin does darken somewhat as a reminder of our evolutionary past.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yep, I screwed up on my writing.

And I won't lecture to the air. I can show you how you are wrong. It is what you demand after all. I can show you how there is no scientific evidence at all for the flood. In fact you will probably show that yourself.

Are you ready to learn? It is a pity that some schools are so bad about educating people when it comes to the sciences. Far too many do not even learn the basics of science.

I think in part that field trips are more virtual now.

When I was in school we actually went to a dig site and saw things for ourselves as the teachers there explained and showed things.

 

[shunyadragon]

A megaflood that wiped out a civilization (but not the whole world nor all of humanity/animals). Many ancient texts mention such a flood.

This is simply not true. Other ancient texts DO NOT document a catastrophic world flood. they all refers to local flooding of river, tsunamis and earthquakes.

The thread began and devolved into trivial discussions of bear color neglecting the facts there is not only absolutely no evidence for such a flood, the flood is impossible, and the description of the Arc as a seaworthy ship is even impossible reflecting in the failures of the attempts to build such a monster today.